Well okay, but according to GL and logical thinking, you have Anakin who could become 200% Sidious. Luke is his son so he would only have half of his dad in him, he would be as powerful as Sidious at max.
Well you look at the NJO books he is far more powerful then Sidious could ever hope to be.
I like things like that, always usefull in a debate against the NJO series who suck anyways.
Originally posted by Fishy
Well okay, but according to GL and logical thinking, you have Anakin who could become 200% Sidious. Luke is his son so he would only have half of his dad in him, he would be as powerful as Sidious at max.
Yeah. You have Anakin being 200 % Sidious (full potential). But according to genetics Luke can posess 50, 75 or even 100 % of Anakins potential and that is the problem. You can simply say that 50 or 100 % won't work (seing that NJO Luke is more powerful than Sidious, having Lucas saying that Anakin would have been the most powerful force user ever). Now that leaves the 75 % or 150 % Sidious.
Than you can throw in the light side / dark side question (Which one is stronger ?), argue that Luke is more powerful because using both sides (to a certain degree), do a few saltos in your thoughts and end up with NJO Luke being the most powerful force user that ever hit the shores of the not existing oceans of Coruscant.
100% his father? Thats impossible.
Dark Side and Light Side there is no stronger side, for a true master. For a noob yeah the Dark Side will be more powerful but that means nothing.
Seeing as a lot of people are more powerful then Sidious we can easily come to the conclusion that 150% Sidious is not all that much, and that is if Luke is lucky and has more dad then mom in him.
And like I said people like Revan, Exar, Malak, Ulic, Tulak, Ragnos, Sadow, Nadd. They would all easily be 150% Sidious and they would all easily be able to match Luke then. GL heavily limits EU if what he says is true, so from now on everytime his word is used it can just piss off at least IMO.
Alright, if Luke is even 100% of Sidious, why did he become the cloned emperor's apprentice? It's because he knew he couldn't win, correct? And when they eventually did fight, it was with the help of Leia that he was able to survive. So he was outmatched by Palpatine there. But later on, in the NJO series, he's got Force powers that make Superman the movie's Rebuilding the Wall of China Vision seem scientific. SO he obviously surpassed Anakin's potential according to some EU authors. And that means they contradicted GL, making NJO Luke.... noncanon.
But the official definition of even EU quasi canon is that it doesn't directly contradict GL or his works on the movies. Now, anything GL says in reference to the movies is taken as canon. Also, it adds background information to the movies from a non-EU source, the man himself. So if GL says that Anakin has the potential of double what SIdious is, and Luke genetically can only have so much of his father's potential, NJO Luke is way out of order.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Alright, if Luke is even 100% of Sidious, why did he become the cloned emperor's apprentice? It's because he knew he couldn't win, correct? And when they eventually did fight, it was with the help of Leia that he was able to survive. So he was outmatched by Palpatine there. But later on, in the NJO series, he's got Force powers that make Superman the movie's Rebuilding the Wall of China Vision seem scientific. SO he obviously surpassed Anakin's potential according to some EU authors. And that means they contradicted GL, making NJO Luke.... noncanon.
Oh Janus...
Sidious in the Dark Empire comics had this nice crystal that added greatly to his force powers. I mean LOOK at what he does in that comics. And the NJO series is 20 years after Dark Empire meaning Luke was not even close to his full potential during DE times.
revan wasn't as powerful in the force as ragnos and everyone knows more about revan then ragnos infact isnt ajunta paull the only ancient sith we know even less about then ragnos? so ya ragnos no one knows alot abbout him but i'm not too sure who'd win but either way it's not an easy task for either of them.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Ragnos was constantly challenged because he made all Sith focus their attacks on him since he didn't want them to attack the Republic. It is said that he killed tons of people in duels or simply assasinated them to keep control over the Sith Empire.
There has to be a reason why people like Sadow didn't even try to attack him and Sith didn't care much about political influence of a person - if the person is getting weak he will get killed. Simple rules.Sadow had lots of time to kill Ragnos as well as other people had. He was Dark Lord for over a century (as far as I remember 150 years). So they could have killed him YEARS before he was lying on his death bed but still nobody did try at least not in the last years of his reign.
That is simply wrong. The Sith Empire under Ragnos contained serveral worlds and Ragnos being the Dark Lord reigned over the entire Empire. That includes worlds like Malachor V, Ziost and so on. It was not as great as the republic but it is said to be much wealthier. And it was superior in terms of technological developments because of Sith alchemy and Sith magic. Remember that Exar Kun invented things that were able to blow up an entire star system when people in the republic needed 4,000 years longer to develop something that could destroy a single planet or a star system (Death Star and Sun Hammer).
Still all that things don't say anything about Ragnos sheer force powers. There must have been a reason why Sith Lords even feared his spirit. As you can see Exar Kun nearly killing 12 people when he was a spirit and Freedon Nadd did kill King Omnin (I hope that name was right ?) you might just guess what Ragnos could do as a spirit. And there is this statement from Kreia...she said that Ragnos posessed more power than people in KOTOR times can even dream about (that includes Revan).
Ok, good enough. I really don't have much else to add except that people rarely attacked other dark lords of the Sith, Revan, Malak, Kun, Palpatine, Vader, were never (or very rarely) fought to try and assume their rank so I don't think Ragnos fought as much as what people think. Next, where does it say that Ragnos made all of the Sith fight him instead of the Republic? Why would he do that if his empire and him are so powerful? Look at Revan or Kun. Revan took 1/3 of the Republic forces, came back a year later and dominated the war against the Republic (with some help from the Star Forge) but Kun didn't do a bad job, heck, neither did Sadow. So was Ragnos lazy, stupid, afraid, or what?
Next, we saw what Ragnos did as a spirit. His spirit was charged full with Force energy, took over Tavion's body (who wasn't too shabby) had a sith sword and still lost to a jedi knight (granted a powerful one).
And last but definitely not least, I have never heard Kreia say that remark about Ragnos and I would definitely like to know when she says it.
Well I'm saying they probably knew they weren't strong enough and didn't fight him. Therefore, Ragnos wouldn't be constantly fighting and would slowly get weaker. But you know how much I hate it when people say characters we know one or two things about are all powerful and can never be beaten etc. Ragnos does have more things going for him then others though but IMO not enough. Like Janus said, it's really unfair to both to say that either is stronger at this point.
It is, but well you just have to go by what you have and that with Ragnos sounds more impressive. Is it? I don't know it just sounds more impressive. Really we can't even make a good educated guess on the winner just a mild guess but thats what this thread is asking for. It doesn't really call for a debate