Originally posted by demigawd
Hey Mainstream: Totally offtopic, but it's been killing me with curiousity...who wins: Apoc or Piccolo?
I'd go with Apoc...the growing drawing energy form a hidden source, ability to become a super dense metal alloy thing would prove to much for Piccolo...however..if Piccolo were to go back to Namek and absorb his brothers and become an Ultra Namek....He might last longer.
Originally posted by demigawd
Where are you getting this 75% number from??? Magneto is not only a hell of a lot smarter than she is, and more combat experienced, he's also received power ups. Polaris does not = an inexperienced female Magneto. His innate power is greater than hers because of his power ups.And, you're saying "pre-ex Mag". Clearly, they're not fighting "pre-ex Mag", they're fighting current mags, who opens a blackhole and sends them flying through it.
Magneto has shown the ability (even before Excalibur's latest power up) to just...snatch Polaris' ability away from her. He even wrested Storm's lighting away from her while beating down the rest of the X-men, and used her lightning to make himself STRONGER.
I understand and commend your logic in putting this team together to take Magneto, but in the end, it actually backfires...Magneto uses their powers against them and it actually serves to make him more powerful. The only threat here is Iceman, and he's a threat because his powers are less related to Magneto, not more.
He is more combat experienced than polaris but polaris is hardly a chump with her many years of being on various x-related teams. Mags first power up was just because he was made young again so it wasnt a power up as such. His second one was when he discorporated in the earths electromagnetic spectrum upon re -entry. Making him powerful enough to restrain all of the Xmen by the iron in the blood. (A feat Polaris has recently pulled off might i add). The most recent was his ability to create WORMHOLES(Not even SS could control blackholes he's struggled to survive against one in the Galactus the devourer mini.) This doesnt suggest a power up to me as much as it does a refinement of his existing abilities.A power up would be Jean turning into Phoenix. Id say Magneto has only had one true power up which was his one during the fatal attractions saga. What you must take into consideration is that heroes by their nature and role arent prone to arrogant displays of power and dont always get a chance to show off the full range or potency of their abilities in their hero roles. That is an advantage Magneto has over Polaris. If we were to compare Magneto from his time as the leader of the Xmen to current Polaris they would seem more on a par.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Magneto has shown the ability (even before Excalibur's latest power up) to just...snatch Polaris' ability away from her. He even wrested Storm's lighting away from her while beating down the rest of the X-men, and used her lightning to make himself STRONGER.
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That is Storms role in this team up. To empower Polaris to siginificantly reduce the gap between hers and Magnetos power levels. Magneto has shown the ability to snatch polaris' abiities from her but that was prior to her training. If you remember he tried again after he regained his powers after being linked with her for so long and she blocked him. She then went on to give him a decent fight. However the situation youre talking about with Storm happened in uncanny. Magneto less wrested control of storms lightning, than he absorbed it and rechanneled it back at her. Polaris being empowered by Storm both of them among the most poweful mutants on the planet is not someone who magneto could toss to the side. He would have to engage her properly. Bishop would be helping with additional energies or by launching a separate offensive and iceman would be attacking separately. Magneto wouldnt be able to just toss them aside like that. Not against such opposition in these particular circumstances.
I walk a fine line here because I'm, in some ways, arguing AGAINST Magneto in your other thread. Not sure if you did that on purpose, but if so...bravo. At any rate, onto the reply:
I agree that Polaris is hardly a chump. She's pretty darn powerful. And I also agree that Magneto's only artificial power up was his near discorporation with earth's EM field. However, Magneto's discorporation power up was HUGE. And his increase in control to the point where he exerised control over physical laws cannot be ignored. While Lorna's training helped her close the gap up somewhat with classic Magneto to the point where I'd agree that she's probably on par with "Helmetless Magneto", Magneto tripled that gap with his current state. Surely you wouldn't argue otherwise?
Besides, you said it yourself...it's not about power, it's about skill. And opening a black hole is a skill Polaris is a LOOOOOOONG way from achieving, considering she did absolutely nothing to close or counter Xorn's black hole that she nearly got sucked into herself.
Magneto has long had the ability to exert influence over the iron in someone's blood. It happened before his Fatal Attractions power up. In fact, his first time doing it was against the Avengers in the early 80s. He did it a few years after when he freed Beast from Doom's mind control. So that puts Polaris in the ballpark of early 80s Magneto, though even then she has yet to match even his earliest feats.
Fatal Attractions Magneto is on another level entirely.
So my point is even with Storm's power up, Polaris wouldn't be at Magneto's power level, and all the power ups in the world won't help bridge the experience gap.
That is Storms role in this team up. To empower Polaris to siginificantly reduce the gap between hers and Magnetos power levels. Magneto has shown the ability to snatch polaris' abiities from her but that was prior to her training. If you remember he tried again after he regained his powers after being linked with her for so long and she blocked him. She then went on to give him a decent fight.
I think I explained this either above or on the other thread. Polaris blocked a powerless Magneto's access to her power. That's not much of a feat...he was powerless. What makes it even less of a feat is that a second later, he yanked it out of her anyway. Once he got his full power back...that was it for her. He had the Avengers and his kids and his mercy and there wasn't a think Polaris could do about it.
So even with Storm's power up, the power and experience gap is too great. Magneto can further draw power away from both Storm and Polaris (since he's used them both in the past to make himself more powerful) and turn himself into a god. This fight backfires horribly.
However the situation youre talking about with Storm happened in uncanny. Magneto less wrested control of storms lightning, than he absorbed it and rechanneled it back at her. Polaris being empowered by Storm both of them among the most poweful mutants on the planet is not someone who magneto could toss to the side.
he wouldn't toss them to the side...I'm sure they'd try hard. They just wouldn't win. You seemed to take a jump in logic. ok, great, you acknowledged that Magneto seized control of Storm's lighting and channeled it into himself and shot it back at her (making him more powerful while she struggled to regain control...and never did). So we're on the same page here. However, next you said that "polaris being empowered by Storm both of them among the most powerful muants on the planet...". How does Storm empowering Polaris prevent Magneto from seizing that power for himself like he did last time?
He would have to engage her properly. Bishop would be helping with additional energies or by launching a separate offensive and iceman would be attacking separately.
Magneto's shield has both of those covered. Magneto engages "Storlaris" simply by snatching the power from one or both of them. I have no reason to believe they could prevent it since Magneto has powered himself up at their expense before. And in both cases, they never stopped him for any length of time.
Untrue. Look at how many upgrades Superman got (Kryptonia mind control? 10,000 year combat training???). Or Flash (more than anybody). Or GL (Ion anybody? "no recharge necessary" "immunity to yellow"😉. Or MM (no more fear of fire). Doomsday? Dr. Polaris? the Bat sci-fi closet??? There's absolutely no difference.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""he wouldn't toss them to the side...I'm sure they'd try hard. They just wouldn't win. You seemed to take a jump in logic. ok, great, you acknowledged that Magneto seized control of Storm's lighting and channeled it into himself and shot it back at her (making him more powerful while she struggled to regain control...and never did). So we're on the same page here. However, next you said that "polaris being empowered by Storm both of them among the most powerful muants on the planet...". How does Storm empowering Polaris prevent Magneto from seizing that power for himself like he did last time?"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Magneto never directly took away polaris' energies he forceably granted himself access to the E.M spectrum through her. It wasnt hard to do since she'd let him do it for months before that moment so he knew just how to do it. Magneto i doubt would be able to just absorb polaris' magnetic energies directly, he hasnt shown the ability to do that yet. If he could do it or if it was that easy then why didnt he do it against Joseph? To defeat Joseph he had to resort to using a metal projectile. Storm empowering Polaris would virtually put her on par power wise(in terms of energy generateable) with Pre-ex Mag. If it was just Those two he was fighting then yes i believe he would ventually win. But not against a significantly empowered Polaris who could at least keep him busy and protect her friends somewhat from his powers. Then there's bishop who can absorb Magnetos energies and and loop them back to Polaris or shoot them back at him and then you have Iceman who if given the oppurtunity can kill within seconds.
Originally posted by demigawd
Untrue. Look at how many upgrades Superman got (Kryptonia mind control? 10,000 year combat training???). Or Flash (more than anybody). Or GL (Ion anybody? "no recharge necessary" "immunity to yellow"😉. Or MM (no more fear of fire). Doomsday? Dr. Polaris? the Bat sci-fi closet??? There's absolutely no difference.
Very true. Owned lol.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""he wouldn't toss them to the side...I'm sure they'd try hard. They just wouldn't win. You seemed to take a jump in logic. ok, great, you acknowledged that Magneto seized control of Storm's lighting and channeled it into himself and shot it back at her (making him more powerful while she struggled to regain control...and never did). So we're on the same page here. However, next you said that "polaris being empowered by Storm both of them among the most powerful muants on the planet...". How does Storm empowering Polaris prevent Magneto from seizing that power for himself like he did last time?"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Magneto never directly took away polaris' energies he forceably granted himself access to the E.M spectrum through her. It wasnt hard to do since she'd let him do it for months before that moment so he knew just how to do it. Magneto i doubt would be able to just absorb polaris' magnetic energies directly, he hasnt shown the ability to do that yet. If he could do it or if it was that easy then why didnt he do it against Joseph? To defeat Joseph he had to resort to using a metal projectile. Storm empowering Polaris would virtually put her on par power wise(in terms of energy generateable) with Pre-ex Mag. If it was just Those two he was fighting then yes i believe he would ventually win. But not against a significantly empowered Polaris who could at least keep him busy and protect her friends somewhat from his powers. Then there's bishop who can absorb Magnetos energies and and loop them back to Polaris or shoot them back at him and then you have Iceman who if given the oppurtunity can kill within seconds.
I didn't say he took her powers *away*. I said that when Polaris cut off her power source that she was granting to Magneto willingly, he FORCED her to continuing being his power source by taking her power against her will. She couldn't stop him, despite 1)His being powerless and 2)It being her power. That right there shows he's on a whole other level.
As for Magneto absorbing power - he did it to Zaladane. He reclaimed all his power, took away her power and KTFO of her with it.
Also, despite all the fancy terminology for it, his "near discorporation" business was imply him absorbing huge amounts of EM energy from the magnetosphere.
So yeah...he has shown the ability to absorb EM energy. It didn't work against Joseph because Joseph is more powerful. Doesn't apply to Polaris.
So we're still at the same point, GS. Magneto still snatches Polaris' power away from her and Storm's power away from her and becomes a cosmic being. 😄
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""I didn't say he took her powers *away*. I said that when Polaris cut off her power source that she was granting to Magneto willingly, he FORCED her to continuing being his power source by taking her power against her will. She couldn't stop him, despite 1)His being powerless and 2)It being her power. That right there shows he's on a whole other level.
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He wasnt taking away her energies he was merely sharing her access to the electromagnetic spectrum. Yeah magneto is more skilled im not debating that, but Polaris has improved and Magneto couldnt necessarily absorb the sheer amount of energy that would be being projected at him forceably from storm and polaris combined. It would be painful to him. Theres a limit to how much he could take. This battle doesnt just feature Polaris. She wouldnt be able to defaet him but empowered by storm she would be able to hold her own and protect her friends from the effects of mags' powers while bishop and iceman attack magneto on different fronts.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""As for Magneto absorbing power - he did it to Zaladane. He reclaimed all his power, took away her power and KTFO of her with it.
Also, despite all the fancy terminology for it, his "near discorporation" business was imply him absorbing huge amounts of EM energy from the magnetosphere.
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But thats the point. It was his power that Zaladane had. She drained him of it leaving him with depleted energy reseves a gaping capacity as a result of Zaladanes tamperings so that he could easily accommodate the electromagnetic energies and comfortably at that because he wouldnt be pushing past his own natural limits but merely replenishing his depleted energy reserves. Zaladane had virtually no skill when it came to wielding those powers. I to have that issue. She couldnt even manipulate the enrgies to protect herself from a rock fall. Magneto was very weak but he was tremendously more skilled than Zal so he could easily rest the enrgies from her and could absorb them comfortably because he was so depleted. Just because he can absorb a lightning bolt of storms doesnt mean he can absorb when his reserves are well stocked (as is the assumption for all combatants) the combined energies of Storm and Polaris, two of the most powerful mutants on the planet. It would be very naive to think that just because of his past battle with storm. A well stocked Magneto just wouldnt be able to do i because he would be going severely past his natural limits and would burn himself out. He could not continually absorb power until he became cosmic Demi. I hope you dont think that lol. His body wouldnt be able to cope with all that power on top of his own vast energies. It didnt work with Joseph because its not as easy as you think it is. Magnetos body is already home to vast energies and absorbing the odd lightning bolt or even barrage of lightning is fine but he wouldnt be able to simply absorb their combined energies like that he wouldnt be able to cope. I dont think he'd fight like that either. He would defeat this empowered eventually Polaris through being more skilled with energy manipulating and possibly through being able to generate more energies veen than the two combined, however he would have to engage her properly in battle he wouldnt be able to fight Bishop and Bobby at the same time. They would attack him also and their assault would be relentless. Bobby would just need a few seconds to apply a deep freeze, Magneto not knowing off Boobys new powers could underestimate him. Bishop would be a big problem as well. Together i still think they could defeat Magneto.
Originally posted by demigawd
Untrue. Look at how many upgrades Superman got (Kryptonia mind control? 10,000 year combat training???). Or Flash (more than anybody). Or GL (Ion anybody? "no recharge necessary" "immunity to yellow"😉. Or MM (no more fear of fire). Doomsday? Dr. Polaris? the Bat sci-fi closet??? There's absolutely no difference.
well for the GL they got rid of Ion, they still need to recharge and yellow is a stupid weakness don't you agree? Superman doesn't have 10,000 years of combat training, and he can use Torquasm Rao but after like one hour he would die. But for Doomsday he is weaker now, and Flash I have to admit is a bit far. but Marvel they are making everyone god-like and able to destroy earth. I mean Phoenix in the X-men. Ice-man being able to control all water and not able to be physically killed. Or Magneto being able to have control over the fundamental forces of the universe. It is a bit much. Both have gone a bit but Marvel is alot more noticeable.