Originally posted by slade10
You don't even have a picture of cap after the gleam in thanos' eye. How do you know he changed postures after thanos detected surfer?Whether he changed postures before/after SS's dash is debatable. You have no evidence of that. At best, you have evidence that he changed expressions.
In any event, as I said, cap is irrelevant. The important picture is surfer a foot away from thanos, with thanos turning his head and his hand lowered.
You have this odd after-image theory -- that actually thanos is not reacting to surfer (who is a galaxy away) but to surfer's "after-image." First, that makes no sense scientifically.
Of course comics don't have to be scientifically valid, however, so, second, that makes no sense contextually. If they meant to show surfer a galaxy away, they simply would have shown the second image, of surfer a galaxy away when cap is landing his punch. They certainly would not have shown surfer still lunging, unless they decided it woudl be funny for him to have an arm-localized seizure, for no apparent reason.
The only other explanation you have is that thanos detected surfer and warlock before surfer even started moving, or at least at a distance that would give him a second or so to react. This is just silly. Thanos does not have eternity-level cosmic awareness. And warlock/surfer's detection of thanos is easily explained; both are first class telepaths and warlock moreover has empathetic soul abilities. Both of them can see through cap's eyes.
What are you talking about? We DO have a picture of Cap after the gleam in Thanos' eye. It was the next page. Do we know how much time passed? Well, enough for one person to go from standing with his arms to his side to taking a combat position, and enough for another to go from being mid punch to stopping the punch and looking at something behind you.
We also know that he didn't change positions, only expressions, because the shoulder position didn't change. It showed the exact same body position, but a change in expressions. The actual body shift didn't happen until the frame between the gleam in Thanos eye and the next time we saw Cap - which is, as you said, an unknown amount of time.
And because it's unknown, we can't qualify it as a speed feat on the part of Thanos.
Cap is very much relevant because it provides context as to exactly how fast Thanos was reacting. If Cap was in the same position he was in when Thanos' punch started, then we know that Thanos is capable of MANY movements in the time it takes Cap to still even process information that he's about to be attacked. But because Cap's position changed as dramatically as Thanos', and we KNOW Cap doesn't have FTL reflexes, then it cast doubt on the actual time elapsed. We cannot conclude that Thanos reacted at FTL speeds when Cap's position changes matched Thanos' motion for motion.
That's ultimately what it comes down to.
It wouldn't have made sense contextually to skip to Surfer sailing a galaxy away while Cap punched Thanos - it ruins the drama and the caption stating the Surfer missed. That's why it was necessary. That scene in question is one of unknown elapsed time or relative positioning because it would have been impossible for everything we've seen there to happen at the exact same instant.
The reason? Cap's position shift. We don't know Surfer's max speed, we're debating Thanos' max speed, but we DO know Cap's max speed
And taken in context, it undoes everything you're saying.
Originally posted by who?-kid
I wouldn't call it a failed speedblitz. Surfer was just too far away.It doesn't matter how fast you are, when you are too far away, well, you are too far away lol. Not only that, but Surfer missed also.
Two bad points for Surfer. But it doesn't make Thanos faster.
What you said makes no sense whatsoever. Speed is a function of distance over time. If he is far away from a particular point, he would have to attain a certain speed to reach that point in an interval of time.
Originally posted by demigawd
What are you talking about? We DO have a picture of Cap after the gleam in Thanos' eye. It was the next page. Do we know how much time passed? Well, enough for one person to go from standing with his arms to his side to taking a combat position, and enough for another to go from being mid punch to stopping the punch and looking at something behind you.
This is complete nonsense. We have gleam, then the next frame is cap in fighting position and thanos dodging surfer. You have no idea if cap changed positions after the gleam. Or if cap was in that position already by the time of the gleam.
If surfer is moving at FTL speed, I would suggest the latter, unless thanos can detect surfer's exact location from trillions of miles away. Whichi is better than eternity.
If we had, to the contrary, gleam, cap in position A, then cap in position B, then you have an argument.
But we don't have that. We have gleam, then thanos doding. Thus you have no argument.
And what is this nonsense about "drama"? how would it be less dramatic to see surfer a galaxy away? If anything, it would be more dramatic -- it would emphasize how fast surfer was going relative to the fight. Instead, the writers/artists show surfer a couple feet away with his arms lunging, and thanos with his hand down and head turned. They do not say this is an "after-image", or otherwise give any indication that it is "after-image." And in fact in the next frame they DO show surfer a galaxy away (as a mere dot) when cap's punch finishes. Why not show drama there as well, by maintaing the "after-image" (whatever that means)? Why does the "after-image" suddenly disappear?
The fact is, unless thanos has eternity+ cosmic awareness, this is an amazing speed feat. And if he has eternity+ cosmic awareness, that's better than a speed feat.
Originally posted by TheKahn
If a speedblitz would work on Thanos, why hasn't the Silver Surfer used it to beat him before?
We've been over this in this thread and the superman one. Apparently, people think every fight between surfer and thanos is simply an indication of SS's mind-boggling stupidity. In their eyes, SS has an IQ of 10.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
What you said makes no sense whatsoever. Speed is a function of distance over time. If he is far away from a particular point, he would have to attain a certain speed to reach that point in an interval of time.
And I really really doubt Surfer was going all out. He had - while moving towards Thanos - to focus and prepare himself in order to grab that gauntlet. That's hard to do when you are travelling (several times) at the speed of light. Even for Surfer.
Ok, let me try this one more time for who-kid.
Say someone shoots a laser at me from 10 feet. I'm obviously going to be unable to dodge the laser. (I might be able to move BEFORE he shoots and cause the laser to miss, but let's assume I can't react until AFTER the laser fires)
Move it back to 100 feet. Still, no luck. Light moves at 300,000 km a second. And my brain will not be able to even process the laser before it tears through me.
Move it back a mile. Same problem (we're assuming the laser is focused enough to still hit me). INstead of a tiny fraction of a nanosecond, it might take a nanosecond. Still far too ltitle time for me to react.
Now let's say we move it back 1,000,000 miles. Now i actually have enough time to react. A few seconds in fact. The problem is, I can't see the laser until its a mile away. And at that point, I'll once again have less than a nanosecond before it hits me.
IF thanos does not have godlike reflexes, he faces the same problem. Except its AMPLIFIED BY 30 MILLION, because surfer is moving far faster than the laser.
It doesn't matter how far away the laser is because by the time I detect it, it might as well be a micrometer away. The difference between 1 and 3 nanoseconds is completley insgificant unless you have nanosecond-caliber reflexes/agility.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If Thanos can see over 5,000 lightyears away, my guess would be that his reflexes are pretty damn quick.
No...it just means he can see real good.
Originally posted by slade10
This is complete nonsense. We have gleam, then the next frame is cap in fighting position and thanos dodging surfer. You have no idea if cap changed positions after the gleam. Or if cap was in that position already by the time of the gleam.If surfer is moving at FTL speed, I would suggest the latter, unless thanos can detect surfer's exact location from trillions of miles away. Whichi is better than eternity.
If we had, to the contrary, gleam, cap in position A, then cap in position B, then you have an argument.
But we don't have that. We have gleam, then thanos doding. Thus you have no argument.
And what is this nonsense about "drama"? how would it be less dramatic to see surfer a galaxy away? If anything, it would be more dramatic -- it would emphasize how fast surfer was going relative to the fight. Instead, the writers/artists show surfer a couple feet away with his arms lunging, and thanos with his hand down and head turned. They do not say this is an "after-image", or otherwise give any indication that it is "after-image." And in fact in the next frame they DO show surfer a galaxy away (as a mere dot) when cap's punch finishes. Why not show drama there as well, by maintaing the "after-image" (whatever that means)? Why does the "after-image" suddenly disappear?
The fact is, unless thanos has eternity+ cosmic awareness, this is an amazing speed feat. And if he has eternity+ cosmic awareness, that's better than a speed feat.
What are you talking about? Of COURSE we know whether Cap has changed positions. Look at the images! It's obvious to anyone that Cap was in the same position the whole time until after the gleam. Why? Because Thanos' arm was almost fully extended in the first frame. In the second frame, where you can see Cap's head, you can tell he's in the same position he was in in the page before - he wasn't taking a fighting position. So are you trying to say that Cap is now so fast that he can take up a fighting position from the moment Thanos' arm is fully extended to the time it would have actually reached Cap? That's a distance of inches. If that's your conclusion, then not only does Thanos not have FTL reflexes, but he's the slowest person in that group. By far.
So clearly it's impossible that Cap would have been in that position prior to the gleam. Cap isn't that fast and/or Thanos' punch isn't that slow.
What does that mean? That means that the final image is not within a single frame of time, rather it's used to demonstrate multiple things occuring at within an undefined time period. As such, it cannot be reliably used as any kind of FTL evidence on the part of Thanos. Any attempt to do so ignores the blatant reality that Captain America changed positions as dramatically as Thanos did.
Originally posted by slade10
Ok, let me try this one more time for who-kid.Say someone shoots a laser at me from 10 feet. I'm obviously going to be unable to dodge the laser. (I might be able to move BEFORE he shoots and cause the laser to miss, but let's assume I can't react until AFTER the laser fires)
Move it back to 100 feet. Still, no luck. Light moves at 300,000 km a second. And my brain will not be able to even process the laser before it tears through me.
Move it back a mile. Same problem (we're assuming the laser is focused enough to still hit me). INstead of a tiny fraction of a nanosecond, it might take a nanosecond. Still far too ltitle time for me to react.
Now let's say we move it back 1,000,000 miles. Now i actually have enough time to react. A few seconds in fact. The problem is, I can't see the laser until its a mile away. And at that point, I'll once again have less than a nanosecond before it hits me.
IF thanos does not have godlike reflexes, he faces the same problem. Except its AMPLIFIED BY 30 MILLION, because surfer is moving far faster than the laser.
It doesn't matter how far away the laser is because by the time I detect it, it might as well be a micrometer away. The difference between 1 and 3 nanoseconds is completley insgificant unless you have nanosecond-caliber reflexes/agility.
Untrue. Let's use your example. We take the laser pointer and move it back 1,000,000 miles, giving you time to react. We know that Thanos was able to see Surfer from far away...if you have a few seconds to avoid something coming in a straight line for you, it only takes a slight deviation to make the pointer miss you. If you have 1.5 seconds advance warning, that's still plenty of time to have that slight deviation. Thanos has cosmic awareness....he's telepathic, too. It would make sense that he could sense Surfer coming from a half lightyear away and slightly adjust to throw Surfer off in the remaining time. A half second is plenty of time.
And that's just assuming the image does in fact show Thanos "dodging", and in my opinion, it does not. It simply shows Surfer missing and Thanos looking at him.
Using either interpretation, it merits nothing for Thanos.
So in sum, your argument amounts to:
1. Thanos has cosmic awareness or telepathy better than the most powerful cosmic beings in the universe, and can detect the precise location of the surfer from trillions of miles away without the assistance of any tech, or any other sort of remote connection to the observed location.
AND
2. All incidents where thanos was unable to locate someone with a few miles (much less a few trillion miles), or surprised by someone within HUMAN EYESIGHT RANGE, were apparently merely examples of thanos' INCREDIBLE STUPIDITY, despite the fact that marvel describes him as the most devious/brilliant villain in the marvel universe.
AND
3. Despite cosmic power greater than eternity, when it comes to awareness, thanos has the reactions of a turtle.
AND
4. Marvel is wrong in its authoritative bible, when it states that thanos has godlike reflexes, and when it states that he has maximum, warp-like speed. Because you say so, and you are a better authority than marvel.
AND
5. Every other character thanos fights has an IQ of 10, much like thanos himself, and thus fails to use speed. (since every other character thanos fights has superspeed) The entire multiverse is littered with mentally disabled superheros!
Seems like a pretty powerful set of arguments to me. 🙄
Originally posted by demigawd
The whole thing is a mischaracterization. It's not what I argued. And I'm going to re-post what I've posted over pages just because you're whining.
It's EXACTLY what you argued. Seeing surfer from half a light year is seeing trillions of miles.
The only other argument you had is this "after-image" claim -- that surfer is actually trillions of miles away and inflicted with a sudden and unexplained arm-localized seizure (or is doing an extremely odd dance) -- which it appears you have subsequently abandoned. For good reason -- as implausible as the first argument is, the after-image theory is an even bigger stretch.