Ragnos vs. Revan
I personally think Ragnos would rip Revan to tiny pieces, but I'm sure somebody thinks otherwise. So lets settle this.
(P.S.)I don't think Revan could take any of the Ancient Sith: Sadow, Ludo, Nadd, Hord. Revan is a peasant among kings compared to these Sith. The Mandalorians in KOTOR 2 even say Nadd was much worse than Revan and Malak were.
What are you going to settle this with? What evidence do we have of specific deeds Ragnos has done?
*Crickets chirp*
It is implied Ragnos is the more powerful of the two, however, we don't have that knowledge in canon to our disposal. There will never, unless a book/series is done about this, where we will know of the victor of this match.
Granted, I believe that anyone that does not put all their easter eggs into KotOR stock will believe Ragnos is the victor.
The mandalorian line though, seems to be a heavy implication as to the Ancient Sith's and resultingly, Ragnos's, power.
Ok, let me start by saying Illustrious and I have been debating this (pretty well) through PM's and we basically agreed that since we know so little about Ragnos, it's unfair to both to say that one is definitely stronge than the other or not.
Now as for your P.S., everything that's said is not necessarily fact. Anakin says he won't fail his mom again but he did. As for the Mandalorians, really, I can't believe you would even include that. It's a MANDALORIAN (not a Force user) saying that the STORIES say that Nadd was far WORSE (not necessarily more powerful) than Revan and Malak. Now look at where this is coming from, Dxun/Onderon which Nadd took over and obviously the stories there would say Nadd was terrible while stories from almost any other planet would not say he was that bad.
i agree with emperor and illustrious im getting angry of people saying ragnos is the most powerful sith ever and can kill anyone when they have no proof. And then they say ragnos's rule went unchallenged that barely says he was powerful that just implies it. I hate these kind of threads because I cant say who would win because of absence of evidence.
What has Ragnos accomplished? Yea that's what I thought.
Do we know anything about his power? Except for his spirit getting owned by a padawan we know nothing.
I'm getting really sick of people saying Ragnos is the most powerful when we have absolutley no proof supporting it at all, we know nothing about his power or any great accomplishments of his, all we know is that some sith were afraid of him but what does that tell us? how can we know they're fear was justified? For all we know he used fear or another sith power to make them afraid of him. Same applies to the other ancient sith, Tulak was the best duelist of his time and had the best form does that make him the overall best duelist of the sith, he might be he might not be all we know is that his form was the best. Sadow and people could throw stars, how would that make them good in a duel? How do we know that they had powers beyond telekenisis? Lord Revan had many more sources as well as teachings from these very sith and he learned all of it. Until we know more about these sith we shouldn't assume they're more powerful than anyone else as we have no proof supporting that there's no logic behind such an assumption it's not even an educated guess merely a guess at best so please until we know more about these sith lords don't be a noob and say they are better then anyone after them or the best sith because if you do you're just making stuff up and you don't know what you're talking about which makes you no better then supershadow.
Actually Marka Ragnos didn't lose to a padawan, he just gave Tavion a Force increase really. Here let me explain...
(Source: Wikipedia)
"Approximately four thousand years after the war of Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos's spirit once again returned from beyond the grave, this time summoned by a Sith cult known as the Disciples of Ragnos whose leader was Tavion, Desann's student. Though this cult was eventually defeated with Jaden Korr defeating Tavion, Ragnos's ghost escaped back to his tomb on Korriban, where he remains with the rest of the ancient Dark Lords, waiting to arise and threaten the galaxy again."
Marka didn't get owned by a padawan, he didn't get owned at all...anyway if memory serves right Jaden Korr was a Jedi Knight at the time. So with the little information that we have we can't decide the victor clearly.
Now about the Mandilorians saying Freedon Nadd was much worst, this could have been, because also most of the time quotes from people of KOTOR and KOTOR II games are somtimes used in Revan's favor, no matter who it is, so when some other Sith gets a quote in his favor, we have to honor it the same as we would a quote for Revan...If you use quotes to prove your point that is.
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
What has Ragnos accomplished? Yea that's what I thought.Do we know anything about his power? Except for his spirit getting owned by a padawan we know nothing.
I'm getting really sick of people saying Ragnos is the most powerful when we have absolutley no proof supporting it at all, we know nothing about his power or any great accomplishments of his, all we know is that some sith were afraid of him but what does that tell us? how can we know they're fear was justified? For all we know he used fear or another sith power to make them afraid of him. Same applies to the other ancient sith, Tulak was the best duelist of his time and had the best form does that make him the overall best duelist of the sith, he might be he might not be all we know is that his form was the best. Sadow and people could throw stars, how would that make them good in a duel? How do we know that they had powers beyond telekenisis? Lord Revan had many more sources as well as teachings from these very sith and he learned all of it. Until we know more about these sith we shouldn't assume they're more powerful than anyone else as we have no proof supporting that there's no logic behind such an assumption it's not even an educated guess merely a guess at best so please until we know more about these sith lords don't be a noob and say they are better then anyone after them or the best sith because if you do you're just making stuff up and you don't know what you're talking about which makes you no better then supershadow.
exactly my thoughts frobo
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
yes but even then the shadow of exar kun simultainiously force choked 12 people and ripped luke's spirit from his body, even if you're right which you probably are that just leaves us with absolutley positively nothing on Ragnos
Exar Kun absorbed the power of an entire race before he died. Ragnos did not.
Oh and btw, apparently there were civil wars going on against Ragnos, so the Sith did fight him but they stood no chance and always lost. Ragnos liked it that way because they wouldn't attack the republic.
Now everybody always says the ancient are more powerful then the new one's, Kreia, Mandelorians. So it could have a very good basis of truth. And once again Sith do not step down because they like somebody. They want there leaders dead especially a half blood like Marka Ragnos. Even if he would have used a gigantic fear thing on all of them he would be insanely powerful to do that.
So whats the other option? Them actually being scared for a reason, seeing as he probably didn't have a weapon that could kill every Sith in one second I'm just going to have to assume they were scared because he was so damn powerful. So he was really powerful.
More powerful then any other Sith and Jedi? IMO yes, do I know for sure? No.
I agree with Fishy on this one. While I don't have concrete evidence to say Ragnos is definately the best, I believe he is simply because of his reputation. Or to put it another way; if I had to bet on him and someone else in a fight, I'd bet on him. Why? Let me tell you...
Marka Ragnos ruled a Sith planet for a century and then some. With the exceptions of Freedan Nadd (Who took control of Onderon) and Sidious (who reigned for about thirty years over a nonSith Republic) no Sith has ruled for any reasonable amount of time, except to be overthrown or destroyed in an uprising. Now, Ragnos not only ruled for an amazing amount of time and died a NATURAL death in his own bed, unmolested by his scheming and hateful followers, but he did so over a totally Sith planet. The importance of this? Ragnos was SMART enough to play one side against the other to maintain his reign and keep his followers onplanet, he was STRONG enough to defend his reign, and he was POWERFUL enough that even on his deathbed, greats such as Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow would not so much as attempt to destroy him. They lived in fear, these followers whose Sith magics are the stuff of legends.
I don't know, maybe that's enough for me. It is a conditional belief: If all that is true, then Ragnos must have been the baddest, biggest fish in the Sith pond. And that makes himthe darkside equivalent to NJO Luke, as far as I am concerned. Also, it speaks for Exar Kun's ability that he was picked by Ragnos himself to be the dark lord in what Ragnos predicted was the Golden Age of the Sith. (But on a side note, wasn't there an amulet that aided Kun's powers?)
Anyways, back on topic... A couple of you despise Ragnos and his reputation that has grown on this board. Mkay. Fine. You wish to disprove it? Please try. But just keep in mind- Just as one side can't say for certain he was stronger, the other can't prove he was weaker. We remain in stasis until some official source comes to break the tie-breaker.
Well when KOTOR 3 comes out, if Revan defeated the Ancient Sith which one would be Ragnos then I would drop this arguement, but for now if you lock Ragnos and Revan in a room Revan's tactics won't save him from the beating Ragnos would give him. The pictures of Ragnos just look like evil. When I think of Sith I think of Ragnos.