no, by default he's the one that will bring ballance to the Force.
Never was there any mentioning of him having to be the best Jedi in order to do this and he clearly wasn't. He's a good pilot and swordsman yes, but he has a temper, Jedi don't have that.
And yes, you DO have to give that "machine bullshit"! You just missed the entire point of the star wars movies! Anakin was the one that brought balance, not Vader.
As OB1 says "he's more machine now than human...", as far as we know only humans can use the Force thanks to the midichlorians. So a machine can't use the Force, and Vader clearly is more of that than human
i dont think vader would be even close to the agility of grievous. grievous was completly mechanical apart from some organs. his entire body was designed for agility. vader however was designed so that the mechanical parts would allow the organic to survive, his legs are half and half, his thigh strength wouldnt come close to grievous'. grievous wasnt force sensitice so his organic tissue could be stripped with no negitive combat effects, vaders living tissue needed to be conserved to allow him to maintian his force abilities.
grievous was built as a droid supporting a cunning sentient. vader was a powerful force user that was patched up with cybernetics. they could have overhalled him like grievous but hed lose almost all his force powers. not a viable option when hes supposed to be a sith lord. my opinion anyway.
vader would have been stronger had he not had his accident. he told luke that "together we can overthrow the emperor" not "i can overthrow the emperor and you can join me" i dont think intention is a problem, he was ready to kill palpatine in ep 3 so he obviously doesnt have any serious emotional ties to him. plus i think his mechanical nature makes him alot more suceptible to force lightening. in ep 3 he hadnt reached his potential and wasnt the strongest force user, and after that he could never reach it due to his injuries. thats how i always saw it anyway.
Originally posted by yerssot
no, by default he's the one that will bring ballance to the Force.
Never was there any mentioning of him having to be the best Jedi in order to do this and he clearly wasn't. He's a good pilot and swordsman yes, but he has a temper, Jedi don't have that.And yes, you DO have to give that "machine bullshit"! You just missed the entire point of the star wars movies! Anakin was the one that brought balance, not Vader.
As OB1 says "he's more machine now than human...", as far as we know only humans can use the Force thanks to the midichlorians. So a machine can't use the Force, and Vader clearly is more of that than human
no no no...thats complete crap. The gay ass midicholrian crap is a ratio, NOT a size based count, otherwise EVERYONE bigger than yoda would more powerful...so there goes that theory. As far as being more machine than man, OB1 was trying to keep luke angry at vader and wanting to defeat him. Just cause he has mechanical limbs, PARTIAL mechanical limbs, doesnt make him less of a person.
In that case, if you see a guy, say a war veteran, with no legs and a missing arm in a wheelchair, are you gonna say he's more machine than man? Same princable. They both use types of machines to be mobile and get around. Anakin/Vader was the most powerful force user ever, he just lost both fights due to emotion, in OB1's case - blinding fury/hatred,and in Lukes case, as odd as it seems - a father's love. He could have killed luke whenever he wanted. He displayed that on Bespin. Did you notice he didnt even touch luke until luke tapped his arm, then 4 seconds later he lops his had off. He could have hit Luke with that throwing saber thing had he wanted, but he just wanted him down and wanted to look good in from of palps. He would hav owned GG with force powers rather than just agility...he's just smarter than that. heres my list for ya:
1. Anakin/Vader
2.Luke
3.Sidious
4.Yoda
5.OB1
6. Mace
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
heres my list for ya:1. Anakin/Vader
2.Luke
3.Sidious
4.Yoda
5.OB1
6. Mace
How is Yoda 4th? He should be first. Does no one on these mindless boards take into consideration that Yoda, at death, is over, what was it? 900? This "Chosen one" stuff is complete and utter crap, you can have a million midiclohirans and not have ANY experience. But Yoda, he's been on the highest order of the Jedi Masters for well over 8 centuries, that's GOT to say something. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, just stating the obvious.
Originally posted by SS_181st_Snow
How is Yoda 4th? He should be first. Does no one on these mindless boards take into consideration that Yoda, at death, is over, what was it? 900? This "Chosen one" stuff is complete and utter crap, you can have a million midiclohirans and not have ANY experience. But Yoda, he's been on the highest order of the Jedi Masters for well over 8 centuries, that's GOT to say something. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, just stating the obvious.
I can see why you would say that BUT...who did Yoda lose to? Sidious.
Also i read somewhere in a magazine that Sidious was 200% more powerful that yoda and Anakin was 20% stronger that Sidious. Then it was said by someone in the Lucas camp, maybe big G himself, that at the time of ROTJ Luke was the strongest force user. THATS what i based that on.
"if so powerful he is, then why kicked was his ass?"
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I can see why you would say that BUT...who did Yoda lose to? Sidious.
Also i read somewhere in a magazine that Sidious was 200% more powerful that yoda and Anakin was 20% stronger that Sidious. Then it was said by someone in the Lucas camp, maybe big G himself, that at the time of ROTJ Luke was the strongest force user. THATS what i based that on."if so powerful he is, then why kicked was his ass?"
What complete and utter bullshit. The fight between Yoda and Sidious, Sidious won but only because the side of the senate pod Sidious was on had railings. Yoda would beat Palpatine on flat ground.
Not only that, stop making things up. Oh and stop beimg an Anakin fanboy. "i read somewhere", where? In the cesspit that passes for your mind?
first off *****, i have better things to do than waste my time away being a "fanboy", noob. What would i POSSIBLY have to gain, on a INTERNET FORUM, by making shit up? Actually, someone posted that on here FROM A MAGAZINE, and then after seeing it here, i went to go find the magazine that it was stated in. And I'm not the only person to hear of that either.
Before you try to get up and sit at the grown up table sweetheart, find out what YOU'RE talking about first. Since you seem to think YOU'RE on such a higher intellectual plateau, maybe you should look in to getting some common sense to go along with your smart ass mouth.
Anakin wasn't the most powerful force user. He was the chosen one. The youngling who says "master skywalker, there's too many of them" could have driven a lightsaber through sidious at the moment that he was shooting lightning at mace. That wouldn't have made him the most powerful, just the one who destroyed the sith and brought balance to the force. Anakin was good. I think the duel proves at least to a point that Obi Wan was better. He won, not only once, but several time if you count the deleted scenes. He never even came all that close to losing. He had a much easier time with Anakin than Sidious did with Mace. Yoda was prob. more powerful than any of them really. Which really makes me wonder, why run away and hide? at the very least obi and yoda should have helped the Rebel Alliance. I mean, a Jedi or two can go a long way in battles against clone troopers!
But like PVS said or maybe it was Ush, its like tennis, the best one doesn't always win. It the bonus features, Nick Gilliard said Anakin was a level 9 as far as swordsmanship while OB1 was and 8, being meaning that anakin was better. OB1 got down off his high horse to tell Anakin he was stronger and wiser...GRANTED, i would say that "Anakin" was or would become more powerful than "Vader", but at that point Ob1 acknowledged he was in fact better, as Qui Gon did to him, and i don't believe that to be smoke blown up their asses. Everyone rants on about the fact that Yoda is like 850 years old and has been a practitioner of the force for that long....but what about the fact that he was bested by someone far younger? And then they wanna say "Yoda woulda won on a level ground fight." BUT THATS HOW THEY STARTED OUT!!!! Yoda wouldn't have ran away, or "gone into exile", if he didn't know that he couldn't win. Ob1 beat Anakin with EXPERIENCE, not power or skill. I guess some people can classify experience as skill, but i mean skill as far as using the force. GL said BEFORE the movie even came out, that at the time of Ep3, Anakin is more powerful that OB1, but OB1 has more.......thats right, EXPERIENCE. That was actually a big topic on here for a few months.
Everyone wants to say "oh where did you see or hear this?", as a way to try, NOT to prove their point, but to DISprove my point. But how many magazines, tv interviews, web docs, regular documentaries, news articles, and special features have mentioned Star Wars? COUNTLESS amounts. So to pin point exactly where you heard or read something MONTHS ago, is not only virtually impossible, but it's ludicrous to even conceive that notion. Now i believe what i believe about the ranking of the most powerful force users, and thats all. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion until GL comes out and gives his own "official" list.
But yes i see what you're saying about them helping the rebels and how that would have helped, but something you stated yourself is...yoda's in hiding, and its for a reason. He said himself that he failed and must hide.
But if they did stay with the rebels, the emperor and Vader would have felt the "tremors in the force" that would be created by their presence. Yoda was safe on Degobah due to all the life forms that have the force flowing thru them, and OB1 was safe on Tatooine due to the fact that Anakin..oops i mean Vader, hates that place due to sand, his slave childhood, his mothers death, etc.
Ah, Darth Subjekt. I see the unreasoning side of the Force is still strong with you.
I can see why you would say that BUT...who did Yoda lose to? Sidious.
Uh, ROTS script says Yoda pwned Sidious in lightsaber combat in under a few minutes. This scene wasn't shown in the final version, but it still happened, hence why Sidious was saberless at a certain point. Also, Yoda redirected Sidious' Force lightning at point blank range, defeating Sidious in the energy tug of war. Yoda simply didn't have a handhold at that point. Falling down that far and without having a lightsaber he could not reasonably climb back up and finish the fight. It was circumstance, not true skill on Sidious' part. Accept this and move on.
Also i read somewhere in a magazine that Sidious was 200% more powerful that yoda and Anakin was 20% stronger that Sidious.
Force potential, not overall power. This is not DBZ; characters do not have power levels. GL gave a ballpark figure on Anakin's Force power potential because it's something we'll never see. He got pwned by Obi-Wan, whom he couldn't defeat in a Force push match. Now, Dooku whupped Obi in Force powers (In ROTS, he choked him easily) and Anakin couldn't defeat Obi-Wan in Force powers. SO by your logic, Dooku >Obi-Wan = Anakin > Yoda. Right?
Uh, wrong.
Then it was said by someone in the Lucas camp, maybe big G himself, that at the time of ROTJ Luke was the strongest force user. THATS what i based that on.
"if so powerful he is, then why kicked was his ass?"
ROTJ Luke is the strongest Force user? LMFAO!
Is this why he writhed and suffered under Sidious' lightning while Yoda caught it with his BARE HANDS? Please... don't be silly.
Ok, can we cut out the bashing and flaming please?
And logic or otherwise, GL has confirmed that Vader became less powerful with the Force due to his cybernisation, so there it is.
And it is intimated that the Chosen One is indeed prophecised to be the most powerful force user, because that is how QGJ recognised him.
1.) Anakin
2.) Sidious
3.) Yoda
4.) Obi-Wan
5.) Luke
The only reason every Jedi known to the Star Wars galaxy isn't between Obi-Wan and Luke is because they're either ranked higher or they all died. I personally think Luke is pathetic. Anakin was the strongest Force user ever and his son was barely trained. There's no way Luke would have stood up to any half-decent Jedi/Sith. Why do you think the Emperor whooped his a$$? Whoever has Luke ranked higher than the Emperor seriously needs to watch the movies again.