Originally posted by Pernille
What I was doing I was merely pointing out the fact that when it comes to working your ass off & not letting ANYONE else do the work for you, it's not that simple because it HAPPENS, you know, a LOT (people helping you), and so that was just an example of it. It was a friendly gesture from Paul & John to use their hard earned free time to go and compose a track for them, that was it and nobody complains about it as they shouldn't.
What happened after they composed the track? There was no more to be said. It was a one off, one song. Look, I'm not against industry friendships at all, by any stretch. My point is that if Ville wanted to be successful on a large scale JUST because he loved his music (which would have been fine) he should have worked and worked and worked at it. He didn't though, he took the short, easy and cash-rewarding road. He sold out. That, is fact.
Originally posted by Pernille
You say it's alllll ok if the Beatles crack a song for the Stones that just happens to be one of the songs that helped them to get signed & delivered to America to perform on Ed Sullivan etc. yet you're pretending like it's OMG if a dedicated fan of a band wants to let people know about that band that probably not many had heard before in the States. It's not a sin if you have friends having your back if it's still YOU who do the work, the music, it's a different thing to have all those zillions of songwriters and composers do the music FOR you.
Listen to me, for the last time.
If it was a one off directed video, or a one of production with no pushed media press, I could understand. Friends favours. It wasn't though was it? Bam directed the Sacrement video for them, fine. It should have stopped there OR if they DID want him to work with them, they could have at most just had him direct the videos.
They didn't. Ville realised that he didn't want to work to be successful. He gave up trying, he gave up the effort and he allowed Bam to push the music, push the image and push the work. He gave an ENTIRE disc on their Love Metal DVD to Bam. Why? Because he wanted it to sell lots so that he could make lots of money. He didn't do it on his own, he did it because of Bam.
Originally posted by Pernille
What really boggles me is the fact that Blur, Massive Attack and all the other bands I mentioned have had airtime on MTV (yes, the biggest & corrupted sellout network) yet you say NOTHING about it. Why? Because you're a HYPOCRITE. Every reply you make is storming about how "wrong" it is to let yourself be shown on MTV/sacrificing your art and be ok with it, yet all these other bands have done exactly the same thing and you don't even realize it.
How drastically ill informed you are dear boy. How sad.
Radiohead get featured rarely on MTV, Foo Fighters, Metallica even. It doesn't mean they're sell outs. It happens BECAUSE they are such huge bands. Radiohead don't TRY to get on MTV, it happens. They don't PUSH the image, the music or the videos onto MTV. H.I.M appearing on MTV once in a while doesn't make them sell outs, nor would I ever say it did. It happens and sometimes, no matter what, it's unavoidable. However, there comes a time when a line is crossed.
The Darkness for example. Their goal was always to play good, honest music to millions of people. They love the music and they wanted to be a band, like Queen, that everyone loved. No problem. If H.I.M wanted the same, that's fine. The Darkness wanted that goal but ONLY on their terms. They were never going to sell themselves out to get there. They either got there through trying, or they didn't wanna get there at all. The Darkness tried to break America, did FAIRLY well, but not as well as they hoped. They kept trying and kept trying and eventually got a rather dedicated fan base. At any point they could have let MTV mould them or let a TV show sell their music to make it easier, but they didn't. H.I.M did, to the worst possible person, Bam Margera. So before you try to debate what is and what isn't selling out, learn what the term means before throwing it about. It applies to H.I.M. Because they made a compromise in exchange for fame and fortune. They didn't get the fame and fortune on their own hard work.
Originally posted by Pernille
These bands do NOTHING to avoid that channel, they're probably glad & thrilled to have their music videos up there pushing in the faces of 13-15 year olds, the same age group that probably watches the Bam show.
Doing nothing to avoid it and doing everything to be on it are two different things. MTV, love or hate, are the biggest network of music coverage on Earth, most probably. It's hard to avoid them, like it or not. Massive Attack don't go knocking on MTV's door saying "Play our stuff." H.I.M clearly do and have done. So stop pulling shit out of thin air to try and validate your arguement.
Originally posted by Pernille
An average MTV viewer is prob almost the same as a person who watches Viva la Bam (or whatever the hell it's called, I do not know because I have never watched one single episode of that in my life)
I smell a hefty whiff of bullcrap here, but ok.
Originally posted by Pernille
So your excuse of that HIM are the only ones pushing their stuff in the throats of teenage girls is the lamest I've ever heard.
When did I say H.I.M are the only ones pushing their stuff in the throats of teenage girls? They're not the only band doing it. Doesn't make it any more right. They're still sellouts, because they made a COMPROMISE. Not because they happened to get their videos on MTV. Because they made a compromise for more fame and fortune. What are you not getting?
Originally posted by Pernille
If you are a 100% indie supporter, then I could understand it. Maybe. But you're not, you're a hypocrite.
No, you just don't know why I'm calling them sell outs. You think it's because they got their videos played on MTV. That's not why I'm calling them sellouts.
Originally posted by Pernille
You said you liked Blur? Well, then you probably know that Damon Albarn's side project is basically BASED ON music videos that run on MTV. The whole Gorillaz idea is based on visuality & trendy music and it's MOST definitely targeted to viewers of MTV. But, boy, oh boy, you say NOTHING about it. Why? Because you know what you are. You claim to be all educated & wise, but guess what, you're not.
Well despite the fact that yes, I am educated on music, I'll deal with your Gorillaz point.
Where is your evidence for that? Because let's be clear and true to our own consciences here, you made that up on the spot didn't you? If anything, Gorillaz are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Damon Albarn and Dan the Automator don't go on MTV saying "Buy Gorillaz albums". They don't get Johnny Knoxville to pimp their music. They don't even appear in their own videos. So think before you make stuff up.
Originally posted by Pernille
Am I wrong or making excuses? No I am not. You are.
Nice comeback, Mr O' Reilly. Did Woody Allen give you that one? Or did you come up with it on your own.
You're making excuses and blatantly misunderstanding my points because you know you're wrong and just don't know when to cut your losses. Clinging to your feeble lies and invalid points like a dying soldier.
-AC