Well Mephisto has had some involvement in Wanda's life, apparently her children were created from shards of Mephisto's soul. And when they were gone, those shards remained.
Mephisto had a huge grudge against Hawkeye (i think it was the 2000 thunderbolts annual) and the Vision because of Wanda..
And look who's been killed lately.
Wanda was unconscious and Magneto was actually using her power for himself in the last issues of Excalibur. Wanda's reality warping allowed her to alter elements in the existing world -and that seemed to be the limits of what she could do, even in the final Avenger's story. In close proximity to Magneto, he, she or they were able to actually change the entire structure of the multiverse. That goes beyond basic reality warping...it's changing the nature of "is" itself. It was postulated that it was only something that could be done by the marriage of Magneto's and Wanda's powers. Neither could do it on their own.
That's right, bitches! Magneto + Wanda = Infinity Gauntlet!
Originally posted by demigawd
Wanda was unconscious and Magneto was actually using her power for himself in the last issues of Excalibur. Wanda's reality warping allowed her to alter elements in the existing world -and that seemed to be the limits of what she could do, even in the final Avenger's story. In close proximity to Magneto, he, she or they were able to actually change the entire structure of the multiverse. That goes beyond basic reality warping...it's changing the nature of "is" itself. It was postulated that it was only something that could be done by the marriage of Magneto's and Wanda's powers. Neither could do it on their own.That's right, bitches! Magneto + Wanda = Infinity Gauntlet!
(I'm going to play Devil's Advocate about Mags role in all this. 😄 )
Speculative. Postulated by whom?
How close a proximity?
I'm still thinking Wanda's (ill-defined) abilities to affect reality i.e. space and time against the laws of nature are the key, even in absence of Magneto's. But that's my personal opinion and Marvel may prove me wrong.
New York is nowhere near proximal to Genosha... how did their powers interract to create the wormhole in that instance. Do they need to be in the same room? Wanda recreated her children quite easily without him there.
I'm not doubting Magneto is powerful but I don't believe him to have limitless power. He controls electromagnetic force... potentially weak force and strong force as well, as theories of how these are inter-related have been discerned. He shouldn't control gravitational force. Even if unified field theory is completely proven in MU he would still have to have rudimentary knowledge of how they are related in order to use his primary ability of manipulating electromagnetic force to produce and control the gravitation in order to produce a completely controlled Einstein-Rosen bridge. He could use his power of magnetism to the same effect but that would require a magnetic field of at least 10 to the power of 18 tesla.
(Physics isn't my forte so correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.)
I could speculate too. Wanda's subconscious has ramifications on reality e.g. reanimation of Agatha Harkness. Wanda unconscious may as well. Imo Wanda's power allowed him to do things like creating wormholes that under normal circumstances should be beyond his abilities.
Personally I doubt this is purely Wanda's doing... but then doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't. Imo Magneto and Xavier who is being forgotten in all this... also have a role... but imo they are not the lead.
LT usually has his own reasons for choosing to do things. He didn't get involved in the IG, either, remember, until after it was over. But HoM is affecting the entire multiverse, beyond even what the HOTU did. It's just directly specifically at changing earth, probably because Magneto doesn't have any ambitions beyond Earth. So my guess is that abstracts aren't getting involved because Magneto/Wanda don't have Thanos/Doom-like ambitions of killing half the universe or supplanting them or whatever else.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
(I'm going to play Devil's Advocate about Mags role in all this. 😄 )Speculative. Postulated by whom?
How close a proximity?
Postulated by Magneto himself in Excalibur v3. He wondered aloud if there was a link between his control of the physical world and her control of "causality" and if her power could be harnessed. A couple of issues later and Magneto is already making some...adjustments to reality (while Wanda was still unconscious). We don't know how close a proximity, or even if it matters.
I'm still thinking Wanda's (ill-defined) abilities to affect reality i.e. space and time against the laws of nature are the key, even in absence of Magneto's. But that's my personal opinion and Marvel may prove me wrong.
Wanda's ability to create "hexes" was actually a form of reality warping. It was taken to its extreme when she went crazy, but in the end it was still just "warping", similar to Jaime Braddock or Proteus. She could alter space and time and the laws of nature. But creating HoM went beyond that...it didn't warp reality, it BECAME reality. To almost perfect completeness. That's something that didn't take place until Magneto began harnessing her power.
New York is nowhere near proximal to Genosha... how did their powers interract to create the wormhole in that instance. Do they need to be in the same room? Wanda recreated her children quite easily without him there.
The wormhole had nothing to do with Wanda herself. The foreshadowing by Charles and further explanation by Beast stated that Magneto was always able to do such things, he just held himself back because subconsciously, he was in conflict about what was right and what was wrong. When he KNOWS, in all his heart, that something is the right thing to do, then his full abilities come to the fore. Saving his daughter was such a thing.
Wanda re-creating her children is an example of reality-warping, which she was able to do on her own. HoM goes beyond reality warping. It's much more on the level of Franklin Richards. Wanda beforehand had reality control more in line with Proteus or Jaime Braddock or Mikhail Rasputin.
I'm not doubting Magneto is powerful but I don't believe him to have limitless power. He controls electromagnetic force... potentially weak force and strong force as well, as theories of how these are inter-related have been discerned. He shouldn't control gravitational force. Even if unified field theory is completely proven in MU he would still have to have rudimentary knowledge of how they are related in order to use his primary ability of manipulating electromagnetic force to produce and control the gravitation in order to produce a completely controlled Einstein-Rosen bridge. He could use his power of magnetism to the same effect but that would require a magnetic field of 10 to the power of 18 tesla.(Physics isn't my forte so correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.)
The fact that he's able to magnetically create a wormhole and manipulate electrons attests to the extent of the energy at his disposal. That would certainly include gravitational force. Even Polaris is able to create anti-gravity fields, and she's a lot less powerful.
I could speculate too. Wanda's subconscious has ramifications on reality e.g. reanimation of Agatha Harkness. Wanda unconscious may as well. Imo Wanda's power allowed him to do things like creating wormholes that under normal circumstances should be beyond his abilities.
Personally I doubt this is purely Wanda's doing... but then doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't. Imo Magneto and Xavier who is being forgotten in all this... also have a role... but imo they are not the lead.
I think having some unseen person being the real power behind this is silly and takes away from the main thrust of the story...a father trying to make amends for what he's done wrong. I can accept Magneto hijacking her power to make a utopia for him and his children. I can accept Xavier being responsible by trying to give Magneto and his family the peace and dream they never achieved. And I can accept it being completely Wanda's doing, despite Magneto actually using her power to make changes by himself. But I'd take severe issue with someone like, say, Mephisto coming out of nowhere and being the mastermind behind this whole thing.
Originally posted by demigawd
But I'd take severe issue with someone like, say, Mephisto coming out of nowhere and being the mastermind behind this whole thing.
Ditto.
Strange how Jamie Braddock seems immune to the changes of HoM and how he can traverse in and out of the White Hot Room though.
Someone else said it, and for now I'm in agreement that it's Xavier to know everyone's greatest desires, Magneto for his control over the physical world. Wanda for her grasp on reality (literally not figuratively as we all know she's a bit nuts)... but there is an unknown fourth I think if you look at HoM #3
BTW Neutron star = magnetic flux density of 10 to the 8 Tesla... creation of small wormhole = 10,000,000,000 x stronger field. I'm still sceptical about Magneto having this kind of power... but if Beast says so 😛
Just wait for 2 months after both their present storylines have run their course and ask the question again
The answer after the retrocon of these stupid ideas will probably be "Ah who cares Captain America can punche them both out"
So anyone else looking forward to infinite Crisis?Ive loved the Insiders storyline building it up and i cant wait too see a really great storyline unfold 💃 😄 💃
Originally posted by demigawdYou said the HofM is affecting the multiverse...how? I've only picked up Issue #1, and FF HofM #1, but how is the multiverse being affected?
LT usually has his own reasons for choosing to do things. He didn't get involved in the IG, either, remember, until after it was over. But HoM is affecting the entire multiverse, beyond even what the HOTU did. It's just directly specifically at changing earth, probably because Magneto doesn't have any ambitions beyond Earth. So my guess is that abstracts aren't getting involved because Magneto/Wanda don't have Thanos/Doom-like ambitions of killing half the universe or supplanting them or whatever else.
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Just wait for 2 months after both their present storylines have run their course and ask the question againThe answer after the retrocon of these stupid ideas will probably be "Ah who cares Captain America can punche them both out"
So anyone else looking forward to infinite Crisis?Ive loved the Insiders storyline building it up and i cant wait too see a really great storyline unfold 💃 😄 💃
When someones talking about or getting excited about anything marvel related why must you always come in and ay DC fanboy sh*t like that? I read Teen titans, Outsiders and plan on getting Infinite crisis yet i prefer Marvel. Howver you dont see me or anyone else around here continually spouting rubbish about the opposite company. If you prefer DC then fine thats your entitlement but stop constantly putting marvel down, especially on threads featuring Marvel characters. Noone wants to hear it.
Originally posted by demigawd
Wanda was unconscious and Magneto was actually using her power for himself in the last issues of Excalibur. Wanda's reality warping allowed her to alter elements in the existing world -and that seemed to be the limits of what she could do, even in the final Avenger's story. In close proximity to Magneto, he, she or they were able to actually change the entire structure of the multiverse. That goes beyond basic reality warping...it's changing the nature of "is" itself. It was postulated that it was only something that could be done by the marriage of Magneto's and Wanda's powers. Neither could do it on their own.That's right, bitches! Magneto + Wanda = Infinity Gauntlet!
Originally posted by long pig
When did Strange and Magneto fight, and it ended in a stalemate?
They kinda fought in an early issue of Defenders (15? 16?), and fought again, but I read their second fight in a Magneto one-shot reprint that had a few of Magneto's "greatest hits".
Originally posted by Lord S
You said the HofM is affecting the multiverse...how? I've only picked up Issue #1, and FF HofM #1, but how is the multiverse being affected?
It was stated in Uncanny X-men HoM. Roma mentioned it and there were multiple versions of multiple characters all being smashed together.
Yeah, I got those two issues, Strange and Magneto never actually fight each other in #15, it's mostly about mutant Alpha.
In #16 Magneto is magically turned into an infant at the end of the two books.
Not much of a stalemate.
btw, whatever happend to Mutant Alpha?
If HoM is almost effecting a Celestial, then it's pretty high up on the power scale, but I.G is a bit too high.
Magneto was turned into a baby by Alpha, his own creation. It wasn't magical. Magneto attacked trapped the Defenders in his magnetic field that none of them could break until Xavier did some Deus ex Machina thing that channeled all their mental energy to one point and snapped the restraints while Magneto was away. But their second fight was more complete.
If the level of power is determined by its scale, then I'd say affecting a multiverse > affecting a universe. We don't know specifically how the HoM reality changing is or can affect abstracts, but we know that it's breached universal barriers in a way that Thanos was unable to reach with the HoTU. That shows a more far reaching power to me, though I acknowledge that different measurements can yield different opinions.
Mutant Alpha I believe ended up hooking up with The Stranger or something.