I have an idea for why it seemed that Mace fared better against Palpatine than Yoda. It slides a bit into EU territory, sorry.
In terms of just swordsmanship, Mace is better, although Palpatine is very good in his own right (he cut down three masters like wheat). Palpatine is more powerful with the Force, but Mace's edge is his style. Vaapad is so effective because it channels the Dark Side's power back at itself. It is thus highly effective at neutralising Dark Side users. The problem is that the Vaapad user is very likely to fall to the Dark Side themselves, so it's very dangerous to use. I'm not saying that no Dark Sider could ever defeat Mace, but he definately has an edge against them that other Jedi do not.
If Mace and Yoda fought, Yoda would win because he uses the Light.
General Zodiac: Also a good point.
Captain REX: Sorry, I can't buy that. If Palpatine faked it, that cheapens Anakin's part in the whole thing. He goes from being someone who determined the entire galaxy's fate to being someone who happened to be there and didn't make any difference. Since the movie is about Anakin, not Palpatine, it seems pretty obvious.
Anyway, Dooku won against Mace when they sparred, because at the time he was still a Jedi. Now that he's a Dark Sider, Mace would win for the reasons described above.
You didn't read my last post, did you? This movie is about ANAKIN, NOT Sidious.
Two ways to look at it:
1) Mace defeated Sidious and Anakin's decision is the ONLY reason Sidious wasn't killed. If Anakin had got held up, the Jedi would have lived and the Empire would have never existed. Anakin's actions determine the entire galaxy's fate.
2) Sidious didn't need Anakin at all. If Anakin had got held up, he'd have just killed Windu anyway. The fact that Anakin does show up doesn't really make any difference.
Which one seems more likely?
You can say 'Sidious faked it Cuz he knew Ani would stop Mace and after that his journeu to da DARK SIDE would be complete' til you're blue in the face. The fact remains that Anakin is the focus here, and the only way he can be that is if Mace defeated Sidious and Anakin's actions are what made the difference.
Simple as.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
You didn't read my last post, did you? This movie is about ANAKIN, NOT Sidious.Two ways to look at it:
1) Mace defeated Sidious and Anakin's decision is the ONLY reason Sidious wasn't killed. If Anakin had got held up, the Jedi would have lived and the Empire would have never existed. Anakin's actions determine the entire galaxy's fate.
2) Sidious didn't need Anakin at all. If Anakin had got held up, he'd have just killed Windu anyway. The fact that Anakin does show up doesn't really make any difference.
Which one seems more likely?
You can say 'Sidious faked it Cuz he knew Ani would stop Mace and after that his journeu to da DARK SIDE would be complete' til you're blue in the face. The fact remains that Anakin is the focus here, and the only way he can be that is if Mace defeated Sidious and Anakin's actions are what made the difference.
Simple as.
Try and undestand Chilled Monkey's point here. Clearly he knows what he's talking about. He is not, in any way insinuating that Mace is the greatest force practitioner in this history of the galaxy. he is merely saying Windu is a major force to be reckoned wtih.
Although I am a strong advocate of the Sith, after watching the scene again (10 times in fact), i bitterly admit Palpatine was bested. In this instance, Windu was superior. It is a bitter reality, but a fact never the less. Initiall, Windu was losing ground, but as Vaapad flowed through Mace he felt hte very shatterpoint of the Dark Side: It was indeed trust in Anakin. That is why Palpatine slowly loses ground. Even his Sith lightning could not save him in such an offset position. Just remember, he is not saying Windu is superior overall, but merely that in this close lightsabre combat, Mace is a powerful Jedi. Nobody can dispute that. I suggest Jango Fat listens to Chilled Monkey, he clearly knows more than you.
Originally posted by Valar Melkor
Try and undestand Chilled Monkey's point here. Clearly he knows what he's talking about. He is not, in any way insinuating that Mace is the greatest force practitioner in this history of the galaxy. he is merely saying Windu is a major force to be reckoned wtih.Although I am a strong advocate of the Sith, after watching the scene again (10 times in fact), i bitterly admit Palpatine was bested. In this instance, Windu was superior. It is a bitter reality, but a fact never the less. Initiall, Windu was losing ground, but as Vaapad flowed through Mace he felt hte very shatterpoint of the Dark Side: It was indeed trust in Anakin. That is why Palpatine slowly loses ground. Even his Sith lightning could not save him in such an offset position. Just remember, he is not saying Windu is superior overall, but merely that in this close lightsabre combat, Mace is a powerful Jedi. Nobody can dispute that. I suggest Jango Fat listens to Chilled Monkey, he clearly knows more than you.
Thank you very much.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Palpatine was weak, or Mace was more powerful or anything like that as Valar Melkor pointed out. I'm just saying how it reads to me.
I also leave the theatre (all 5 times) thinking the same thing. There was NO indication what so ever that palps was baiting anakin by faking a loss to Windu. And Chilled monkey has a great point here. If palps was faking it, then it really does cheapen Anakins role even further.
I am already of the opinion that Anakins role in the destruction of the jedi was small at best. The clones, and order 66 did most of the work. Lets not diminish anakins role in the movie completely by saying that he actually didn't even save palps from destruction. I just can't get behind the idea that the main character in the movie was totally unimportant, and unnecessary to the outcome of the movie in any way. We have to at least give Anakin a small swing role, by being the one that saved Palps from death, and allowed the empire to continue.
BTW: Just because Windu beat palps, doesn't mean he's stronger, remember that. You can still think palps is stronger. I personally think that Qui gon is stronger then Maul, but he lost. Yoda is stronger then palps, but because of enviroment and bad luck, couldn't beat him. I think that Obi wan is better then Dooku, but he lost both times. And lastly, Anakin is stronger then Obi wan, but he lost the duel. Just because someone loses a fight, doesn't mean they are weaker. Many things factor in to a star wars duel...
Mace was a fool. The 3 Jedi Masters he took to assist him in the Chancellor's arrest were well experienced at fighting multiple opponents armed with blasters---Not a single opponent armed with a lightsabre and with the powers and fighting style the likes of which they've never seen. BOTTOM LINE: They were overwhelmed by deadly simplicity.