Him

Originally posted by Pernille
Well, I'm sure they knew it and they took a risk but you have to do sacrifices. Bam is a punk but he gave them free promotion that I guess they wanted and I'm sure many bands would have taken it if you had that kind of opportunity. I already said that I didn't like it either, but I try to see their side of it, it must have been a great frustration for them to be on the verge of breaking it in the US, but still kind of just hanging there and not going anywhere.

No, you're wrong. You don't have to make sacrifices with your art, what is wrong with you? You don't and SHOULDN'T sacrifice your art for fame and fortune, at all.

If they just got pissed off because they weren't satisfied with having a dedicated following and NOT being mega stars, then they suck. Because they obviously just wanted to be famous. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

Originally posted by Pernille
For god's sake, since when was Bam in the band? They don't owe him for their career but if that's what you think, why don't you go and call every band crap who's ever had any type of promotion campaign?

He plastered their logo over everything he owns, got it tattooed on him, pimped their shit on his TV shows and every TV show he was on, they put him on their DVD because they felt like they owed him after all he did (and because they wanted it to sell better, Ville said this in Kerrang). What are you not understanding? They're money-hungry, fame obsessed sellout idiots. That's fact. Fact.

Originally posted by Pernille
A band can be famous and be about the music. The Beatles sold shitloads of records and they're considered one of the best bands in the world. I never said HIM were virtuosos, but they are very good. You can hear their influences, yet at the same time they have their own sound. There are not many bands who sound like them. I give credit for people who try to push the envelope, and HIM are one of them. I understand that if you hate a band if they're on the charts with songs that other people have written for them, but HIM's not for that. Valo writes 99% of HIM's songs. So far you haven't provided any real reason why you hate their music.

Hahahahahaha. H.I.M are garbage. Shit on their instruments, shit at making music. Everything they do has been done before by some other shitty goth love band. They're like the goth Coldplay. Everything they do on every record is the same, they don't push any boundaries at all. The only record they've broke is how many titles can have the word 'love' in the song. They're lame, plain and simple.

Originally posted by Pernille
Anything majorly in Europe or the US? Because in Europe that would basically mean their first demos or EP, which I highly doubt you've heard when they were released if you're from the UK. If you have then great, but either way, the point isn't when you heard them for the first time but the fact that you can't even say why they're bad, you only bring up their image.

I've told you countless times that it's because of their ineptitude on instruments, the fact that they make shit, boring and cliched music with no personality. They're horrid live. Where shall I stop?

Originally posted by Pernille
Nightwish don't have a goth image. And what do they have to do with HIM anyway? Their music and vocals are totally different. Nightwish plays operetic heavy metal, HIM don't. There's no point comparing the two.

One band's good, one band's shit. The latter one isn't Nightwish.

-AC

No, you're wrong. You don't have to make sacrifices with your art, what is wrong with you? You don't and SHOULDN'T sacrifice your art for fame and fortune, at all.

And nothing is wrong with me, thank you.

If they just got pissed off because they weren't satisfied with having a dedicated following and NOT being mega stars, then they suck. Because they obviously just wanted to be famous. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

He plastered their logo over everything he owns, got it tattooed on him, pimped their shit on his TV shows and every TV show he was on, they put him on their DVD because they felt like they owed him after all he did (and because they wanted it to sell better, Ville said this in Kerrang).

Bam's obsession with them is another thing but it still has nothing to do with their music. He's a flaming HIM fan and went a bit overboard, ok, but I don't see that as the worldst biggest sin, nor does it have to take anything away from HIM's music.

Shit on their instruments, shit at making music. Everything they do has been done before by some other shitty goth love band. They're like the goth Coldplay. Everything they do on every record is the same, they don't push any boundaries at all. The only record they've broke is how many titles can have the word 'love' in the song. They're lame, plain and simple.

I've told you countless times that it's because of their ineptitude on instruments, the fact that they make shit, boring and cliched music with no personality. They're horrid live. Where shall I stop?

Their live performances were better back in the day, I agree, but every band has their weakest quality and HIM could improve that side.

One band's good, one band's shit. The latter one isn't Nightwish.

Originally posted by Pernille
Let me get one thing straight. They didn't sacrifice their art, they didn't stop writing and playing the music they want to. Sacrificing art means changing the way you create it, not the way you sell it. If they ever sacrificed anything, it was their reputation - unfortunately.

And nothing is wrong with me, thank you.

Exactly. In music, where the main thing you should be concerned with is being honest and respecting the art you create, don't you consider it really shit that they pretty much let Bam steal from them? Let Bam shove their music down the throats of girly girls who are just buying it coz they like Bam? H.I.M clearly don't care who buys their music as long as it's bought. They're just after money.

Originally posted by Pernille
Didn't you read anything what I just said? Since when was it not allowed to have ambition? You can be famous and you can love what you do musically and artwise, they don't exclude one another. I'm sure every band on this planet wants to have some sort of success.

It's different. Wanting to be successful is fine. Wanting to be successful at the expense of your reputation and art is another. They let Bam and MTV shit all over their music just so it sells more. They guest starred in Bam's show and such. They're scum and they're salesmen. Not artists.

Originally posted by Pernille
Bam's obsession with them is another thing but it still has nothing to do with their music. He's a flaming HIM fan and went a bit overboard, ok, but I don't see that as the worldst biggest sin, nor does it have to take anything away from HIM's music.

When they're letting their music and reputation suffer as a result, yes, it does.

Originally posted by Pernille
So that's your ground? Whatever. I strongly suggest you actually listen to their albums because they're not the same. They have their basic trademark sound which I see only as a good thing, but their music vary from hard rock to metal to goth to punk to more straightforward rock. I'm not saying they're the biggest boundary breakers ever, but their suggestion of "love metal" has already caused so much polemic so that alone tells something.

They made up another label for an already existing genre. They didn't create one. It's not love metal, it's ballad rock. Like Nickleback or some other shit. I've listened to them enough to know what I'm talking about, I don't talk about bands without being educated on them.

Originally posted by Pernille
No you haven't. This reply was the first time you brought it up. And no, they're not bad musicians, if they were they would've never got a record deal in the first place. Their music is a lot fresher than most of what you hear on the radio today and I seriously can't believe you call them "music with no personality" with everything you see on MTV and charts today.

What stupidity. They're not bad musicians or they wouldn't have got a deal? So every band with a record deal are good musicians? Evanescence? Simple Plan? Good Charlotte? Busted? Exactly. Sit down.

Secondly, they have no personality to their music. Ville is just a crummy, lame singer who tries to hard to be Ozzy Osbourne instead of quitting.

Originally posted by Pernille
Their live performances were better back in the day, I agree, but every band has their weakest quality and HIM could improve that side.

Well how poetic... Not. Just for your convenience, I love Nightwish. They're an awesome band. As are HIM.

No, H.I.M are shit. They are. Do you have any other points that you'd like me to put to an end?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Part of it is to be theatrical, to be operatic. You're obviously missing the point.

All of them are better at what they do than anyone in H.I.M.

-AC

Oh no my friend.I get the point,the problem is that band can't get it across seriously.The first time I herd them was on Alone in The Dark.I started laughing my ass off as soon as I herd them.I thought my God this can't be serious.

And then I saw the music video.......... 🙁

Whwn ir comes to pushing boundries not many bands do anymore.At one time Dave Matthews Band was.Hell,they even had DMB college courses.They aren't now though which is sad.The same can be said for tool.

Lots of bands push boundaries, you just obviously don't know about them.

Nightwish don't take themselves seriously and even if they did, they're undeniably talented musicians. Anyone in H.I.M is lame. Anything to do with that band is lame, they threw away any credibility they had.

-AC

sorry offtopic:

Nightwish is a great band

Exactly. In music, where the main thing you should be concerned with is being honest and respecting the art you create, don't you consider it really shit that they pretty much let Bam steal from them? Let Bam shove their music down the throats of girly girls who are just buying it coz they like Bam? H.I.M clearly don't care who buys their music as long as it's bought. They're just after money.

It's different. Wanting to be successful is fine. Wanting to be successful at the expense of your reputation and art is another. They let Bam and MTV shit all over their music just so it sells more. They guest starred in Bam's show and such. They're scum and they're salesmen. Not artists.

And HIM are not the only band who have guest starred Bam's shows.

When they're letting their music and reputation suffer as a result, yes, it does.

They made up another label for an already existing genre. They didn't create one. It's not love metal, it's ballad rock. Like Nickleback or some other shit. I've listened to them enough to know what I'm talking about, I don't talk about bands without being educated on them.

Nickelback don't have any gothic influences in their music and they don't probably even know what Scandinavian melancholy is.

What stupidity. They're not bad musicians or they wouldn't have got a deal? So every band with a record deal are good musicians? Evanescence? Simple Plan? Good Charlotte? Busted? Exactly. Sit down.

Secondly, they have no personality to their music. Ville is just a crummy, lame singer who tries to hard to be Ozzy Osbourne instead of quitting.

And there's hardly anything similar in Ville's and Ozzy's singing styles. Listen to the frigging music and then speak.

Nightwish don't take themselves seriously

That is not true. Tarja is a classically trained vocalist and she the most definitely takes it seriously what she does.

Originally posted by Pernille
No, that's not true. They do care what kind of reviews they get, they want to maintain that level in their music. But the difference here is that their goal is not to be an elitist indie band with a following of small group of music prigs, they're more down to earth than that. Valo has said this several times. And it doesn't mean it's all about money. Why else would Valo get tattoos of poets in his arms and mention his roots and the bands and the people he admires every time he gets a chance if it was just for money.

You just prove me right time and time again, you are so naive. EXACTLY. They care what their reviews say, they care what people think about them. That's why they try so hard to be what the fans want them to be instead of what they want to be. It's about popularity and therefore it's about fame. Ville just wants to be in a famous band at any cost.

Originally posted by Pernille
Reputation amongst prigs who can't see further from their noses, that's another thing.

And HIM are not the only band who have guest starred Bam's shows.

The thing is, H.I.M are a horrible band. They don't have to worry about "prigs" because they know that they have millions of Bam fans who like them.

H.I.M aren't the only band to perform on his show, but at least the other bands don't take revenue or pay for it. H.I.M show up for the sole purpose of getting more fans to buy their records.

Originally posted by Pernille
Wtf? For the billionth time, their MUSIC hasn't suffered in any f.cking way. As for their reputation, read my posts above.

Stop being an idiot. The music has suffered because music is about being honest. If they're "honest" in their music, then it PROVES that it's all about their money. Because they use Bam to push it. How can you take seriously what they're saying if it doesn't mean much to them?

Originally posted by Pernille
I'm not talking about a sub genre that is love metal, I'm talking about an expression they used. I don't know were they serious of suggesting that or was is more like an informal plea to call their music like that because they're bored being labelled as what they are not.

The first rule of a shit band who sound like everyone else is to claim they're not like everyone else and label themselves. Anyone knows this.

Originally posted by Pernille
Nickelback don't have any gothic influences in their music and they don't probably even know what Scandinavian melancholy is.

Scandinavian melancholy is melancholy from Scandinavia, it's not a genre. It's a phrase that you just made up.

H.I.M aren't from Scandinavia either.

Originally posted by Pernille
Those bands you mentioned have all that teenage band image but that doesn't mean they're all bad musicians. They're average but not bad. What separates HIM from them is the fact that their music is simply different and it has different aspects than those others. Hard to imagine a band like Good Charlotte singing "Gone With The Sin" or the original 7-minute version of "The Heartless". They don't have any emotion whatsoever to play that type of music.

Hahaha, stop. Just stop right now. All of the bands I mentioned are bad musicians or in Busted's case, not musicians at all. If you think otherwise, you've just invalidated your music opinion to new degrees.

H.I.M barely have enough emotion to play their own music, it's not emotion. Emotion is Jeff Buckley, Tool, Faith No More. Emotion is not H.I.M.

Originally posted by Pernille
And there's hardly anything similar in Ville's and Ozzy's singing styles. Listen to the frigging music and then speak.

So you missed Ville at the K! Show when he said he was dedicated to mimicing Ozzy Osbourne?

Apparantly. Uneducated fool.

-AC

H.I.M are from Finland for whoever mentioned the place.

Yeah I know, apparantly Pernille thinks they're Scandinavian.

-AC

They care what their reviews say, they care what people think about them. That's why they try so hard to be what the fans want them to be instead of what they want to be.

Every band cares what reviews they get. With a few exceptions of course and "artists" like Britney Spears who REALLY only do it for money.

It's about popularity and therefore it's about fame. Ville just wants to be in a famous band at any cost.

H.I.M aren't the only band to perform on his show, but at least the other bands don't take revenue or pay for it. H.I.M show up for the sole purpose of getting more fans to buy their records.

Stop being an idiot. The music has suffered because music is about being honest. If they're "honest" in their music, then it PROVES that it's all about their money. Because they use Bam to push it. How can you take seriously what they're saying if it doesn't mean much to them?

No. Somebody else here is an idiot.

The first rule of a shit band who sound like everyone else is to claim they're not like everyone else and label themselves. Anyone knows this.

Name me one band, ONE, that sounds like HIM.

Scandinavian melancholy is melancholy from Scandinavia, it's not a genre. It's a phrase that you just made up.

H.I.M aren't from Scandinavia either.

The Scandinavia consists of Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland, and HIM are most definitely from there. I should know because I live there.

Where did I say Scandinavian melancholy is a genre? Please tell me, because I don't see that line anywhere. Scandinavian melancholy is a phrase that is commonly used in music reviews concerning every genre from rock/metal to ambient to electronic to etc. HIM are one of those bands where it's present, it's in their blood. You don't come up with a song like GWTS living in Hollywood hills.

Hahaha, stop. Just stop right now. All of the bands I mentioned are bad musicians or in Busted's case, not musicians at all. If you think otherwise, you've just invalidated your music opinion to new degrees.

H.I.M barely have enough emotion to play their own music, it's not emotion. Emotion is Jeff Buckley, Tool, Faith No More. Emotion is not H.I.M.

Take Evanescesence for example. Oh yeah, there's another teenage goth wannabe band for kids to fall into, you might think. I am not their fan nor do I think they are that good, but considering their age and experience, their songs are quite ok built and Amy's vocals add to it. The sound in a few of their songs is positively striking, but their problem is that they have more loaned than what they have from their own. They've got 3 star reviews here from quite credible sources so I take it as that 3 out of 5 means average, not bad. So, I did and will say that they are average. I back up what I say, you on the hand haven't provided any other argument other than "they suck" and "they're shit". That's not very convincing.

So you missed Ville at the K! Show when he said he was dedicated to mimicing Ozzy Osbourne?

Apparantly. Uneducated fool.

Originally posted by Pernille
No. If they wanted to be what their fans wanted them to be, they wouldn't have given Bam permission to use the heartagram.

They gave Bam the heartagram and let him push their music to no end because they wanted fame and fortune. They didn't wanna make it on their own.

Originally posted by Pernille
Every band cares what reviews they get. With a few exceptions of course and "artists" like Britney Spears who REALLY only do it for money.

False, completely. You obviously listen to shit musicians. Bands may very well read the reviews but no real artist/s care about what some writer thinks of his, her or their work. Because it's what THEY think of it that matters. So you're wrong. As usual.

Originally posted by Pernille
You obviously haven't heard what Ville has to say. He never dreamt of being a big rock star, it was only for the music for him. When he realised that he has potential for being one, hunger grew while eating.

Yeah and then when he realised that he wasn't as good as he thought he was, he got bored of trying and took the short, sell-out route. Why are you even debating it? It's fact.

Originally posted by Pernille
And you know this because... you're in the band?

No, because I'm not blinded by it. It's obvious. You're so far in denial it's not even funny. You like H.I.M, it doesn't change the fact that they're sell-outs and corporate MTV bitches.

Originally posted by Pernille
So, when Ville wrote Razorblade Romance in 98/99 he probably thought, "hey I'm gonna meet this skateboard dude and am gonna be in his show, so let's think what I should write!!" No. Somebody else here is an idiot.

As I said above, if he ever WAS about the music, he's most certainly not anymore. Because he let Bam, a fat useless nobody, take HIS music and sell it to little girls. What part of this are you not understanding? It's simple.

Originally posted by Pernille
You just try soo damn hard to be cool and credible...

Name me one band, ONE, that sounds like HIM.

I didn't say there are loads of bands that sound like them. There aren't loads of people in music who sound like The Streets, but they're still shit aren't they? Unique doesn't mean talented, unique doesn't mean good. H.I.M sound different purely because Ville has an unusual (and false) voice. They music the band play is nothing more than standard rock music, simple. It's not and that's a fact. You obviously believe that being unique actually means being good. Ville is the most original member of the band and even he rips off about 10 different vocalists.

Originally posted by Pernille
HAHAHAHAH!!! I am sorry but what a frigging idiot you are.

The Scandinavia consists of Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland, and HIM are most definitely from there. I should know because I live there.

How many times have you heard H.I.M, Opeth, The Hives, Emperor etc say "We're from Scandinavia"? I've only ever heard H.I.M say that they're from Finland, Opeth and The Hives introduce themselves from Sweden. So if you're trying to brand everything that's not upbeat and happy as "Scandinavian Melancholy" you're just another genre-labelling fool who has to label shit bands to give himself an excuse to call them unique. Oh shock horror, you've already done that.

Originally posted by Pernille
Where did I say Scandinavian melancholy is a genre? Please tell me, because I don't see that line anywhere. Scandinavian melancholy is a phrase that is commonly used in music reviews concerning every genre from rock/metal to ambient to electronic to etc. HIM are one of those bands where it's present, it's in their blood. You don't come up with a song like GWTS living in Hollywood hills.

Where did I say you said it was a genre? I said it was a phrase, not a genre. A phrase you just pulled out of your ass. Scandinavian Meloncholy is used concerning every genre? It's not is it? Let's be honest with ourselves here.

Originally posted by Pernille
Let me refresh your memory. I did not say they (GC, Evanescesence etc.) are good musicians, I said they are not all bad musicians. Notice the words all and bad. Not bad doesn't mean good.

They are though, they're all wretched and shit musicians. Fact. Let's move on.

Originally posted by Pernille
Take Evanescesence for example. Oh yeah, there's another teenage goth wannabe band for kids to fall into, you might think. I am not their fan nor do I think they are that good, but considering their age and experience, their songs are quite ok built and Amy's vocals add to it. The sound in a few of their songs is positively striking, but their problem is that they have more loaned than what they have from their own. They've got 3 star reviews here from quite credible sources so I take it as that 3 out of 5 means average, not bad. So, I did and will say that they are average. I back up what I say, you on the hand haven't provided any other argument other than "they suck" and "they're shit". That's not very convincing.

Amy Lee uses pro-tools to enhance her voice to the max. She admits it openly in almost every magazine interview that comes up.

Secondly, Evanescence are not an average band. They suck for many reasons:

1) They're insincere and fake.
2) They're incredibly mediocre to shit on their instruments. NOTHING special there at all. Amy Lee is an terrible pianist.
3) You are obviously judging anyone as good if they can knock out a ballad.

You've never backed up what you've said any time. You just keep pumping out bullshit excuses to pretend that H.I.M aren't sellouts. Which they are, and that's a fact.

Originally posted by Pernille
Yes, Black Sabbath are absolutely their biggest influence musically ("We're on a mission from Black Sabbath" etc.), but I honestly do not find that many similarities between their singing styles. Ozzy uses more straightforward style, while Ville goes more often to falsetto and vibrato.

I never said they were similar did I? No. I said Ville rips him off, because he does.

Ville has a horrible live voice. He's a shit singer.

-AC

Finland 'officially' is outside of scandinavia. The official countries of Scandinavia are Sweden, Norway and Denmark. But there is a lot of argument about it. So both right in a way...

For crap.s sake, Finland is not officially outside of Scandinavia. How the hell do you think you know better? I am from Scandinavia and I know what I'm talking about.

The definition of it slightly changes depending on what you're referring to, but that Wikipedia encyclopedia thing you see when you googled is very misleading. I don't know who idiot made that up.

These days, officially, Scandinavia means all the five countries. That's a basic information you should know.

And AC, don't even think I'm finished with you yet.

I didn't look it up, that was what I remember from a school ski trip to Norway.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
False, completely. You obviously listen to shit musicians. Bands may very well read the reviews but no real artist/s care about what some writer thinks of his, her or their work. Because it's what THEY think of it that matters. So you're wrong. As usual.

You have no clue who I listen to so I suggest you to shut up.

Of course it's not the same to care about the reviews and read them like it's god's word, and I doubt any artist do the latter, but you're in denial if you think that no indie band pays attention to what critics say about them. I've seen several times reviews being linked from their sites because of course they want people to know how "good" they are, it's healthy self love, if you could say that. But you just use that same old clicheé that they don't care what other people say about them, but really, wake up.

Yeah and then when he realised that he wasn't as good as he thought he was, he got bored of trying and took the short, sell-out route. Why are you even debating it? It's fact.

I think I've already said what I think about the whole Bam/HIM thing, so how many times do I have to say this again before you get it: I never liked the idea either, I don't make excuses for it, but it's not a reason to hate the band. Period. Every time, EVERY damn time when people say why they don't like them it's because of Bam and I'm sick and tired of hearing it.

Ok, so they didn't mind having a bigger record bying audience. Who would? If that's what they wanted, fine. It doesn't wipe out everything they ever did as musicians or have to affect their creating music.

Unique doesn't mean talented, unique doesn't mean good. H.I.M sound different purely because Ville has an unusual (and false) voice. They music the band play is nothing more than standard rock music, simple. It's not and that's a fact. You obviously believe that being unique actually means being good. Ville is the most original member of the band and even he rips off about 10 different vocalists.

Well I rather listen to a unique band than a band that is a copy of a copy or in the middle of the mainstream. Now you're gonna say that HIM are one, but remember that if they were, they wouldn't sound even that much unique than they do. You even said it yourself, they sound different.

Ville's voice is incredible on records. He may not be the best vocalist in the world, but his range is very good, his voice is much more versatile than say, Ozzy's. At best, Ville's baritone stretches everything from rocking hard to powerful dark, deep to falsetto.

If you've heard the Bittersweet single by Apocalyptica, the cellos and Ville's voice are an amazing combination. Ylönen on the other hand, who is the other guest singer on the single, sounds awfully forced, screeching and unconvincing.

How many times have you heard H.I.M, Opeth, The Hives, Emperor etc say "We're from Scandinavia"? I've only ever heard H.I.M say that they're from Finland, Opeth and The Hives introduce themselves from Sweden. So if you're trying to brand everything that's not upbeat and happy as "Scandinavian Melancholy" you're just another genre-labelling fool who has to label shit bands to give himself an excuse to call them unique. Oh shock horror, you've already done that.

You have no clue of what you're talking about. The term I used is probably the most describing thing one can say about them. Like I said, Scandinavian melancholy is a term very often used in reviews, it doesn't mean it's a genre or anything but it's very common "term" here, in everything, not only in music. So it's natural to use it if you're describing a band that really has that quality, element or whatever it is. It's just there. It's not making excuses.

Bands themselves don't seem to mention it, although I've seen that too, but what I don't get is what is so wrong about it. It's not a made up term.

Where did I say you said it was a genre? I said it was a phrase, not a genre. A phrase you just pulled out of your ass.

Haha, I'm sorry but no, that phrase is not made up by me. I already explained it above.

Scandinavian Meloncholy is used concerning every genre? It's not is it? Let's be honest with ourselves here.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant the phrase is not used just in the rock/metal genre, it's used in every band of every genre who has it here.

And about Evanescence, you're still using excuses like "they're shit" and "they can't play", and no offence, but I believe more my own ears and what critics have to say.

1) They're insincere and fake.
- That's subjective. Remember their age and experience. You don't expect them to have the same power and talent than some veteran bands. For their background and age, they are not ten times worse than others in their genre.

2) They're incredibly mediocre to shit on their instruments. NOTHING special there at all. Amy Lee is an terrible pianist.
- Terrible, bad, horrible... In other words, you're saying nothing. I think "Imaginary" had quite interesting hooks. "Hello" and "My Immortal" keep the listener waiting and waiting, when an average/bad ballad would have already burst ten times. They have some effort in their records, so I don't think they're the worst in what they do.

3) You are obviously judging anyone as good if they can knock out a ballad.
- Nope. Not my style to base my opinion on one or two songs. And besides, those two ballads I mentioned are rather good efforts from their type of band.

Originally posted by Pernille
You have no clue who I listen to so I suggest you to shut up.

Cute threats and everything but I was basing my comment on what you said. When you use the phrase "Every band..." you're including every band, and I'm pretty sure you don't know every band. Needless to say, you are wrong.

Originally posted by Pernille
Of course it's not the same to care about the reviews and read them like it's god's word, and I doubt any artist do the latter, but you're in denial if you think that no indie band pays attention to what critics say about them. I've seen several times reviews being linked from their sites because of course they want people to know how "good" they are, it's healthy self love, if you could say that. But you just use that same old clicheé that they don't care what other people say about them, but really, wake up.

There's a difference between liking compliments and being concerned about what a magazine or writer says about your band or the music they make. Let's establish that fact, ok? Good.

You claimed that every band cares. You're wrong.

Originally posted by Pernille
I think I've already said what I think about the whole Bam/HIM thing, so how many times do I have to say this again before you get it: I never liked the idea either, I don't make excuses for it, but it's not a reason to hate the band. Period. Every time, EVERY damn time when people say why they don't like them it's because of Bam and I'm sick and tired of hearing it.

Ok so you agree with me that it's a disgrace, yet you don't think that the disgraceful decision (a decision that H.I.M made, Bam didn't force them) isn't a reason to dislike the band? Despite them making the decision?

So H.I.M give Bam the green light to abuse their "art" and their "honest music", you acknowledge this as a horrid decision, yet it's not a reason to dislike or hate the band? Hmm. Quite stupid that, isn't it? You are making excuses.

Originally posted by Pernille
Ok, so they didn't mind having a bigger record bying audience. Who would? If that's what they wanted, fine. It doesn't wipe out everything they ever did as musicians or have to affect their creating music.

If you CLAIM to be "all about the music" not the fame, then you are saying that audience size doesn't matter. Do you see how contradictory that is? Yes. "I'm Ville Valo and I'm all about the music, but like, I got bored playing to dedicated fans so I decided to just let Bam feed our stuff to 13 year old girls." Do you see what happened? Ville claimed to not wanna be famous, yet he continually strived to get a bigger audience at ANY COST.

When you claim to be an artist, claim to be about the music, only to compromise what you stand for in order to achieve more record sales, that's selling out, that's compromising your art and THAT does have a reflection on what you say, do or produce. Fact.

Originally posted by Pernille
Well I rather listen to a unique band than a band that is a copy of a copy or in the middle of the mainstream. Now you're gonna say that HIM are one, but remember that if they were, they wouldn't sound even that much unique than they do. You even said it yourself, they sound different.

No, I said Ville sounds different. He still sounds shit. It's the mixture of his singing voice and that fake, cheesy european movie voice that he puts on.

Originally posted by Pernille
Ville's voice is incredible on records. He may not be the best vocalist in the world, but his range is very good, his voice is much more versatile than say, Ozzy's. At best, Ville's baritone stretches everything from rocking hard to powerful dark, deep to falsetto.

Yeah but outside of the studio, outside of the digital enhancement, he has a shit voice. He can't sing live. Because he relies on digital studio work to make him sound good. He's not. He's a terrible singer.

Originally posted by Pernille
If you've heard the Bittersweet single by Apocalyptica, the cellos and Ville's voice are an amazing combination. Ylönen on the other hand, who is the other guest singer on the single, sounds awfully forced, screeching and unconvincing.

Yeah, so? Ville is a fraud. Being great on record (which he isn't anyway) doesn't cut it. If you can't sing nearly the same live, you shouldn't be singing at all. Dave Grohl is nowhere near as good live as he is on record, but he is as good of a guitarist and he can still repeat the sound. Ville just sounds like some drunken pub singer who has to get up on stage painted like Alice Cooper, holding a cigarette to disguise the fact that he can't sing.

Originally posted by Pernille
You have no clue of what you're talking about. The term I used is probably the most describing thing one can say about them. Like I said, Scandinavian melancholy is a term very often used in reviews, it doesn't mean it's a genre or anything but it's very common "term" here, in everything, not only in music. So it's natural to use it if you're describing a band that really has that quality, element or whatever it is. It's just there. It's not making excuses.

You said it's used commonly across every genre. It's not.

Originally posted by Pernille
Bands themselves don't seem to mention it, although I've seen that too, but what I don't get is what is so wrong about it. It's not a made up term.

Bands don't use it because it's a shit thing to label yourself. You obviously have that "I need loads of labels to impress people who ask what I like" syndrome. Stop complaining that no bands are pushing envelopes when all you seem to do is find a way to catagorise them. Poorly at that.

Originally posted by Pernille
No, that's not what I meant. I meant the phrase is not used just in the rock/metal genre, it's used in every band of every genre who has it here.

So it's used alot in Scandinavia. Why does that mean it's used alot everywhere else in every genre? I think you confused yourself.

Originally posted by Pernille
And about Evanescence, you're still using excuses like "they're shit" and "they can't play", and no offence, but I believe more my own ears and what critics have to say.

You believe what critics have to say? Why? Because they write for a magazine? I could create a website dedicated to rating and reviewing albums, that would make me a critic.

The fact that they are technically shit musicians is what I'm basing my explanation on. Nothing they actually play is good. I can't hear the music for you and make you agree that it's shit, but the fact that they aren't good on their instruments is fact.

Originally posted by Pernille
That's subjective. Remember their age and experience. You don't expect them to have the same power and talent than some veteran bands. For their background and age, they are not ten times worse than others in their genre.

Amy Lee moans about her life and then goes to the MTV Awards saying that it's her dream to be there, while smiling her ass off and claiming she wanted to meet Justin Timberlake. Insincere? Yes. Fake? Yes.

Originally posted by Pernille
Terrible, bad, horrible... In other words, you're saying nothing. I think "Imaginary" had quite interesting hooks. "Hello" and "My Immortal" keep the listener waiting and waiting, when an average/bad ballad would have already burst ten times. They have some effort in their records, so I don't think they're the worst in what they do.

Thanks for proving my point. You're obviously a complete sucker for bands that sit at a piano and make "sad" songs.

Originally posted by Pernille
Nope. Not my style to base my opinion on one or two songs. And besides, those two ballads I mentioned are rather good efforts from their type of band.

No they're not are they? They're boring, cliched nonsense. The same as most other bands are putting out. Linkin Park are a horrid band. During an interview with Chester Bennington (Linkin Park) and Jonathan Davis (Korn) Chester stated that Amy Lee came to him and said that Evanescence's record label was trying to pressure them into making music like Linkin Park, in terms of song structure and having two singers. What happened? They brought out a debut featuring a duo-chorus, mirroring the dull and boring song structures of Linkin Park. Loud bit, quiet bit, loud bit, quiet bit.

So yeah, they're just a clone band and once again.

Anything else?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Cute threats and everything but I was basing my comment on what you said. When you use the phrase "Every band..." you're including every band, and I'm pretty sure you don't know every band. Needless to say, you are wrong.

Needless to say, nor do you know. Still, I am one hundred percent sure that every band on this planet rather gets a good review than a bad review. That was where I was referring to.

There's a difference between liking compliments and being concerned about what a magazine or writer says about your band or the music they make

Yeah, and where did I say there wasn't.

You claimed that every band cares. You're wrong.

No I didn't. I said I've seen many band care in that extent that it's not just "liking compliments" but pushing those reviews in people's faces. I did not say every band, I said many. Or it could be just some, but it does happen with bands who claim to be "independent".

Ok so you agree with me that it's a disgrace, yet you don't think that the disgraceful decision (a decision that H.I.M made, Bam didn't force them) isn't a reason to dislike the band? Despite them making the decision?

Yet again we're in this situation which has nothing to do with the music, great. Is their decision a reason not to like them? Let me say it in this way. If I thought RR was a good album yesterday, they made the decision today, would it be a reason not to like the album tomorrow? Hell no. Their image may be different now in some people's eyes, but I don't pay much attention to it. I care only for the music.

If you CLAIM to be "all about the music" not the fame, then you are saying that audience size doesn't matter. Do you see how contradictory that is? Yes. "I'm Ville Valo and I'm all about the music, but like, I got bored playing to dedicated fans so I decided to just let Bam feed our stuff to 13 year old girls." Do you see what happened? Ville claimed to not wanna be famous, yet he continually strived to get a bigger audience at ANY COST.

Oh boy. I thought we were already clear on that. The facts is that you CAN have success and you CAN be famous and you CAN be about music, none of these things exclude one another. Insert here what I said about The Beatles. They had screaming teenage fans who probably knew NOTHING about music and they're still considered one of the best bands in the world.

Overall, I think you're being a major hypocrite. I doubt you hate all the "good" bands like Blur, Massive Attack, Pink Floyd, Oasis even if they had success, sold records and had advertisement campaigns. It's always been a part of the game, it's nothing new or shocking. It doesn't bother me unless they

- sell their music by sex
- have other people writing music for them
- put down other bands/fans in a way it goes overboard

None of these apply to HIM.

When you claim to be an artist, claim to be about the music, only to compromise what you stand for in order to achieve more record sales, that's selling out, that's compromising your art and THAT does have a reflection on what you say, do or produce. Fact.

Shut it up already. Read above. There are bands that have sold shitloads of albums and they're still damn good bands. Grow up a little and see that it's not that black-and-white. It's very rare to have an artist or a band that don't care about sales at all if they're seriously in the business. It's not a sin to get kicks of seeing those masses loving your music and spreading good vibe through your art. Some long for it, some don't. Simple as that.

No, I said Ville sounds different. He still sounds shit. It's the mixture of his singing voice and that fake, cheesy european movie voice that he puts on.

HAHAHA.. Wtf. You can't expect a non-native English speaker to speak perfect English. Your stupidity is incredible. You already proved it with your comment about HIM not being from Scandinavia. (HAHAHAH!! I'm still laughing to that one....)

Yeah but outside of the studio, outside of the digital enhancement, he has a shit voice. He can't sing live. Because he relies on digital studio work to make him sound good. He's not. He's a terrible singer.

You know what, you don't create those ranges with digital enhancements. His singing voice is better on albums than live, which is very common with everyone. On some songs like "Beyond Redemption" you can hear that it's not straightout his voice, but you don't create those basic vocals with computers.

Oh, and believe it or not, they have also played some pretty good live gigs.

You said it's used commonly across every genre. It's not.

So it's used alot in Scandinavia. Why does that mean it's used alot everywhere else in every genre? I think you confused yourself.

Among Scandinavian artists, yes, it is. Of course not globally, what are you talking about?

You believe what critics have to say? Why? Because they write for a magazine? I could create a website dedicated to rating and reviewing albums, that would make me a critic.

Now listen up, you don't read anything what I write. Or then you only read it only HALF.

I said I BELIEVE IN MY OWN EARS. Yes, that's what I said, and I didn't forgot caps on.

I also said that if I had to choose between you and the critics I rather choose the one who actually know something and don't have every other word being "shit" or "crap". You can only guess who that is. Hint: it's NOT you.

The fact that they are technically shit musicians is what I'm basing my explanation on. Nothing they actually play is good. I can't hear the music for you and make you agree that it's shit, but the fact that they aren't good on their instruments is fact.

I never said they were the best musicians to walk on this planet, but they are not "shit". Linde is definitely not a bad guitarist. Have you heard his side profect? And Mige's not bad either.

Amy Lee moans about her life and then goes to the MTV Awards saying that it's her dream to be there, while smiling her ass off and claiming she wanted to meet Justin Timberlake. Insincere? Yes. Fake? Yes.

I'm still wondering what that has to do with anything.

Thanks for proving my point. You're obviously a complete sucker for bands that sit at a piano and make "sad" songs. [and blah blah about Evanescesence...]

You have some serious reading problems or something because I said several times that I WASN't a fan of any of those bands. It's a different thing to see the positive in something rather than point out the negative all the time. You're obviously not capable of doing that.