Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
(i am responding to this post, couldent include it due to length, though)
Ok, i do like this post because its not mindless arguments, you have valid points.
On the other hand, heres what i have to say in response.
First off, Supermans heat rays would be useless against goku, innefective, moreso. For two reasons, the first being it would take alot of lazyness on gokus part to be hit by an eye laser. Goku has been dodgeing equivelants of eye lasers since the dawn of dragonball. Moreso in the sense of projectiles. Beam type Objects. Not only that, he has been dodgeing beams that are manipulable by the user. (Beams that change course after being fired.) Supermans eye lasers wouldent survive in the dbz universe, there are several foes capable of delivering much worse energy blasts. (Vegita effortlessly blowing holes in stadiums. [b]effortlessly. one out of several examples.)As far as this inconsistancy of goku struggling to split a mountian apart, superman has struggled to hold the daily planet globe up. But i chose not to use this becuase it is an inconsistancy and i would rather not get into that, becasue it happens.
And as far as speed goes, Goku is definately (at least) on supermans level. Once again i restate the fact that goku moves at the speed of thought. The afterimage techinque is the equivelant of a short range teleport. which is instant . Instant is an incalulable number, where as the speed of light calculable. I also remind you that once again goku has been fighting at speeds invisible to the human eye before even mastering the kayoken techinque. His level has grown exponentially since that day. Its hard to imagine the full potential of his speed in combat. Superman at the minimum, is not faster than goku. Infact -- hes slower. Im pertty sure teleportation is swifter than light speed. and im not too sure how useful flying at light speed would be in combat, whereas gokus after image has proven useful in combat. Fighting at high speeds is gokus playground.
Stamina wise, i cant really say superman has an advantage either. Gokus fight with frieza caused namek to colapse. Gokus fight with majin buu was an incredible test of strength and portrayed gokus staminous nature. Takeing Geographically altering blows and coming back unphazed (at one point goku was even outmatched, yet he still hung with him). Fighting at incaluclable speeds for incredible ammounts of time. And these are just two fights, one of them only being at a mere supersayin level 1.
Take in to account, once again i remind you, Superman is an inferior fighter. Goku unquestionably owns superman in combat due to his impecible knowledge of arts unfimiliar to superman. his sayin ancestory devoted itself to combat, and goku is no different. Could superman even hit goku? Goku has clearly displayed he is capable of reading attacks at incredible speeds, combind with the fact that he is allready a master of the arts, and Goku is incredibly powerful. Must i remind you he absorbed the dragonballs. Supermans only strength in this fight might be his stamina, but thats not going to do much if your opponent is as strong (and in my opinion, stronger) than you, and has more variaty in his possession than you, and is more than capable of dealing the blows neccessairy to take your stamina to a non existant state. [/B]
Superman is a great fighter on his own, and has fought very skilled fighters aswell. Hes also have been trained by Batman, WW, Mongul II, and is always fighting new foes, so he stays at the top of his game. Heat Vision will melt the skin off of any transformation of Goku. Superman is also far more powerful than Goku in strength, he beats him in speed, and he's far more durable than him, as he survived a star/planet destroying blast and black holes.
As for stamina Superman fought G.Zod for a week under a red sun, and he was still holding back. To add with that, Superman and Doomsday fought for a century in a war against Gog.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/442/max00137la.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/697/max00125ui.jpg
SSJ1 Goku goes down with a held back punch, ssj2 Goku goes down the same way, ssj3 doesn't have enough strength, speed, or stamina to take Superman on, and ssj4 Goku is even less than 3. Superman wins.🙂 😆
Originally posted by TheQuincyYou don't read or even think about what you or others say do you?
...so in conclusion. Superman is annihilated by Goku, and all of the super fanboys cry and weep for their fallen "hero". The smart members of k.m.c. say "told you so...queers"
Originally posted by SeerQrisBetter than anything from yours, we don't even get the benefits of pictures. We just get the equivilent of "It's goku! Of course he win's queers!"
Also your picture examples have by far been the only good piece of argument I have seen come from your mouth.
Originally posted by Hit_and_MissBecause he strong enough and fast enough to do it.
Dvamp give a reason why he could escape it...The fact that if krypton came back and he went to live on it he would lose all his powers... why??? cause krypton has a stronger gravity and theres no yellow sun....
Black holes have much greater gravities... yet he escapes.... PIS
Obviously, because he has dealt with them on multiple occasions.
Could we please stop seeing these "I don't like it so it's pis!" arguments?
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Dvamp give a reason why he could escape it...The fact that if krypton came back and he went to live on it he would lose all his powers... why??? cause krypton has a stronger gravity and theres no yellow sun....
Black holes have much greater gravities... yet he escapes.... PIS
Don't need to give a reason, as the scans I've showed explans itself. Superman was durable enough, strong enough, fast enough, and had the stamina to get himself out of a double black hole.
Superman isn't the only that has done a feat like this. Thanos survived a black hole aswell.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/197/history523gv.jpg
🙂
I'd like to see an excuse as to why human's in DBZ are allowed to exceed the physical capacity of the human muscle. . . because we completely ignore the fact that Muscles have limited curability and if you push it too hard it will tear.
But appearently this scientific principal of impossibility is acceptable, but not the one that involves a scientific theory.
Afterall why does one think that humans DON'T have the ability to lift tons? Heaven's knows it's not from lack of trying, its just lack of ability to succeed due to the way human muscles ARE. . .
Yup more ludicus comic book stories....
You probably believe flash could do this as well...
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd8zn.jpg
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Yup more ludicus comic book stories....You probably believe flash could do this as well...
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd8zn.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1482/jla89pg010ck.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5931/jla89pg025og.jpg
Indeed he can! Even though they made a slight mistake. 😄
Originally posted by Hit_and_MissTheir number uis wrong since he was moving millions of times the speed of light. . .
Yup more ludicus comic book stories....You probably believe flash could do this as well...
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd8zn.jpg
Or rather he basically froze time, by using the speedforce to remove the speed from everything in the area preformed the task and allowed it to move again by returning the speed.
No different from him "freezing" time to find a bullet fired by someone, disarmed the bullet (he caught it) and then allowed time to flow foreward slower than normal so he could find where the gunman was.
It's a form of time manipulation rather than JUST speed. So I don't see why he couldn't do that.
Originally posted by Hit_and_MissAnd you beleive that Muscles can exxceed their capacity?
Yup more ludicus comic book stories....You probably believe flash could do this as well...
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd8zn.jpg
The reason humans can't lift tons is because muscle tears, the very thing that they are made of can't stand up to that weight. That and the bones, ligiments etc. . . they tend to tear out of joint. Goku I can understand due to him not being human. But when you expect the human characters to be able to do half of what goku does, you're being sucked into your own blackhole argument.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And you beleive that Muscles can exxceed their capacity?The reason humans can't lift tons is because muscle tears, the very thing that they are made of can't stand up to that weight. That and the bones, ligiments etc. . . they tend to tear out of joint. Goku I can understand due to him not being human. But when you expect the human characters to be able to do half of what goku does, you're being sucked into your own blackhole argument.
Its a little thing called KI.... Ya see in gokus world... Like alot of manga/anime... everyone has energy.. The people don't have the mussels to lift tons but they have the KI to do it... Like fidel/krilin learning to use KI. Humans can learn to lift more via using the energy to lift...
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
(i am responding to this post, couldent include it due to length, though)
Ok, i do like this post because its not mindless arguments, you have valid points.
On the other hand, heres what i have to say in response.
First off, Supermans heat rays would be useless against goku, innefective, moreso. For two reasons, the first being it would take alot of lazyness on gokus part to be hit by an eye laser. Goku has been dodgeing equivelants of eye lasers since the dawn of dragonball. Moreso in the sense of projectiles. Beam type Objects. Not only that, he has been dodgeing beams that are manipulable by the user. (Beams that change course after being fired.) Supermans eye lasers wouldent survive in the dbz universe, there are several foes capable of delivering much worse energy blasts. (Vegita effortlessly blowing holes in stadiums. [b]effortlessly. one out of several examples.)As far as this inconsistancy of goku struggling to split a mountian apart, superman has struggled to hold the daily planet globe up. But i chose not to use this becuase it is an inconsistancy and i would rather not get into that, becasue it happens.
And as far as speed goes, Goku is definately (at least) on supermans level. Once again i restate the fact that goku moves at the speed of thought. The afterimage techinque is the equivelant of a short range teleport. which is instant . Instant is an incalulable number, where as the speed of light calculable. I also remind you that once again goku has been fighting at speeds invisible to the human eye before even mastering the kayoken techinque. His level has grown exponentially since that day. Its hard to imagine the full potential of his speed in combat. Superman at the minimum, is not faster than goku. Infact -- hes slower. Im pertty sure teleportation is swifter than light speed. and im not too sure how useful flying at light speed would be in combat, whereas gokus after image has proven useful in combat. Fighting at high speeds is gokus playground.
Stamina wise, i cant really say superman has an advantage either. Gokus fight with frieza caused namek to colapse. Gokus fight with majin buu was an incredible test of strength and portrayed gokus staminous nature. Takeing Geographically altering blows and coming back unphazed (at one point goku was even outmatched, yet he still hung with him). Fighting at incaluclable speeds for incredible ammounts of time. And these are just two fights, one of them only being at a mere supersayin level 1.
Take in to account, once again i remind you, Superman is an inferior fighter. Goku unquestionably owns superman in combat due to his impecible knowledge of arts unfimiliar to superman. his sayin ancestory devoted itself to combat, and goku is no different. Could superman even hit goku? Goku has clearly displayed he is capable of reading attacks at incredible speeds, combind with the fact that he is allready a master of the arts, and Goku is incredibly powerful. Must i remind you he absorbed the dragonballs. Supermans only strength in this fight might be his stamina, but thats not going to do much if your opponent is as strong (and in my opinion, stronger) than you, and has more variaty in his possession than you, and is more than capable of dealing the blows neccessairy to take your stamina to a non existant state. [/B]
Superman struggling with the Daily Planet Globe...? 😕 no2
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9692/strength4gk.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4708/09152005094607am9bt.jpg
Originally posted by Creshosk
It's a observational comment on your one sided biased attack on a feat using science as your weapon.
LOL thats the best thing you have said....Using Science as a weapon... I forgot BLIND FAITH is what we should have that supes will win...
"Don't bring your science facts round here... We don't like logical reasoning...."
Originally posted by Hit_and_MissActually it's visual faith. Goku has BLIND faith. . since Goku appearently doesn't need proof in order to win.
LOL thats the best thing you have said....Using Science as a weapon... I forgot BLIND FAITH is what we should have that supes will win...
Originally posted by Hit_and_MissMore like "Don't try to use scientific theory as fact around here, you don't understand what logical reasoning is."
"Don't bring your science facts round here... We don't like logical reasoning...."
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman is a great fighter on his own, and has fought very skilled fighters aswell. Hes also have been trained by Batman, WW, Mongul II, and is always fighting new foes, so he stays at the top of his game. Heat Vision will melt the skin off of any transformation of Goku. Superman is also far more powerful than Goku in strength, he beats him in speed, and he's far more durable than him, as he survived a star/planet destroying blast and black holes.As for stamina Superman fought G.Zod for a week under a red sun, and he was still holding back. To add with that, Superman and Doomsday fought for a century in a war against Gog.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/442/max00137la.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/697/max00125ui.jpg
SSJ1 Goku goes down with a held back punch, ssj2 Goku goes down the same way, ssj3 doesn't have enough strength, speed, or stamina to take Superman on, and ssj4 Goku is even less than 3. Superman wins.🙂 😆
(edit: oh, lol, the daily planet thing, maybe that wasnt the best example, but i was using it to, or atelast trying to show that sometimes comic feats contradict themselfs for the sake of storyline)
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Yes, i am well aware that superman has some training as far as fighting goes, but it would be fundamentally incorrect to think that he is superior, or even close to goku in this aspect. Goku devoted his life to training. Literally spending every possible moment outside of combat mastering new techinques. Superman is simply the lesser fighter, and not by a little, by alot. Heat Vision melting the skin off of Goku? are you sure? Vegitta Atomized Kuui, carelelssly. (Far before going supersayin. VERY far.) Gohan, with a broken arm, atomized Cell to the point where he could not recombind himself because their was nothing left. (A badly fatueged, and one armed gohan.) Keep in mind this is early on for one of them, and the other was very decreppid. Goku has taken shots of these equivelants and rose again. Not to mention, goku simply wouldent get hit by Supermans eye lasers, goku has been dodgeing these kind of techniques, and even absorbing them, for ages. The ki that runs through thier body allows them to absorb devistateing blows with ease. Faster than goku? I gave you my reasons why he would not be, in combat. this is not a relay race, this is a fight. Are we forgetting gokus final feat? Absorbing the dragonballs -- again i say, the fight would never get to this level, but in the event that it did, goku could simply wish Superman out of existance -- Goku is rediculously powerful, magical, even. Its almost unfair.(edit: oh, lol, the daily planet thing, maybe that wasnt the best example, but i was using it to, or atelast trying to show that sometimes comic feats contradict themselfs for the sake of storyline)
GT isn't cannon.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Yes, i am well aware that superman has some training as far as fighting goes, but it would be fundamentally incorrect to think that he is superior, or even close to goku in this aspect. Goku devoted his life to training. Literally spending every possible moment outside of combat mastering new techinques. Superman is simply the lesser fighter, and not by a little, by alot. Heat Vision melting the skin off of Goku? are you sure? Vegitta Atomized Kuui, carelelssly. (Far before going supersayin. VERY far.) Gohan, with a broken arm, atomized Cell to the point where he could not recombind himself because their was nothing left. (A badly fatueged, and one armed gohan.) Keep in mind this is early on for one of them, and the other was very decreppid. Goku has taken shots of these equivelants and rose again. Not to mention, goku simply wouldent get hit by Supermans eye lasers, goku has been dodgeing these kind of techniques, and even absorbing them, for ages. Faster than goku? I gave you my reasons why he would not be, in combat, this is not a relay race, this is a fight. Are we forgetting gokus final feat? Absorbing the dragonballs -- again i say, the fight would never get to this level, but in the event that it did, goku could simply wish Superman out of existance -- Goku is rediculously powerful, magical, even. Its almost unfair.(edit: oh, lol, the daily planet thing, maybe that wasnt the best example, but i was using it to, or atelast trying to show that sometimes comic feats contradict themselfs for the sake of storyline)
I agree with you on one thing, if Goku has the Dragon Balls and wish him away, he does win; with outside help though. Superman is just as good of a fighter as Goku, and has beaten well trained and skilled fighters himself. So hes not the lesser fighter at all. Again Heat Vision comes out fast, it doesn't take long to shoot out of his eyes like Gokus Kamehameha wave whould out of his hands. Heat Vision is hotter than stars; ssj4 Goku could barly take the heat from Nova Shinron who isn't that hot. I say about 5-6000 degrees of Heat Vision is enough to off ssj3/4 Goku, if not, Supes could always amp up the tempatures. Either way, Goku won't be able to block against it.
Speed, once again, Superman is able to move his body so fast that he Vibrates (phase) his body throw Doomsdays Lighting/Fire breath, and is able to vibrate his body invisible aswell. Hes also far faster than Goku in flight speed too, as ssj4 Goku could barely out race Omega Shinrons (Omega Shinron could barely beat an explosion made by ssj4 Goku energy blast too) energy blast, Superman has out raced an energy blast to it's target, and can travel faster than light speed.
Superman stronger than ssj3/4 Goku by aloooot. SSJ2 struggles to push a moutain apart, ssj3 isn't that much stronger than ssj2 as he still had a difficult time beating Kid Buu, and ssj4 Goku again struggles with pushing a building and lift a small piece of broken rock with people on it. Superman lifts small moons with little effort, push planets with light speed force going against him, and has held a black hole in his hands.
Superman's stamina is far above ssj3/4 Goku's too. SSJ3/4 Goku lose far too much energy and loses more as he throw energy blasts. Superman fought G.Zod for a week under a red sun, while still holding back, and fought in a war for a century with Doomsday against Gog.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2062/max00132nf.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9608/max00128aj.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5108/max000211rd.jpg
Superman beats Goku with ease.
