cap. marvel (shazam) v silver surfer

The lightning comes from the wizard Shazam. Surfer could use telepathy and predict the lightning. He'd have no problem dodging it, since lightning only travels at about 40% lightspeed, and Surfer's beyond lightspeed.

Who has Surfer fought, in a dire situation, while bloodlusted, and has had the option of turning them to stone, and didn't? Mad Thor isn't a good example. Surfer certainly wasn't bloodlusted, and Thor's got a lot to answer with. Simply because he hasn't used the ability in certain situations doesn't mean that he doesn't possess it. That's the purpose of the vs forum. In a comic book, it's the writer's call. On this board, anything goes.

Stan Lee intended the Silver Surfer to be every bit as powerful as he is portrayed at his best. Surfer has used his power to transmute his opponents matter more than once, and he has done so pretty recently. This isn't like Thor stopping time. Such an ability can't be simply dismissed.

I love Captain Marvel (CM) threads, and I just don't know why...

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Il'll go with Surfer, more often than not. CM does stand a chance, but I don't think avoiding CM's lightining would be a big problem for Surfer. Most of the time, Surfer takes this.>>

depends - it's magical and sort of just 'appears'. ss likely wouldn't have any sense of it before it actually strikes him. i think cm could hit him with it, i'm just not sure it would be enough to put ss down.

and i'm not sure where i stand with the turning to stone argument, cc. this gets into one of the areas i HATE in these vs threads - if he's able to do that whenever he wants, why doesn't he? and don't say it's because all the fights would be boring. ss seems to NEVER be shown using ALL his power because ALL his fights would be too boring. ss's been in some VERY dire straights against opponents and never turned THEM to stone - or anything else. it would have come in handy v mad thor - -they wouldn't have had to go to thanos! and didn't he have some mental block or something about changing organic matter? then he overcame it and now he can? still, to be viable, i think it needs to be shown with more frequency and against people of cm's level. it's similar to me to the superman becoming intangible thing. i (personally) don't consider THAT viable either, for the same reason. but, that may be just me . . .

He took hit from entire Avenger when amped.

Took world destroying attack from Korvac

And SS is better than Thor , Drax , Champion you name it , marvel has basically stated many times SS is the most powerful.

And manipulation will always work on CM , and he can also turn him into his board like CM ( marvel)

he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?

Originally posted by leonidas
he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?

Did you read that issue?

It wasn't magic only: it was cosmic (SS own) , and other energies + magic

And second time is when SS was drained.

And how does CM stop him from tuning him to energy and making him one with his board?

Originally posted by leonidas
he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?

I'm not sure if he can turn people back to normal after transmuting them. Morg has control over his own molecules. Turning him to stone wouldn't work.

Shazam (the wizard) has a portion of Zeus's power. The lightning comes from Shazam, not Zeus himself. Surfer could generate lightning, and turn him back into Billy.

CM's lightning has a homing effect now? 🤨

Surfer once mind controlled the entire Earth with his telepathy. It's not just passive.

Everyone gets hit. That's a one of the rules of being in an interesting fight. Doesn't mean it should happen, especially if he's on top of his game.

Superman became invisible twice. "Intangible" once. There are still quite a few factors in that fight.

I don't see why turning CM into stone wouldn't work.

<<Shazam (the wizard) has a portion of Zeus's power. The lightning comes from Shazam, not Zeus himself. >>

huh?? got proof?

<<I'm not sure if he can turn people back to normal after transmuting them. Morg has control over his own molecules. Turning him to stone wouldn't work.>>

so he could change anyone below HERALD level (warlock, strange, thor, gladiator) into stone . . .? for some reason, i'm thinking that's not the case. and if he can control matter (organic AND inorganic) why the heck COULDN'T he change them back??

<<Surfer once mind controlled the entire Earth with his telepathy. It's not just passive.>.

so how is controlling someone the same as reading their mind and predicting an attack? are you saying now that he could simply possess cm mentally and shut him down? are you friggin' kidding me . . . and you guys crack on supes' peeps for saying THEY add new powers to HIM all the time!

<<CM's lightning has a homing effect now?>>

seems reasonable. why wouldn't it? it IS magical . . . and besides, show me a scan where he's ever missed with it. and you think ANY lightning would change cm back to billy? funny, i thought it was the magic properties that did it. does that mean any lightning bolt that hits jimmy olson will turn him INTO cm?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340458&highlight=silver+surfer+shazam

We have been through this before.

If silver surfer can destroy a star, captain marvel will be like a little ant's baby

It was in AOS. Superman was possessed by Eclipso. The lighting was coming from Shazam, not Zeus.

Surfer could turn Morg into stone. Morg could change himself back. Not sure about Thor. Strange probably has some form of protection against it, knowing him. Gladiator could be turned to stone. Anyone who can't control their atoms, or somehow magically protect themselves is fair game. Matter transmutation is cheap. Even Sersi rarely uses it againt foes.

I'm not sure whether he can change them back to normal or not. The fact remains that he can change them into stone.

It's not a new power. You may not have been familiar with it. Surfer is an omega level telepath.

Jimmy Olsen isn't Captain Marvel. 😉 My info came from jrodslam. He said that any lightning would turn CM into Billy, and that's why he dodges it. Go figure. At any rate, Surfer synthesized the Odinforce. Why not Zeus's magic?

The fact that it's magic would suggest that it has homing capabilities? 🤨 Thor has magical lightning too. I've never seen it seek out a target.

I never said that Superman's fans add powers. But, in debates involving Supes, facts often go ignored. I didn't add any powers to Surfer. Consult Stan Lee.

surfer crushes cm easy surfer is just all around better

magic is no match 4 the power cosmic

This thread should be merged with the other one.

Surfer:
Matter-manipulation, the power reserves of stars, traveling at lightspeed, ability to endow himself with Class 100 strength, a resistanance to telepathy, ability to stand at the center of a super-nova without breaking a sweat, energy manipulation powers allowing him to absorb almost any type of energy...

Marvel:
Wisdom of Solomon, Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, Power of Zeus, Courage of Achilles, and Speed Mercury.

Surfer takes this.

<<The fact that it's magic would suggest that it has homing capabilities?>>

show it missing his target. and perhaps you didn't add any, but you're calling on ones he uses next to never. omega telepath, eh. hmm, seems he should use that ability a lot more often as it would probably come in handy and an infinity of situations.

a summary fo events from Adventures in the DC Universe, Issue 15:

Cap finds that the lightning bolt which transforms him acting erratically. As Billy Batson, he retains the power of Captain Marvel and as Captain Marvel, he is no more powerful than an ordinary mortal. The wizard SHAZAM deduces that the gods who are the source of Captain Marvel's power may be at the root of the problem. SHAZAM learns that Zeus has decided to test Billy by altering his magical lightning. Meanwhile, Billy, with the help of a young boy, raid a criminal's lair. Billy bluffs the criminals by entering their lair as Captain Marvel, despite the fact that because of Zeus's interference, he is powerless. This act of bravado wins the respect of Zeus, who agrees to restore Captain Marvel's powers to their original form.

the lightning is a manifestation of the power of zeus, like his strength is a manifestation of the strength of hercules, etc . . . and yah, i'd think zeus's lightning would likely hit its intended target.

btw, i'd love to see one instance of ss being an omega level telepath (aside from the mind control example you mentioned earlier) and i'd like to know the situation behind his controlling every mind on earth. what issue? unless it was very recent, odds are i have it and may have just forgotten the incident somehow.

Originally posted by leonidas
a summary fo events from Adventures in the DC Universe, Issue 15:

Cap finds that the lightning bolt which transforms him acting erratically. As Billy Batson, he retains the power of Captain Marvel and as Captain Marvel, he is no more powerful than an ordinary mortal. The wizard SHAZAM deduces that the gods who are the source of Captain Marvel's power may be at the root of the problem. SHAZAM learns that Zeus has decided to test Billy by altering his magical lightning. Meanwhile, Billy, with the help of a young boy, raid a criminal's lair. Billy bluffs the criminals by entering their lair as Captain Marvel, despite the fact that because of Zeus's interference, he is powerless. This act of bravado wins the respect of Zeus, who agrees to restore Captain Marvel's powers to their original form.

the lightning is a manifestation of the power of zeus, like his strength is a manifestation of the strength of hercules, etc . . . and yah, i'd think zeus's lightning would likely hit its intended target.

btw, i'd love to see one instance of ss being an omega level telepath (aside from the mind control example you mentioned earlier) and i'd like to know the situation behind his controlling every mind on earth. what issue? unless it was very recent, odds are i have it and may have just forgotten the incident somehow.

And how is Cm going resist being turned into stones, gas, and energy

Or worst part of SS board.

That&#8217;s just a sample of SS powers.

CM is not as durable as SS and his attacks are no where near as powerful as angry Silver Surfer.

Speed &#8211; Silver Surfer

i think ss would win the majority. i already said that. but i think it's fair to say cm could get maybe 3/10.

and kg, do you agree with cube that ss is an omega level telepath? (which would put him on par with what, godlike cable, rachel summers when she was phoenix)

and what's YOUR thought on why he doesn't just turn everyone to stone then back again? if he can do these things and doesn't, there must be a reason beyond 'it would make fights boring'.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think ss would win the majority. i already said that. but i think it's fair to say cm could get maybe 3/10.

and kg, do you agree with cube that ss is an omega level telepath? (which would put him on par with what, godlike cable, rachel summers when she was phoenix)

and what's YOUR thought on why he doesn't just turn everyone to stone then back again? if he can do these things and doesn't, there must be a reason beyond 'it would make fights boring'.

He did put down God like Cable like a child.

Everyone such as whom?
1) He doesn't need to (if they are much stronger than him chances are they are matter manipulators as well)
2.) SS is never trying to attack.

But if he needs to do it he will

Spider Man, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, and Caves etc his matter manipulations power is also at a high level.

He rather not mess with organic life that much

His battle with Cable ( they were destroying building , and fixing them ) going a high speed ( he is that good).