Originally posted by dvampire
Goku is a dead Sayian after this battle. How is ssj3/4 Goku going to beat Superman if he could barely push a building back in place in ssj4 or struggles to push a moutain apart? Superman lifts small moons with little effort, push a Pluto sized planet with light speed force going against him, and held a black hole in the palm of his hands. Superman hits him one time and the fight is over. Superman is faster, stronger, more durable, and has way better stamina. Superman wins.
Faster? Really? Lets take a look at goku pre supersayin, pre kayoken. Fighting at speeds invisible to the human eye. Pre kayoken. Basicly, goku in his weakest state. I can see a baseball moving at 90mph. So if you put that into perspective with gokus final power level, its easy to discern why Goku is definately not slower than superman. Stronger? Not really. Pushing planets is great, holding black holes open is great (except for the fact that on one occassian he had the assistance of green lantern, and was still struggling)
Yet superman was tossed by 2 of lex luthors lady guards? Regardless, this fact should not be heavily relied upon considering just becuase you can lift something very heavy, or hold an intense object, that somehow makes you immune to physical damage? (Elaborated on in a previous post) Sure superman is strong, very strong. I agree. Unfortunately, goku has more than enough strength to pound superman into submission. Could superman even touch goku? Seriously, could he? If he was dodgeing attacks at speeds so quick at a young level, what makes you think he couldent easily telegraph superman in combat? Is superman going to be punching at light speed?
Lets say he was. goku moves at the speed of thought, instantly responding to moves with the speed of thought (an incalculable variable, where as the speed of light is.)Techniques like afterimage. Moving short distances in an instant. And lets not forget the fact that Superman is an inferior fighter. Even if superman was stronger, this variable alone would put him at a big disadvangage as he would be worn down from missing, and being hit by chi, as well as normal attacks, too much. Its amazing when your punches cause the forces around you to crumble and ripple. Gokus stamina is on par with superman, supassing it in his finest hour. Surpassing it even in a lower supersayin state. And for the overkill, Goku absorbed the dragonballs in his final moment. This factor alone basicly ends the fight. Goku could destroy superman without this aid, but the fact that its their makes it absolute manslaughter. In this fight, all superman has is raw strength and stamina, and if your evenly matched stat wise (not that this fight is), but have nothing else to bring to the table, you will undoubtedly be defeated.
Just putting this out there to bust down the black hole feat.
First of all as I explained in an earlier post. Black holes do not have strength in the sense of the power to hit you. A black hole will never wind its fist up to hit you. So you are all silly to even argue this.
However if you want to even take it to that level. Superman is not as Strong as a Black hole because for one he cannot suck planets and matter into himself infinely as a black hole can.
He can also be hurt by things that are "weaker" than a black hole. This has been proven in many comic strips whenever you have seen Superman hurt. No character or villain in dc has the strength of a black hole, at least to my knowlege. Darkseids' omegabeams do not pact at the "strength" of a black hole behind them yet Superman still gets sent to his knees by them. Doomsday was not as strong as a black hole yet he still managed to kill the man of steel. Therefore you are all wrong on the black hole bs. until you counter me and proove that i am wrong on this.
Nothing less than a black hole can hurt superman is something you guys have said more than once just look at these pics.... these dont look like black holes.... 😉
http://supermanmegasite.com/pics/DoomsdayBattlePic1.jpg
http://www.thecomicshop.com.au/covers/comics/a/adventuresofsuperman-518-dc-nm.jpg
http://www.revolution.lv/i/art/5029-superman-01.jpg
Let me guess this pic is from an after Black hole event? Where somethign stronnger than a black hole came by?
And also. A black hole is not exactly an object of "strength" so superman holding open a black hole isn't exactly a strength test. A black hole is technically in a way a dimensional thing that traps light, and anything. So superman can hold open a dimension. So here's something to show that Goku is capable of what superman is-or at least my ATTEMPT at showing. In the episode "Feeding Frenzy" Gotenks (at super saiyan 3) has so much power, he literraly tears through a dimension just by screaming. goku is much stronger than gotenks. Therefore he could ALSO scream through a dimension. So if you want something equivalent, Goku maybe couldn't hold open a black hole, but he could basically CREATE his own. His own Hyperbolic time chamber, where nothing can escape (just like a black hole). Savvy?
Originally posted by SeerQris
Nothing less than a black hole can hurt superman is something you guys have said more than once just look at these pics.... these dont look like black holes.... 😉http://supermanmegasite.com/pics/DoomsdayBattlePic1.jpg
http://www.thecomicshop.com.au/covers/comics/a/adventuresofsuperman-518-dc-nm.jpg
http://www.revolution.lv/i/art/5029-superman-01.jpg
Let me guess this pic is from an after Black hole event? Where somethign stronnger than a black hole came by?
A fight that happen ten years ago. 🙄 Superman has been getting upgrades since his return, aswell as Doomsday. Superman wins. 😄
Originally posted by dvampire
A fight that happen ten years ago. 🙄 Superman has been getting upgrades since his return, aswell as Doomsday. Superman wins. 😄
Thats a dumb excuse man. And putting "superman wins" and that ridiculous smily after every post u make is pointless now. We know where u stand. And Those pics show superman getting wrecked by someone goku could obliterate in seconds. Goku Wins. 🙂 😄 😆
Originally posted by dvampire
A fight that happen ten years ago. 🙄 Superman has been getting upgrades since his return, aswell as Doomsday. Superman wins. 😄
Its neat that they like to give superman upgrades, just waiting for that upgrade that pervents him from getting hurt by anything less than a black hole, it seems you completely missed the point
TheQuincy & ExtraMision5555
Thank you.... I know I wasn't and idiot... I was waiting for someone to come along and slay cresh for the idiot statements he was saying to me..
I left him open for the pitiful fanboy he is...
the worst part of it is he thinks he is actually right....
Hes probably gonner come along and ask for evidence next....
Originally posted by TheQuincy
And also. A black hole is not exactly an object of "strength" so superman holding open a black hole isn't exactly a strength test. A black hole is technically in a way a dimensional thing that traps light, and anything. So superman can hold open a dimension. So here's something to show that Goku is capable of what superman is-or at least my ATTEMPT at showing. In the episode "Feeding Frenzy" Gotenks (at super saiyan 3) has so much power, he literraly tears through a dimension just by screaming. goku is much stronger than gotenks. Therefore he could ALSO scream through a dimension. So if you want something equivalent, Goku maybe couldn't hold open a black hole, but he could basically CREATE his own. His own Hyperbolic time chamber, where nothing can escape (just like a black hole). Savvy?
Is that scientific fact enough for you Cresh? Jesus just get off k.m.c and watch Smallville re-runs.
And still no proof has been presented.So if I show a picture of the Goku fight with raditz, before he even learned kaioken that'sll show Goku as being far too weak?
U seem to be asking for proof that Goku has handled something other than a black hole when that is proof that is not necassary, since we have already proven that superman can be hurt by thigns weaker than a black hole.
Do you agree with this or do you still think that nothing weaker than a black hole can hurt superman. If you still think that just say so, So i can find the smoking gun evidence for you, of Superman being hurt by something weaker than a black hole in his current state of "strongness" I know those pics are old I put them up all in fun. So just say the word cresh and I will show you that Superman Can be hurt by something weaker than a black hole even in his new upgraded state. I hope you reply to this instead of sidestep it like you have all my other claims. Keep this in mind. Whenever you sidestep an argument you lose credibility.
Originally posted by TheQuincyHardly, it just shows another theory about black holes. The theory that was being used earlier to disprove black holes talked about a black hole of infinite mass, (something that was impossible to exist in the first place, as infinite mass would have infinite gravity which would have infinite pull on an infinite amount of space, and since the universe is significantly less than an infinite size this form of a black hole would suck everything in instantly destroying everything). Now this one is "another dimension", two different theories of black holes. Next there's the theory about them being gateways to other parts in space connected to white holes.
Is that scientific fact enough for you Cresh? Jesus just get off k.m.c and watch Smallville re-runs.
And of course all of these are indeed theories and not proof.
A resonable theory is still an extreme amount of gravity that can effect even light. Not infinite, but really really high.
Smallville is not canon to the comics, different universe as it were, just as I cannot use precrisis superman as he is a different superman.
I'm also refraining from using Superman prime, even though that's a future version of Superman that has uber powers like precrisis . . .
Originally posted by SeerQrisAnd goku can be beaten by things weaker than planet busters. . . both have gotten stronger since the incidents where they died.
U seem to be asking for proof that Goku has handled something other than a black hole when that is proof that is not necassary, since we have already proven that superman can be hurt by thigns weaker than a black hole.
Originally posted by SeerQrisNo, I'm ususlly ignoring arguments that are so ridiculous that they really don't need to be addressed.
Do you agree with this or do you still think that nothing weaker than a black hole can hurt superman. If you still think that just say so, So i can find the smoking gun evidence for you, of Superman being hurt by something weaker than a black hole in his current state of "strongness" I know those pics are old I put them up all in fun. So just say the word cresh and I will show you that Superman Can be hurt by something weaker than a black hole even in his new upgraded state. I hope you reply to this instead of sidestep it like you have all my other claims. Keep this in mind. Whenever you sidestep an argument you lose credibility.
But since you insist I need to point out that saying pulling away something of extreme gravity is not a strength feat undermines Goku's best feats. As moving easily in high gravity is how our DBZ friends got stronger, that and weights on them.
Also, a black hole is not like a single punch to the face. That's like saying that once you resist the initial pull of the black hole once it's not going to pull on you again, rather than being a constant pull on you and your physical form. Maintaining your form and moving without being crushed in the high gravity is an exceptional feat of strength, durability and speed.
Originally posted by stunna1773Spirit bomb is slow building, and requires others to voulenterer their spirit energy. Generally in fights (at least the comic book versus section) this would qualify as outside interference. If this is allowed why wouldn't Superman be able to ask Parralax or the GL corps to help?
ight now i know who is better goku will win super spirit bomb superman bye bye superman game over in ur faces
A GL could form a sort of funnel tube and have the SB go through and be shot out back at Goku. . or they could just suck up the spirit bomb and goku's soul along with it. . .
Right now m head is pounding and ive 2 fractures in my face because some thug had to make himself feel big by sucking punching a 120 lbs guy so im gonna keep this kinda short
How strong is Goku and how strong is Superman?Superman being a monthly comic often has his strength fluctuate up and down the spectrum.I guarantee there have been more examples of Superman being hurt by "Building destroying" force than 2X black holes
How strong is Goku?Well when he was a child he was bullet proof and could throw a car and his power increased literally 10s of Millions of times over.Even with the WORST projection against Goku and the best for Post crisis-Superman Goku would ay LEAST be in his league
