Originally posted by Sin I AMSentient Robots don't have souls. Doesn't matter if Surfer is vastly more powerful (I disagree). He doesn't have a way to put DM down. I'm not saying Surfer loses but simply he's not winning. Surfer can't restore himself from total annihilation (disintegration) like DM can.
Well this whole soul, God, tp via matter manipulation argument for one. Unless otherwise stated they have souls its not that foreign a concept to grasp. Everything literally everything DM has done Surfer has done on a grander scale Manhattan just does not have the feats. He couldn't even prevent war between two countries. Surfer has saved entire planets from Galactus. You're reaching
Originally posted by Nibedicus
If you think that, you need to brush up on your reading as the definition of soul has changed throughout history and thru many cultures. That's not even counting the many different interpretations in fiction. It's funny how you like to tout your "intelligence" and yet seem completely ill-informed of such an elementary concept.Start here:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/555149/soul
Tho this is simply semantics that is unrelated to the debate.
So I will end it here before you attempt to take this debate on a tangent in order to divert attention from your bad logic.
Before proceeding further, however, I will need you to sign off on your argument exactly so we can avoid goalposts moving.
You argument is as follows:
1) A divine being is needed for souls to exist.
2) There is no divine being in the Watchman Universe, thus, characters there have no souls.
3) Characters whose (in their native universes) affect another's mind/soul cannot affect Watchman characters as they have no mind/soul.
4) Watchman character's "mind" can only be affected via physical manipulation of the brain.
All formal definitions of soul mean exactly the same thing; they don't contradict each other at all. It's a ghost like being that's inside the being who possesses one. Whether the definition has changed over time is debatable but irrelevant. We only care about the definition NOW.
Yes, that is my argument exactly.
Originally posted by h1a8
DM can teleport, phase through, and reform at will. Those tactics won't work.
If skyfather/galactus level Uni-Lord couldn't prevent Surfer from absorbing him, I doubt Dr. Manhattan can.
Or, Surfer just floods the arena with Tachyons. He's manipulated chronal energies before, so he can do this.
Originally posted by h1a8
Sentient Robots don't have souls. Doesn't matter if Surfer is vastly more powerful (I disagree). He doesn't have a way to put DM down. I'm not saying Surfer loses but simply he's not winning. Surfer can't restore himself from total annihilation (disintegration) like DM can.All formal definitions of soul mean exactly the same thing; they don't contradict each other at all. It's a ghost like being that's inside the being who possesses one. Whether the definition has changed over time is debatable but irrelevant. We only care about the definition NOW.
Yes, that is my argument exactly.
What does sentient robots have to do with your argument.
Originally posted by cdtmDM can teleport away, multiply, grow, and phase. surfer can't absorb him. Tachyons don't harm DM just interfere with his future vision. Also Tachyons are a fictitious energy, made up from the mind. Therefore, we don't know if Surfer can create it. Let's not use a no limit fallacy to what Surfer can do. After all, he couldn't create crunch energy.
If skyfather/galactus level Uni-Lord couldn't prevent Surfer from absorbing him, I doubt Dr. Manhattan can.Or, Surfer just floods the arena with Tachyons. He's manipulated chronal energies before, so he can do this.
Originally posted by Sin I AMTp (soul Tp) doesn't work on sentient robots cause they have no soul.
What does sentient robots have to do with your argument.
The beings in the watchmen universe had no God (just like our universe...maybe) and thus the beings were just sophisticated structures of matter (like sentient robots).
Originally posted by h1a8
DM can teleport away, multiply, grow, and phase. surfer can't absorb him. Tachyons don't harm DM just interfere with his future vision. Also Tachyons are a fictitious energy, made up from the mind. Therefore, we don't know if Surfer can create it. Let's not use a no limit fallacy to what Surfer can do. After all, he couldn't create crunch energy.
Tachyons are associated with time travel. Blue Beetle prevented black beetle from time jumping by covering his body in a tachyon field.
And Surfer froze time, proving he could manipulate tachyons.
Originally posted by cdtm
Tachyons are associated with time travel. Blue Beetle prevented black beetle from time jumping by covering his body in a tachyon field.And Surfer froze time, proving he could manipulate tachyons.
Wrong! Tachyons are hypothetical particles that don't exist anywhere but in certain works of fiction (not all). Surfer never froze time. Where do you get that from? Even if he did, then the conclusion that he used tachyons to do it doesn't necessarily follow.
Originally posted by cdtm
Tachyons are associated with time travel. Blue Beetle prevented black beetle from time jumping by covering his body in a tachyon field.And Surfer froze time, proving he could manipulate tachyons.
It was stated by DM that a Tachyon burst possibly was what was limiting his precognition. Not proving that it limited and reduced any other of his powers.