Wolverine Vs Elektra

I just mentioned that the scanner is at work. At any rate, attached is the issue I am referencing.

Note that this comic book was not written in the traditional panel with chat bubble format. It had dialogue on the left of the page and art on the right.

Notice the picture in the middle. Blah, lemme run upstairs and grab it...

"The woman landed lightly in the snow, a sai in each hand, and immediately launched herself at him, lunging and swiping. She was wearing white silk that made her hard to see against the white snow, wrapped tight around her body but looser around her limbs, and Logan tumbled away, snapping out his claws and praying that the woman wasn't a real ninja. But her first attacks came swift and silent, and as Logan struggled to put himself between the assassin and the two women he knew this one was te real deal, had been trained in the old ways, and he knew they were now in real trouble.

The ninja came again with the sai, and he barely managed to throw up parries fast enough (HELLO, I said she was quicker) to keep her back, meeting her blades with his claws. She was fantastically quick (HELLO), and inherently dishonest, feinting and faking. He tried to draw her in close, then swipe low, and she danced in as if falling for it, then spun away, batting his attack low, and almost taking his throat with the other. Logan kicked up snow as he fought to regain his balance, stumbling, then lashing out with his right as she came in again, landing lucky on her left thigh. The tips of his claws split silk and then skin, and blood spattered on the snow, and he growled in satisfaction.

Then realized he had been tricked again, that she'd allowed him the wound only to draw him out, and that in so doing, Avery and her mother were exposed...

Logan sprang with a roar, claws outstretched and straining through the air. She turned as he came, putting herself in front of Avery, and then, at the last moment, pivoting out of his path.

He saw his mistake then, and everything slowed down, but not enough to stop it. He tried anyway, dropping his left arm to rake at the ninja, but she knew what she was doing, and in a way, he had to admire that. She just dropped back on a haunch, letting him pass over her, and the she exploded upwards.

Logan felt the tip of each sai punch into his chest, one after the other, the force of their impact rolling him in the air. She followed the blows, turning him, driving the blades deep, and he screamed as much in outrage as in pain. Then the scream died as his lungs collapsed, and he felt the searing agony as the points pushed past bone and out again. He hit the ground on his back, the ninja atop him, one knee in his gut, and she turned each blade once, then yanked them free."

That was the first time they met in the arc. Second time?

"I've killed you once," Elektra said. "I will do it again." He grinned, not because he didn't believe her (HELLO), but because he absolutely did. He suspected that Elektra never made threats; she just kept promises."

That's my point. She's out of his league. Simple.

Yes Wolverine was "100% and in top shape."

Edit: didn't bother checking for typos. I proofread enough as an editor at work; this is for free.

Forgot to attach the issue.

And haha @ Elektra doesn't have enough. Forgot that she deflects bullets with her fist, she has a sonic scream, was trained by Stick, punches straight through body armor, and moves so quickly she's a blur?

Punched through bone? Wolverine's? Wow...tough sai.

Originally posted by demigawd
Sadly, I can confirm what they're saying. It's all true, and Wolverine admitted it again this past issue of his own series. Elektra got owned by Gorgon (again) even after both Wolverine and Elektra ambushed him and had all kinds of tech to prevent him from using any of his powers. Wolverine, having seen said ownage, then thought to himself, "You're a world class ninja, Elektra. If he did that to YOU, what chance do I have?".

So according to Millar, at least, Elektra > Wolverine. Also, he believes that Daredevil > Wolverine. Now, that's just one writer's view of it, and Millar is slightly biased, given that he basically created Elektra.

Personally, I can't accept it either way. There doesn't have to be a set hierarchy for every single character in my opinion.

So Elektra can beat Wolverine?I can live with that.

Originally posted by demigawd
Now, that's just one writer's view of it, and Millar is slightly biased, given that he basically created Elektra.

Mark Millar did not create Elektra, Frank Miller did.

Oh, a slightly biased writer allowed Bullseye to not only defeat, but KILL Elektra?

Daredevil is superior to Wolverine in h2h. That is common knowledge.

And Daredevil dropped Bulleye from that long distance and Bullseye broke all of his bones in his body.😄

That was really funny. 😆

Originally posted by Never
Mark Millar did not create Elektra, Frank Miller did.

Oh, a slightly biased writer allowed Bullseye to not only defeat, but KILL Elektra?

Daredevil is superior to Wolverine in h2h. That is common knowledge.

The one fight DD had with Wolverine ended in three panels after DD attack Wolverine he was in a full nelson. Wolverine is a better fighter then DD by a great deal (so is Elektra by the way).

Elektra has gotten upgrades since she was killed by Bullseye, pick up almost any issue of Elektra v2 to see what I'm talking about.

Interesting.

DD is a better hand2hand fighter than wolverine???

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The one fight DD had with Wolverine ended in three panels after DD attack Wolverine was in a full nelson. Wolverine is a better fighter then DD by a great deal (so is Elektra by the way).

Wolverine is far better -- is that why Daredevil dropped him with a single karate chop to the throat?

Wolverine is a far better fighter -- is that why Sabretooth regularly stalemated/one ups Wolverine, yet when Sabretooth met Daredevil, Daredevil DESTROYED Sabretooth?

http://allsf.net/Images/SFbd/US1/Daredevil%20238.jpg <--- for your referencing pleasure

What happened when Daredevil met Iron Fist? How far above Wolverine is Iron Fist? WAAAAAAAAY above.

Matters not that Elektra has upgrades. Point being if Miller was biased towards Elektra she'd have never been allowed to be killed by Bullseye.

Insert quarter, try again.

For those asking about Daredevil being superior in h2h, what does h2h mean to you? If I met any of you in a ring, it means just you and I. No knives, no healing factor, no pipes, no enhancements, no claws.

Hand 2 hand. My training/experience vs. yours.

Originally posted by Never
Wolverine is far better -- is that why Daredevil dropped him with a single karate chop to the throat?

Wolverine is a far better fighter -- is that why Sabretooth regularly stalemated/one ups Wolverine, yet when Sabretooth met Daredevil, Daredevil DESTROYED Sabretooth?

What happened when Daredevil met Iron Fist? How far above Wolverine is Iron Fist? WAAAAAAAAY above.

Insert quarter, try again.

DD dropped Wolverine in a Ennis book.... the same book where Wolverine was knocked across statelines by the Hulk with out getting knocked out.

Sigh... why isn't that people bring up Sabretooth and DD's fight? Every time someone takes the person who brings it up and slowly explains to them that this was before Sabretooth was... well Sabretooth. Marvel hadn't decided he was Wolverines rival, he had no healing factor he had no military combat experience, he didn't have his physical stats... he was just an animal-like nut job.

Iron Fist is waaaaaaaaaay above Wolverine eh? Yeah differently showed it when he fought Junzo eh? Hehe... oh wait he got pawned where as Wolverine held is own pretty well. Yes I know all about the time IF threw Wolverine out of the window... but that Wolverine was so out of character you after question the credibility of anyone who takes it seriously.

Wolverine has owned Shang Chi, several of Shang Chi's villians and beaten Mr X twice (the guy beat Cat in like 8 seconds!). All of these guys are better then Iron Fist.... and Elektra... and Dare Devil.

EDIT: He also beat Gamora twice

Originally posted by Never
Wolverine is far better -- is that why Daredevil dropped him with a single karate chop to the throat?

Wolverine is a far better fighter -- is that why Sabretooth regularly stalemated/one ups Wolverine, yet when Sabretooth met Daredevil, Daredevil DESTROYED Sabretooth?

http://allsf.net/Images/SFbd/US1/Daredevil%20238.jpg <--- for your referencing pleasure

What happened when Daredevil met Iron Fist? How far above Wolverine is Iron Fist? WAAAAAAAAY above.

Matters not that Elektra has upgrades. Point being if Miller was biased towards Elektra she'd have never been allowed to be killed by Bullseye.

Insert quarter, try again.

For those asking about Daredevil being superior in h2h, what does h2h mean to you? If I met any of you in a ring, it means just you and I. No knives, no healing factor, no pipes, no enhancements, no claws.

Hand 2 hand. My training/experience vs. yours.

So you are arguing fighting efficiency, or fighting proficiency??

Wolverine should win, for obvious reasons:

1. He is - probably - stronger

2. He is much more durable

3. Has greater stamina

4. Has more experience - make that much much much more experience

5. Can take much more pain than Elektra

6. Can stab her to death with one punch (d'oh)

7. Is as good a fighter as Elektra, and please, if there's any difference, it won't be much. And if she's such an experienced fighter, why was Bullseye - B-character - able to kill her without much effort ? He used her own sais if I remember correctly.

Did I forget anything ? People (teenagers) drool over Elektra. Publishers know this, and try to make her as cool as possible in order to sell sell sell ! And what's cooler than "owning" Wolverine ?

But I don't care. The longer the fight takes, the more it will go to the Hairy One.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Wolverine should win, for obvious reasons:

1. He is - probably - stronger

2. He is much more durable

3. Has greater stamina

4. Has more experience - make that much much much more experience

5. Can take much more pain than Elektra

6. Can stab her to death with one punch (d'oh)

7. Is as good a fighter as Elektra, and please, if there's any difference, it won't be much. And if she's such an experienced fighter, why was Bullseye - B-character - able to kill her without much effort ? He used her own sais if I remember correctly.

Did I forget anything ? People (teenagers) drool over Elektra. Publishers know this, and try to make her as cool as possible in order to sell sell sell ! And what's cooler than "owning" Wolverine ?

But I don't care. The longer the fight takes, the more it will go to the Hairy One.

Well to be fair Bullseye used to be a grade A martial artists... but somewhere down the line he forgot that he was

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
DD dropped Wolverine in a Ennis book.... the same book where Wolverine was knocked across statelines by the Hulk with out getting knocked out.

Not sure what your point is. Why not mention when Punisher absolutely destroyed Wolverine in Wolverine #186 (Ennis)? 😉 Daredevil is MORE than quick enough to drop Wolverine in an area many target (erm do recall in Arcade's training ground when Mystique ran into the Wolverine clone, what did she attack? his throat)

Sigh... why isn't that people bring up Sabretooth and DD's fight? Every time someone takes the person who brings it up and slowly explains to them that this was before Sabretooth was... well Sabretooth. Marvel hadn't decided he was Wolverines rival, he had no healing factor he had no military combat experience, he didn't have his physical stats... he was just an animal-like nut job.

Daredevil #238, 1987. Uncanny #212 (you know, when he waltzed onto the premises, downed Rogue without zero problem, was sooooooooo quick (um, "SLASH"😉 and Wolverine could only stalemate him), December 1986. He had his physical "stats," you are incorrect. Read the comic book again where he mocks Wolverine saying "they say you're strong. I'm stronger. They say you're fast. I'm faster" et cetera. If he was not Wolverine's rival (do you work for Marvel?) then why on earth was there a HUGE buildup for the fight? Why on earth is it worth so much? IF you have the comic book read again precisely what Wolverine says when he headbutts Sabretooth. Show me exactly where Sabretooth was "weak."

Iron Fist is waaaaaaaaaay above Wolverine eh? Yeah differently showed it when he fought Junzo eh? Hehe... oh wait he got pawned where as Wolverine held is own pretty well. Yes I know all about the time IF threw Wolverine out of the window... but that Wolverine was so out of character you after question the credibility of anyone who takes it seriously.

LMAO, and Wolverine hanging with one considered easily to be amongst the top earth-based combatants is "good" writing? Puhleese.

Wolverine has owned Shang Chi, several of Shang Chi's villians and beaten Mr X twice (the guy beat Cat in like 8 seconds!). All of these guys are better then Iron Fist.... and Elektra... and Dare Devil.

EDIT: He also beat Gamora twice

Wolverine touching Shang Chi OR Gamora is about as realistic as Wolverine defeating Lobo, Batman defeating Hulk, and Wolverine tearing through Surfer's chest.

I could not care less about the reasons why Wolverine SHOULD win. He already had his ass handed to him. He LOST as he SHOULD have.

ROFL @ Bullseye "Elektra without much effort." I forgot, this is the SAME guy who said Onslaught "beat the hell out of Hulk" and that Thor slapped Hulk around in Hulk #300. Better reread Elektra #181.

Originally posted by Never

Not sure what your point is. Why not mention when Punisher absolutely destroyed Wolverine in Wolverine #186 (Ennis)? 😉 Daredevil is MORE than quick enough to drop Wolverine in an area many target (erm do recall in Arcade's training ground when Mystique ran into the Wolverine clone, what did she attack? his throat)

Daredevil #238, 1987. Uncanny #212 (you know, when he waltzed onto the premises, downed Rogue without zero problem, was sooooooooo quick (um, "SLASH"😉 and Wolverine could only stalemate him), December 1986. He had his physical "stats," you are incorrect. Read the comic book again where he mocks Wolverine saying "they say you're strong. I'm stronger. They say you're fast. I'm faster" et cetera. If he was not Wolverine's rival (do you work for Marvel?) then why on earth was there a HUGE buildup for the fight? Why on earth is it worth so much? IF you have the comic book read again precisely what Wolverine says when he headbutts Sabretooth. Show me exactly where Sabretooth was "weak."

LMAO, and Wolverine hanging with one considered easily to be amongst the top earth-based combatants is "good" writing? Puhleese.

Wolverine touching Shang Chi OR Gamora is about as realistic as Wolverine defeating Lobo, Batman defeating Hulk, and Wolverine tearing through Surfer's chest.

I could not care less about the reasons why Wolverine SHOULD win. He already had his ass handed to him. He LOST as he SHOULD have.

ROFL @ Bullseye "Elektra without much effort." I forgot, this is the SAME guy who said Onslaught "beat the hell out of Hulk" and that Thor slapped Hulk around in Hulk #300. Better reread Elektra #181. [/B]

Ennis writes pure crap, his Punisher is god and goes around make other heroes look like chumps. Using Ennis Punisher in a debate is like using Hamma's Batman IMO. (and Wolver 186 was made in responce to Punisher 18 where Frank beat Wolverine)

Yeah I just checked those two issues you where right... for some reason I had some dates mixed up and thought the DD one came before the Mutant Masacer buuuuuut since it didn't it gets thrown of has huge example of PIS seeing as Sabretooth would fold DD like a lawn chair with one hit.

You are aware that Marvel rates Wolverine as one of there top martial artists? The only ones that are up there with him are Captain America, Cable and Mr. X; even Stick immites how skilled Wolverine is. Wolverine has shown him self to be one of the best fighters in Marvel and he will keep doing it.

Annnnnnd once again Rucka's Wolverine and Elektra: Redeemer was (to the best of my believe) not in continuity. Its about as solid as Punisher kills the Marvel universe... or a fanfic.

When did Logan beat Gamora?

Originally posted by Never
Out of continuity means plenty. I love how people conveniently use them to support an already flawed argument. You people act as if out of continuity comic books are incorrect, inaccurate depictions of a character and their abilities. The writers are quite aware of what the characters are capable of and, with a FEW few exceptions, they are on point. It just so happens that most people simply use them to disagree when painted into a corner.

Captain Marvel using magical lightning in Kingdom Come to bring Superman to his knees. Perfectly in line with what Captain Marvel can do, considering magic items/magic renders Superman vulnerable.

Batman beating Superman's arse in Dark Knight Returns and Dark Knight Strikes Back. Perfectly in line with what Batman is capable of doing with preparation and resources. Did Superman go all out? No. Is Superman a killer? No. Batman knows this and almost always uses it against him. Batman is THE king of prep amongst nigh ANY non-cosmic in JLA. Period. Give him prep time and he will bring down the entire JLA.

Whoops, he already did.

Elektra destroying Wolverine in Elektra and Wolverine by Greg Rucka. Despite what most of you claim, Elektra is a top-tier martial artist/ninja. She is just an eensy notch below Shiva. She is a killer. Wolverine is not. She is much quicker and faster than Wolverine. She has been trained by far better mentors (I dare any of you to challenge Stick's martial arts prowess). She punched two holes in Wolverine's chest and left him for dead. He landed *one* blow and she purposely led him in to expose himself. He did. She landed. Game over.

I have the mini-series. My scanner is at work. If any would like exact quotes and/or scans, say the word.

Wolverine is not a killer? Dude, have you even read one Wolverine comic book in your life? Seriously, he's killed more people in the last six months than Elektra has in her lifetime.

Just read both Marvel biographies and honestly tell me that Elektra is "quicker" and "faster" than Wolverine. Mark Millar's justification for Elektra beating Wolverine was the fact that can catch bullets and turn herself invisible. As far as training goes, Wolverine was trained by Ogun, a man who makes Stick look like a helpless old blind man with a cane. Ogun was/is an virtually unbeatable warrior who's combat skills were/are so incredible that they are/were considered second to none. Not even Stick can compare. Wolverine's fighting skills are so good that he is said to have mastered virtually every form of combat on the planet. This is the guy who actually did well in a fight against Omega Red and Lady Deathstrike. He was fighting them simultaneously and without his healing factor so the fact that he could even stand up to both of them at once is quite remarkable. Wolverine's fighting skills are an entire league above Elektra's. Not to mention the fact that he outclasses her in strength, durability, speed, experience, and let's face it, intelligence. Wolverine's fighting ability is on par with Captain America, and both have been portrayed as being more worthy hand-hand combatants than Batman. Batman surely one of the best, but compared to Wolverine, he's a five-year-old karate student. Heck, Wolverine is leagues above Shiva. I'm not a fanboy, I simply know and understand the character well. I know that if Wolverine ever did manage to land a shot against Elektra she would certainly go down. Even if he didn't use his claws. Think about it for a second. What happens when a normal human female with NO KNOWN super powers gets hit by a man with unbreakable fists and feat? Any guesses?? She goes down like a ton of bricks. Any guess what happens if he decides to pop his claws?? She dies hard. Who's the biggest enemy Elektra has faced in hand to hand combat? Bullseye? Kingpin perhaps?? Who has Wolverine managed to defeat using hand to hand combat skills? Hulk, Omega Red, the Thing, Spider-man, Lady Deathstrike, Mr.X, Ogun, etc..dude...seriously even mentioning Elektra and Wolverine in the same breath should be considered a mortal sin.

Here's logically how a fair fight between Logan and Elektra would pan out as long as the writer did justice to both characters.

Elektra attacks Wolverine with her sais showing supreme skill and effort. Logan, seeing this a million times before from a million different ninja's tries to make a decision as to whether he will counter Elektra's attack, or duck out for a second to light a cigar. He chooses the latter as Elektra stands there completely bewildered as to where her opponent has disppeared to. She turns around sees Logan standing fifteen feet away looking at her with a big grin on his face . A lit cigar hanging from his lips:

Wolverine: Sorry, darlin' but the view caught my eye. Sides' that pretty rear end o' yours is too good to go to waste. I'm in a good mood and the night's young.

Elektra: You're not match for me Wolverine; I'm the world's greatest ninja!

Wolverine: Mark Millar aint writin' this series, lady.

Elektra: Oh...crap.

Wolverine: Way I see it, darlin', ya can either fight me an' lose. Or you an' me can make peace. Hit the town together or call it even. We go our separate ways and it's no big deal. I got no beaf with you, if you've got none with me.

Elektra infurated lunges at Wolverine. Wolverine simply side-steps the attack and trips Elektra. Wolverine pulls the cigar out of his mouth.

Wolverine: I don't wanna fight you, girl. But you're not leavin' me much of a choice.

Elektra: I'm the world's greatest ninja, Mark Millar said so!

In a last attempt to desperately defeat Wolverine, she throws every move she knows at him. Wolverine simply side-steps every blow, grinning the whole time and taking time to flick the ashes from his cigar. On her last advancement, Wolverine grabs her by the arms with his right hand the same way he did to X-23 in Uncanny.

Wolverine: Hate to do this to such a pretty face.

Wolverine then strikes her temple with his left hand rendering Elektra unconscious and possibly dead. Wolverine calmly puts out his cigar, and walks away. Fight over.

With Wolverine's powers, someone like Elektra shouldn't even be able to cause serious damage. Without Wolverine's powers, Elektra scores some good blows, but still goes down. There's just no other way I can see the outcome coming out differently unless I completely suspend all logical reasoning within my own mind.

Elektra will always do better than him in the fights because you can't have your hot chick get graphically slashed to ribbons, it just won't sell books.

THAT is the only reason why she beats Wolverine.

Originally posted by Never
Forgot to attach the issue.

And haha @ Elektra doesn't have enough. Forgot that she deflects bullets with her fist, she has a sonic scream, was trained by Stick, punches straight through body armor, and moves so quickly she's a blur?

Everything you've just said about Elektra can be said about Wolverine ten fold. He doesn't need to deflect bullets, he is practically invulnerable to them. He has dodged machine gun fire by moving so fast that the Yakuza never even saw him move. He has taken machine gun fire to the belly, face, and throat. It only makes him mad. Wolverine, as I have pointed out was trained by Ogun; a man who was at least Stick's equal in hand to hand combat. She punches through body armor? As ridiculous and nonsensical as that is, Logan can cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. He even cuts Hulk to ribbons, so there's question as to who's "punch" is more lethal. Just one hit from Logan - claws in or out - is enough to kill Elektra. As far as a sonic scream goes, even if she did possess such abilities, Logan has proven that he is capable of fighting at his best even if his eardrums have been destroyed. I highly doubt she can tear the skin off his flesh with just her screams. You're making her sound as if she's Wonder Woman here. Oh, and why would Wolverine pray that Elektra isn't a real ninja? Has he suddenly forgotten that he consistantly is capable of taking down scores of the Hands finest? I guess by implying that Elektra is the only real ninja he's ever faced, you are saying that the Hand are not real ninja's.

The fact is, Elektra doesn't have any super-powers. Making her out to be like Neo from the matrix is absolutely ridiculous simply because there has never been anything established with the Marvel continuity explaining why she would possess such abilities. She's a normal human who can tap into some mystic power. Wolverine is no different and, at most, they could possibly fight to a draw. She even admitted herself that Wolverine is faster and stronger, and tougher than her. Case closed. If you want, go check out what Marvel actually says about these characters. Here are the official stats, if you're curious in reading the cold hard facts instead of basing your arguement off of lame, know-nothing comic-book writing.

Wolverine

Intelligence - 2/7

Speed - 2/7

Strength - 4/7

Durability - 4/7

Energy protection - 1/7

Fighting Skills - 7/7

Elektra

Intelligence - 3/7

Speed - 2/7

Strength - 2/7

Durability - 3/7

Energy protection - 1/7

Fighting skills - 6/7

You can clearly see, that according to Marvel, Wolverine is Elektra's superior in every way that matters. He's an entire league above her in fighting skills, two entire leagues above her in strength and tied with her for speed and energy protection. The only area she is superior to him is intelligence. There you have it. The evidence is conclusive. Elektra beating Wolverine in a fair fight where both opponents are at there best is ridiculous. Wolverine is her superior.