Well, like I said before, I'm sure much of it is the use of super powers, but even with superpowers you can't survive a 10,000 year war with forces as powerful or more powerful than you are unless you have some well thought out battle techniques. And after 10,000 years it's almost a sure bet that Superman trained in H2H with Wonder Woman. We're talking about 10,000 years with one of the greatest H2H combatants in a constant war zone...that's more up close battle experience than 1,000 Punishers.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
People will always refuse to accept a victory against Superman thats why his threads go on so long
hahaha...I do believe I've been accused of being a Superman fanboy! Go through my responses to all the other Superman threads and then come back and still see if that's true...
True...but I'm not one of those people but I still say that Superman is being underrated on this thread, especially when you compare it to the responses on the WW vs. Punisher thread.
Superman beat Zod using very impressive H2H techniques that he specifically said he learned from WW and Batman. Zod, like Punisher, a military man with formal millitary training...and a lot more of it than Punisher. That's why I say his H2H is underrated.
Supes sans powers has too much adjusting to do in combat. The adjustments to feeling pain, slower reflexes, slower thought processing (due to his metabolism being so much slower minus his metaprotein), he'd be at a disadvantage.
Frank would own Clark Kent.
Also, battle experience will only get you so far. Even Achilles fell to a relative rookie. 10,000 years in a time chamber using your super powers doesn't prepare you for fighting in a powerless, mortal state against a seasoned remorseless killer.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Thing is the thread implies that he's thrown into a fight without powers with Punisher. It doesn't say anything about him having time to acclimate to his new condition which would be a huge advantage to Punisher.
Ah, now THAT is think is a valid point. You and Ill (I think) mentioned that Superman would have to get used to pains he'd never felt before. That's definitely something that would work in Punisher's favor. But you'd also have to consider that Superman has one of the strongest wills in the business. He was beaten to death before, so he knows a thing or two about pain. I think his will to win will supercede the fact that he'll get hurt a lot easier than ever before.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Supes sans powers has too much adjusting to do in combat. The adjustments to feeling pain, slower reflexes, slower thought processing (due to his metabolism being so much slower minus his metaprotein), he'd be at a disadvantage.Frank would own Clark Kent.
Also, battle experience will only get you so far. Even Achilles fell to a relative rookie. 10,000 years in a time chamber using your super powers doesn't prepare you for fighting in a powerless, mortal state against a seasoned remorseless killer.
Originally posted by illadelph12I hate when people post my thoughts before I do 🙁
Supes sans powers has too much adjusting to do in combat. The adjustments to feeling pain, slower reflexes, slower thought processing (due to his metabolism being so much slower minus his metaprotein), he'd be at a disadvantage.Frank would own Clark Kent.
Also, battle experience will only get you so far. Even Achilles fell to a relative rookie. 10,000 years in a time chamber using your super powers doesn't prepare you for fighting in a powerless, mortal state against a seasoned remorseless killer.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Supes sans powers has too much adjusting to do in combat. The adjustments to feeling pain, slower reflexes, slower thought processing (due to his metabolism being so much slower minus his metaprotein), he'd be at a disadvantage.Frank would own Clark Kent.
Also, battle experience will only get you so far. Even Achilles fell to a relative rookie. 10,000 years in a time chamber using your super powers doesn't prepare you for fighting in a powerless, mortal state against a seasoned remorseless killer.
I think those are fair points, but he's also fighting an opponent a lot slower than the type he's normally used to fighting, so it would be relative. Also remember that Clark has been powerless several times, so he's not a total stranger to the world of mortality.
Originally posted by K3VIL
Achilles fell to a rookie?
Maybe you should check the history once more.
Achilles was stubbed in his heel from arrows.Long range, catched on surprise action.
Achilles in battle was not only a top fighter but invulnerable.
Superman fightning for 10'000 years means:
He achieved hth fight skills that will make Frank looking like a newbie.
He achieved experience to what his dead, penance, pain and so on, so with or without powers he'll show the Punisher he's still a Superman.
Yeah, Achilles fell to a rookie.
Depending on what version of the Iliad you read, Prince Alexander (or more commonly, Paris), who had no battle experience whatsoever, shot Achilles in the heel and he died from the wound. This is the same Achilles that ran through batallions of Trojans with archers firing arrows at him from all directions and took out Memnon and Penthesilia the Amazon.
Experience is good, but it doesn't guarantee a victory.
He shot Achilles with a sneak attack. It's basically analogous to Punisher sniping Batman, despite Batman being able to dodge hails of bullets from dozens of mob gunmen. It's not a battle feat by Paris...he just sniped an unprepared Achilles.
There were multiple versions of the Iliad, but in all of them, Homer made it pretty clear that Paris was something of a punk for doing it.
Let's not ignore the fact that Superman has been rendered powerless many times before, so it's not like losing his powers yet again is going to be a completely new experience that will leave him in some helpless state of shock and disorientation.
And even when he is fully powered, he has still felt pain. Combat with other people on his power level certainly has an element of pain. Getting beaten to death by Doomsday was no picnic. Various energy blasts have hurt him.
Superman is no stranger to pain; he just doesn't encounter it while performing mundane activities like we lesser mortals do.
As far as this fight goes, if he doesn't take Frank seriously enough from the beginning, then he'll get his head handed to him. But if he has the right attitude, he could definitely win.
Originally posted by illadelph12
So basically, without his powers, he's like Tombstone, but he's a boyscout that has to adjust to feeling pain, thinking, healing and reacting much more slowly than usual.Frank would pwned him. One good kick to the nuts and Clark feels a pain he's never felt before, and Frank can exert enough force to break a powerless Kal El's neck. Batman manages to toss Supes around on occasion with his powers, I think Frank can manage to do it sans his powers completely.
[And please, no one use that Superman 2 reference in this thread where powerless Clark (Christopher Reeves; RIP) got slapped up by a drunken redneck in a diner. ]
read the JLA series "Foreign Bodies"....and Supes will explain to u as he did to Kobra, how hes no stranger to pain. superman's mind in kobra's body is assaulted then beats kobra in batman's body.
Originally posted by demigawd
He shot Achilles with a sneak attack. It's basically analogous to Punisher sniping Batman, despite Batman being able to dodge hails of bullets from dozens of mob gunmen. It's not a battle feat by Paris...he just sniped an unprepared Achilles.There were multiple versions of the Iliad, but in all of them, Homer made it pretty clear that Paris was something of a punk for doing it.
Agreed.
I was just using it as an example that even the greatest, most 'experienced' of warriors can make a mistake and fall, regardless of how much experience they had. Achilles was the greatest warrior to live, and was 'invulnerable', yet he let his guard down in a combat situation and got killed by someone unworthy to even clean his loincloth.
I'm just saying all the experience in the world won't stop you from becoming a martyr.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Agreed.I was just using it as an example that even the greatest, most 'experienced' of warriors can make a mistake and fall, regardless of how much experience they had. Achilles was the greatest warrior to live, and was 'invulnerable', yet he let his guard down in a combat situation and got killed by someone unworthy to even clean his loincloth.
I'm just saying all the experience in the world won't stop you from becoming a martyr.
I agree with that. But that logic wouldn't be applicable to this thread (though it's great for the Batman/Punisher thread) because Superman and Punisher are, according to board rules, aware that they are fighting each other and on even ground. That's where I believe Superman's 10,000 years of experience will overcome the initial discomfort of "mortality" and allow him to stay calm enough to pull out a hard fought win against Punisher.