Dr. strange VS. Dr. fate & and current scarlet witch& zatanna

Originally posted by long pig
Chaos magic isn't Catastrophy magic, but they do get confused with each other a lot, that's why it was a big debate between me and some others when Strange told the Avengers that Chaos magic doesn't exist.
He also says Hex's don't exist either.

Now, what exactly is Wanda using to be able to do what she's been doing?? I have an idea that it's something to do with those shards from mephisto. That's why I though House of M stood for house of mephisto at first. But....guess not.

Fate has a great chance against Strange, but not a prepped Strange, no.

Originally posted by long pig
Chaos magic isn't Catastrophy magic, but they do get confused with each other a lot, that's why it was a big debate between me and some others when Strange told the Avengers that Chaos magic doesn't exist.
He also says Hex's don't exist either.

Now, what exactly is Wanda using to be able to do what she's been doing?? I have an idea that it's something to do with those shards from mephisto. That's why I though House of M stood for house of mephisto at first. But....guess not.

Fate has a great chance against Strange, but not a prepped Strange, no.

Well if it aint chaos magic or hex magic, it gotta be something, and Strange doesnt know aobut it. That gives Scarlet an advantage right there alone. Strange is just letting his pride get in the way of admitting that theres a form of magic that he doesnt know aobut. Scarlet has been around for over 30 years and Marvel has said it to be chos or hex magic. Then all of a sudden when Strange dont know whats going on, he says it doesnt exist? Im not buying it. Apparently he still hasnt found a way to stop whatever she does, so it must be something.

Lol. At first, I though House of M stood for House of Marvel. But i agree, there has to be some reason why all of a sudden her powers are the way they are. UNLESS its a secondary mutation, like Beast Iceman, Black Tom etc.

LP, you havent said anything that a prepped Strange would do thats actually going to beat Fate or and the others. Yes he has 1,000 of books in which to conjure up spells, but Fate has Nabu yapping in his ear telling him billions of years worth of magic. Everyone here is adept at what they do. Maybe except Fate without the helmet lol. Strange hasnt even found a wat to beat Scarlet Witch yet. I just think theres too many distractions and counters for Strange to win. Just trying to hold off one opponent will take alot out of him.

It's probably not magic at all, that's why he knew nothing about it. Or it's just some plot deal, kinda like the Onslaught saga, where was Strange the whole time??

Wanda can't control her powers, therefore she'd be just as dangerous to her teammates as she would Strange, that's why I don't count her as a factor.

With prep, like I said, he can create illusions, conjure millions of demons, beg higher beings for power, create shields that can't be penetrated, he's amped his physical being before with magic, basically creating a magic armor.

He has too much shit to work with, you say Fate has books, he does, but he doesn't have prep here, Strange gets prep.

Zatanna is taken out without a thought, she'd nothing to Strange.

Then it'd be Strange vs Fate, a prepped Strange wins.

Wanda would end up turning everyone into monkeys and something stupid, so no body wins.

Well whatever it is, he doesnt know what it is nor know how to stop it. Wanda is able to control her powers more times than not. Youre making it one of those days where she doesnt have control.

During the Onslaught saga, Strange was probably drunk or had a hangover or something. Who knows.

Illusions? I dont know aobut Zatanna, but through the Helmet, Fate can to the same. Fate conjure millions of demons? Has he ever? Even so, they all get sent to another relam.

Now it resorts to Strange begging higher beings for power. You dont know if Strange's Gods are higher than the Lords of Order and Chaos.

I wasnt implying that Fate woud use is books in the battle. I just brough up the fact that Fate has studied 1,000's of boks as well. Nabu is beyond all books in Fate's library and he guides Fate directly. Thats what i was trying to mention. And theres no way Strange is getting that Helmet off.

Zatanna is taken out without a thought? How so? You highly underestimate her. Shes helped Spectre beat gods of magic that he couldnt beat alone. If Strange takes her down, it would take take time.

What can he do to her before she says "EZEERF!"? If she says anything at all?

I dont even believe that Strange has found a way to stop Wanda yet. But she sure knows how to stop him. Or contain him rather.

Wanda turning everyone to monkeys would blow me away. If that ever happened in a comic, id kill myself.

Wanda is able to control her powers more times than not. Youre making it one of those days where she doesnt have control

Illusions? I dont know aobut Zatanna, but through the Helmet, Fate can to the same

What can he do to her before she says "EZEERF!"? If she says anything at all?

Zatanna: "ezeerf!"
Strange: "No"

It seriously is as simple as that.

I wasnt implying that Fate woud use is books in the battle. I just brough up the fact that Fate has studied 1,000's of books as well.

I dont even believe that Strange has found a way to stop Wanda yet. But she sure knows how to stop him. Or contain him rather.

Resorting to higher powers is what Strange does, that's where his powers come from. He is an Avatar for many many Gods that are at least Nabu's equal, but probably his superior.

Like I said, it'd come down to Strange w/prep vs Fate, and Fate can't win that fight.

Those illusions are crazy, they think and act on their own, and each have powers like Strange. So, it'd be:

15 Stranges, a few thousand demons vs a insane Wanda, Fate and Zatanna.

<<During the Onslaught saga, Strange was probably drunk or had a hangover or something. Who knows.>>

Lol, yeah...him and Tony like to drink....they can stop whenever they want!

There is a reason why Strange wasn't around, it's because the story wouldn't be the same with him there. He's just too powerful.

Marvel is curently in the work of de-powering Strange because he's basically became too uber. They are making it that Mordo messes with his past and screws him up.

He's a GOD only has BLOOD in his veins !!!

LONGPIG, whaddaya say we give a toast for our friend Stephen Strange, the Sorceror Supreme !!!

Cheers !!!

Originally posted by long pig
Current Wanda, has little to no control. She's totally insane right now, no control at all.

Arrg. Keep forgetting ist current. Bah!

Originally posted by long pig
Strange can't be fooled by illusions, he is immune to them. Fate and the rest aren't. Also, Strange's illusions all have powers, not as much as Strange, but they indeed do have magic/telepathy, and think on their own.

Fate and Zatanna arent immune to illusions? Do you have prof of this? Or is it an allegation? Zatanna herslef is a master illusionist. Imagine what Fate can do.

If Strange's illusions arent as powerfull, they they would be useless. Zatanna and Fate are immune to telepathy. Whats stopping the illusions from being trapped in suspence or banishment? Strange has been banished before.

Sine they all are capable of banishment and teleportation, that idea is nulled. Zatanna and Fate are also capable of dimension jumping.

Originally posted by long pig
He can banish her away. And he she says "ezeerf" he can negate it, her reality control/magic is beneath his.[?QUOTE]

Read above about the banishment. And reality control? If Strange is asleep, contained in frozen suspence, theres nothing he could do abut that. Though sometimes his astral form is able to still function.

[QUOTE=4378874]Originally posted by long pig
Zatanna: "ezeerf!"
Strange: "No"

It seriously is as simple as that.

How is Strange going to say "No", when he cant speak? Strasnge has been frozen in suspence before and was tataly unable of getting out. He wasnt even able to get out through astral form.

Containment in the Amulet of Anubis. Hes not getting out of that.

Originally posted by long pig
You seriously aren't trying to imply Fate without the helmet is even close to Strange's league, are you?

? I said that theres no way Strange is getting the Helmet off of Fate. Strange may have books, but they dont equal to Nabu's 10 billion + years of spells.

Originally posted by long pig
He took care of her in the Avengers issue, without trying to harm her, he mindwiped her while she struggled. If he wanted to harm her then, he could.

He was sure struggling against her in the Defenders issue.

Originally posted by long pig
Resorting to higher powers is what Strange does, that's where his powers come from. He is an Avatar for many many Gods that are at least Nabu's equal, but probably his superior.

Fate also gets his powers from Gods also. Directly from the beginning. You only assume Strange's gods are superior than Fate's.

Originally posted by long pig
Like I said, it'd come down to Strange w/prep vs Fate, and Fate can't win that fight.

Those illusions are crazy, they think and act on their own, and each have powers like Strange. So, it'd be:

15 Stranges, a few thousand demons vs a insane Wanda, Fate and Zatanna.

15 Stranges and a few thousand demons? Unless they are able to affect the intangible or are immune to magic, then ofcourse Strange wins.

How many times has Strange even summond dupes to fight for him? Or summoned a few thousand demons? Getting a bit desperate here huh?

NO !!! Not desperate !!
Just ensuring a clear VICTORY !!!

What ?? Are y'all afraid of Strang's full potential !!

Does Wanda not factor into this anywhere?

No !!

How many times has Strange even summond dupes to fight for him?

Or summoned a few thousand demons?

Fate and Zatanna arent immune to illusions? Do you have prof of this? Or is it an allegation? Zatanna herslef is a master illusionist. Imagine what Fate can do.

I've never heard of Zatanna being immune to illusions or telepathy. She is a mid-level telepath, nothing more, she isn't immune to either.

I know Fate is immune, because of his amulet, Strange is immune because of his Eye.

If Strange's illusions arent as powerfull, they they would be useless. Zatanna and Fate are immune to telepathy. Whats stopping the illusions from being trapped in suspence or banishment? Strange has been banished before.

Whats stopping the illusions from being trapped in suspence or banishment? Strange has been banished before.

Sine they all are capable of banishment and teleportation, that idea is nulled. Zatanna and Fate are also capable of dimension jumping.

How is Strange going to say "No", when he cant speak? Strasnge has been frozen in suspence before and was tataly unable of getting out. He wasnt even able to get out through astral form.

But, when was he unable to go into AF? Who froze him? Was he aware that he was going to be attacked? Were his shields up? <---probably not.

So, again....Zatanna will be banished, Wanda is a nut....so it'd be Fate vs Strange with prep. Fate can't win.

Eternity will give him power if he needs it to win. That's what has happend before, I see no reason for it not to happen here.

Containment in the Amulet of Anubis. Hes not getting out of that.

Imprisonment in the Crimson Crystal of Cytorrak, Fate isn't getting out of that.
Cyttorak can't even get out of that.

If we disregard Wanda's enormous power... (I don't know how to do that highlight for spoilers thing so I won't reveal any) then Strange with the amount of prep he has wins.

But I'd note that just because Wanda is unpredictable and would act on her own team doesn't mean that she isn't a factor in this. Reality bends to her subconscious will and survival is an instinct.

No, I know her power, but she doesn't really have control of it.

If we say "Ok, she has control for this fight" then she beats everyone, or at least that's what Marvel want's us to think, me...I doubt it.

Do you know if it's magic she's using yet?

This fight though, I don't see any reason why he can't go into astral form and just own. Fate and Zatanna will be busy fighting the illusions and demons.

Strange in astral form is just as powerful as he is in real life and can use the exact same spells, he can stay there for 24 hours until he starts weakening.

Neither Fate nor Zatanna can see or effect Astral Strange in any way whatsoever.

From what we have seen so far....if Wanda has control over her power, she'd have basically the same power as an IG wielder.

Well seeing as Strange didn't detect or anticipate her reality warp in HoM #1 - which affected him as well I'd note - it could be purely mutant ability ie that she's an omega mutant that can warp reality.