Originally posted by demigawd
Exactly, so as proof...it's impossible to conclude that Thanos reacted to Surfer's attempt to grab the gauntlet.Here's the scan before that...Cap in a completely different posture. By the time the blitz ended, both Cap and Thanos were in completely different positions. Thanos turned his head and saw Surfer as he was passing. Cap was focused on attempting to punch Thanos. In both cases they began and ended with different postures, discrediting the notion that Thanos in fact foiled the attempt.
All it shows is that Thanos was able to see FTL movement - which I don't doubt. But being able to see it being able to fight it are entirely different things. Entirely.
Either way, for one of the only showings of Thanos "reacting" to FTL actions, it's dubious indeed. Too much so.
No, but you'll note that from the time Surfer started his run to the time he ended it, Cap was able to go from a neutral position to a combat position preparing for a punch. That's more than enough time for several thoughts. I'd expect Thanos to sense the approach if he has several thoughts worth of time. But he still didn't react to it until after it was over. That's why he looked back at Surfer instead of forward at him.
To me, that's slow.
Your post makes no sense. Are you trying to prove that cap can move? That's all the previous scan shows. You see him in one posture before surfer dashes, and a different one when surfer dashes. You have no idea how much time passes between frames.
The fact of the matter is that thanos has his hand raised and his eyes toward cap until surfer dashes. Unless you are saying thanos suddenly decided to dance a little jig mid-slap, and THEN surfer dashed, the only explanation is FTL reflexes and movement. Even the jig theory requires some explanation for the gleam in thanos' eye prior to surfer passing by. Is that supposed to be a sign of cosmic dance fever? Or a sign that he is reacting to surfer? (It's certainly not a light reflection, for obvious reasons.)
There is a simple answer here, and a convoluted one. Heard of ockham's razor?
Originally posted by slade10
Your post makes no sense. Are you trying to prove that cap can move? That's all the previous scan shows. You see him in one posture before surfer dashes, and a different one when surfer dashes. You have no idea how much time passes between frames.The fact of the matter is that thanos has his hand raised and his eyes toward cap until surfer dashes. Unless you are saying thanos suddenly decided to dance a little jig mid-slap, and THEN surfer dashed, the only explanation is FTL reflexes and movement. Even the jig theory requires some explanation for the gleam in thanos' eye prior to surfer passing by. Is that supposed to be a sign of cosmic dance fever? Or a sign that he is reacting to surfer? (It's certainly not a light reflection, for obvious reasons.)
There is a simple answer here, and a convoluted one. Heard of ockham's razor?
Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.
It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.
And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.
Originally posted by demigawd
Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.
And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.
1. Where are the multiple movements? All we see is thanos jerking away and cap completely oblivious. Are you still on this cap changing postures stuff? It's a different frame for heaven's sake.
2. How do you know he saw surfer from millions of miles away? And if he can detect creatures in the universe across galaxies, that's even better than FTL reaction. That's cosmic-level universal awareness. Then the puzzle would be why he didn't detect warlock and surfer before they even moved. Or are you saying he has cosmic awareness, BUT only to the range of "millions of miles"?
3. Let's suppose thanos doesn't have universal cosmic awareness, which seems plausible since he is sometimes surprised by people even within normal human eyesight range. Then the inevitable conclusion is FTL reflexes. He's not reacting from the point where surfer starts; he's reacting from the point that he detects him.
Assuming thanos does not have universal cosmic awareness, that is probably a few miles. Even if you're right, and he detects him from millions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' demonstrated abilities), that is still a RIDICULOUSLY impressive speed feat. Instead of tens of trillions of punches a second, he can only throw millions.
You seem unable to grasp the idea that distances are condensed when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Trillions and trillions of miles can be covered in less than a second, at that speed. Unless you're saying that thanos detected surfer even before he started moving (which, again, is question-begging), or from trillions and trillions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' known abilities), this is an impressive speed feat. As impressive as any reflex feat I've ever seen, if you want to be strictly scientific about it. I've never seen any other character dodge someone moving at millions of times the speed of light. (mainly because you rarely see any character reach that speed)
Originally posted by demigawd
Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.
And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.
wallbash
get 'im slade! 🤣
Originally posted by slade10
1. Where are the multiple movements? All we see is thanos jerking away and cap completely oblivious. Are you still on this cap changing postures stuff? It's a different frame for heaven's sake.2. How do you know he saw surfer from millions of miles away? And if he can detect creatures in the universe across galaxies, that's even better than FTL reaction. That's cosmic-level universal awareness. Then the puzzle would be why he didn't detect warlock and surfer before they even moved. Or are you saying he has cosmic awareness, BUT only to the range of "millions of miles"?
3. Let's suppose thanos doesn't have universal cosmic awareness, which seems plausible since he is sometimes surprised by people even within normal human eyesight range. Then the inevitable conclusion is FTL reflexes. He's not reacting from the point where surfer starts; he's reacting from the point that he detects him.
Assuming thanos does not have universal cosmic awareness, that is probably a few miles. Even if you're right, and he detects him from millions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' demonstrated abilities), that is still a RIDICULOUSLY impressive speed feat. Instead of tens of trillions of punches a second, he can only throw millions.
You seem unable to grasp the idea that distances are condensed when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Trillions and trillions of miles can be covered in less than a second, at that speed. Unless you're saying that thanos detected surfer even before he started moving (which, again, is question-begging), or from trillions and trillions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' known abilities), this is an impressive speed feat. As impressive as any reflex feat I've ever seen, if you want to be strictly scientific about it. I've never seen any other character dodge someone moving at millions of times the speed of light. (mainly because you rarely see any character reach that speed)
It's in a different frame starting from the moment Surfer started moving. From the time Surfer started his travel to the time he finished it, both Thanos AND Cap changed positions and expressions significantly, and equally. Your "evidence" hinges on the fact that Thanos was looking behind him at Surfer flying off while Cap is not. Why would Cap care? He's got a mission to fulfill. The silver streak is clearly there even after Cap completes his punch. Cap is FOCUSED on Thanos. It's a huge leap in logic and judgment to say that Cap is frozen in frame while Thanos is reacting. There's simply not enough of a case to make that kind of conclusion.
Compare the three pages we've posted frame by frame. Thanos is preparing his punch, Cap is standing there, about to take it. The punch moves closer and closer to Cap's face, which just alters slightly. Then we see a light in Thanos' eye - it's the Surfer coming (advanced warning). It's a good case that Thanos can detect FTL movement, putting him in such elite company as Deathstroke.
Then Surfer flies in, misses, and continues to fly off. By then, both the positions of Thanos AND Cap have changed significantly. Thanos looks BEHIND him with a clearly panicked look on his face (but his fist is in the same general position!!!), while Cap is about to punch him. The silver streak in space is still there even as Cap punches Thanos.
As far as movements go, Thanos was shown to be no faster than Cap, as the number and complexity of movements in the space of time it took Surfer to reach them are nearly identical. The only difference is that Thanos was able to see Surfer. It had nothing to do with reaction, and it certainly isn't viable evidence that he can deal with a rapid fire series of attacks at FTL speeds.
At best, it's OK evidence of Thanos being able to perceive FTL motion (but not react to it and certainly not fight at that speed). At worst, it's evidence that even with a one light year and 2-3 second headstart, Thanos is leagues slower than Surfer. And on average, it signifies nothing.
I know that you're committed to making this one bit of evidence work, and I commend you for that. If there were a mountain of evidence in support of Thanos being able to fight and react to FTL speeds, I might give this the benefit of the doubt. But as the ONLY comic evidence EVER presented in support of Thanos' "godlike" reflexes, it's incredibly poor.
Originally posted by demigawd
It's in a different frame starting from the moment Surfer started moving. From the time Surfer started his travel to the time he finished it, both Thanos AND Cap changed positions and expressions significantly, and equally. Your "evidence" hinges on the fact that Thanos was looking behind him at Surfer flying off while Cap is not. Why would Cap care? He's got a mission to fulfill. The silver streak is clearly there even after Cap completes his punch. Cap is FOCUSED on Thanos. It's a huge leap in logic and judgment to say that Cap is frozen in frame while Thanos is reacting. There's simply not enough of a case to make that kind of conclusion.Compare the three pages we've posted frame by frame. Thanos is preparing his punch, Cap is standing there, about to take it. The punch moves closer and closer to Cap's face, which just alters slightly. Then we see a light in Thanos' eye - it's the Surfer coming (advanced warning). It's a good case that Thanos can detect FTL movement, putting him in such elite company as Deathstroke.
Then Surfer flies in, misses, and continues to fly off. By then, both the positions of Thanos AND Cap have changed significantly. Thanos looks BEHIND him with a clearly panicked look on his face (but his fist is in the same general position!!!), while Cap is about to punch him. The silver streak in space is still there even as Cap punches Thanos.
As far as movements go, Thanos was shown to be no faster than Cap, as the number and complexity of movements in the space of time it took Surfer to reach them are nearly identical. The only difference is that Thanos was able to see Surfer. It had nothing to do with reaction, and it certainly isn't viable evidence that he can deal with a rapid fire series of attacks at FTL speeds.
At best, it's OK evidence of Thanos being able to perceive FTL motion (but not react to it and certainly not fight at that speed). At worst, it's evidence that even with a one light year and 2-3 second headstart, Thanos is leagues slower than Surfer. And on average, it signifies nothing.
I know that you're committed to making this one bit of evidence work, and I commend you for that. If there were a mountain of evidence in support of Thanos being able to fight and react to FTL speeds, I might give this the benefit of the doubt. But as the ONLY comic evidence EVER presented in support of Thanos' "godlike" reflexes, it's incredibly poor.
You're still not making any sense.
If cap changes postures subsequent to surfer being detected (by him or thanos), then yes he has FTL speed. You have no evidence to support this proposition, and neither do I. All we see is a couple frames of cap's head, THEN IN A LATER FRAME a gleam in thanos' eye. And finally cap in a different posture than he was TWO PAGES AGO, BEFORE surefer had even started moving, AND BEFORE the gleam (can't be a light, since surfer is moving FTL) in thanos' eye.
This proves that cap has the capability to move and change postures, but nothing more. I don't think cap's ability to move is that controversial.
In any case, this stuff is irrelevant.
Thanos' hand is lowered and head turned when surfer is at most a few feet away. Unless you are saying
1. thanos was in this position before he detected surfer (the "dance a jig in the middle of a slap" theory), or
2. thanos can detect surfer from hundreds of trillions of miles away (the "universal cosmic awareness theory", which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash)
then he has godlike reflexes. Which of 1 or 2 are you saying? IT seems like you're saying some version of 1, but making an exception for thanos' head? (which apparently had a "panicked look".....? how can you tell with a mug like that, lol) So thanos' neck moves at FTL but his hand does not? That makes no sense.
When someone is moving at 30 million times the speed of light, there is no such thing as a "head start." By the time you actually detect him (which should not be possible through normal vision, obviously), he will arrive in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds. Actually less than that, but you get the point. If you think an 0.0000(etc)1 head start means thanos is a slow showing, when he is still able to react DESPITE BEING SURPRISED, then thanos must be the fastest being in comics. Because I've never seen anyone react to a blitz like that. Show me a scan of anyone from any comic doing so.
I'm not committed to any evidence or position. I'm committed to logic and common sense.
"which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash"
Playing devil's advocate he may have actually known they were there. Warlock asks Surfer what he sees from his position, and he says, "Thanos, hes looking this way", which always implied to me he was watching them. However he has the gauntlet at full power at that point so of course he would be able to see them, I doubt he retained that ability when he powered down to just the power gem.
Originally posted by Wally West
"which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash"Playing devil's advocate he may have actually known they were there. Warlock asks Surfer what he sees from his position, and he says, "Thanos, hes looking this way", which always implied to me he was watching them. However he has the gauntlet at full power at that point so of course he would be able to see them, I doubt he retained that ability when he powered down to just the power gem.
Fair enough, but if he can detect creatures trillions of miles away, that's even better than FTL reactions. That's cosmic entity-level awareness.
Originally posted by slade10
If cap changes postures subsequent to surfer being detected (by him or thanos), then yes he has FTL speed. You have no evidence to support this proposition, and neither do I.
You mean aside from the comic? No, nothing else.
What I'm saying is Cap changes positions at the same time Thanos does. If you're saying that that comic is evidence of Thanos' FTL reflexes because Thanos is shown reacting to Surfer, then you would HAVE to say the same about Cap because Cap has just as many movements in the same amount of time. The only difference is that Thanos is looking in Surfer's direction...and Cap is looking at Thanos.
All we see is a couple frames of cap's head, THEN IN A LATER FRAME a gleam in thanos' eye. And finally cap in a different posture than he was TWO PAGES AGO, BEFORE surefer had even started moving, AND BEFORE the gleam (can't be a light, since surfer is moving FTL) in thanos' eye.
Wrong. Cap is in a different posture than he was in AFTER Surfer started moving. Surfer was already in motion and Cap's expressions had changed and Thanos' fist was headed steadily towards Cap's head.
That whole exchange was meant to show that Surfer is fast enough to get there in the time it takes for Thanos to punch. Thanos' punch almost connected in that space of time. That's the space of a couple of seconds...not a milisecond. It was enough time for the punch to cover some ground and Cap's facial expressions to change.
And of course the gleam in his eye was the Surfer approaching. the FTL = invisible connection holds on weight here becacuse the Sufer is very visible in every other frame.
In fact, that lends further credit to the idea that what Thanos actually saw and reacted to was Surfer's after-image, since the very fact it was visible at all meant it was just the light catching up.
This proves that cap has the capability to move and change postures, but nothing more. I don't think cap's ability to move is that controversial.In any case, this stuff is irrelevant.
It's very relevant because Thanos is NOT moving at FTL speeds if his postures were matched move for move by Cap's.
Thanos' hand is lowered and head turned when surfer is at most a few feet away. Unless you are saying1. thanos was in this position before he detected surfer (the "dance a jig in the middle of a slap" theory), or
2. thanos can detect surfer from hundreds of trillions of miles away (the "universal cosmic awareness theory", which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash)
3. The artist wanted to show that Surfer missed while showing that Thanos was upset at what almost happened.
Cap's movements belie your entire logic (such as it is), because at the beginning of the punch, Cap was standing with his arms to his side. At the end of the punch, Cap had his own combat position, all in the space of Surfer's few feet. The only thing that could mean is either that Cap had FTL movements OR artist interpretation of the instructions, "Surfer misses, Thanos notices what almost happened". If it were meant to show that Thanos somehow shifted himself into FTL mode, Cap would have been in the exact position he was in when Thanos' punch started.
then he has godlike reflexes. Which of 1 or 2 are you saying? IT seems like you're saying some version of 1, but making an exception for thanos' head? (which apparently had a "panicked look".....? how can you tell with a mug like that, lol) So thanos' neck moves at FTL but his hand does not? That makes no sense.
His neck doesn't move at FTL. He looks in the direction of the SS's passing. It's relative perspective of Surfer's position relative to the action required to take place. You can't accurately portray the drama taking place if you showed Surfer actually a lightyear away by the time Thanos notices. A comic book page isn't that big, lol.
When someone is moving at 30 million times the speed of light, there is no such thing as a "head start." By the time you actually detect him (which should not be possible through normal vision, obviously), he will arrive in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds. Actually less than that, but you get the point. If you think an 0.0000(etc)1 head start means thanos is a slow showing, when he is still able to react DESPITE BEING SURPRISED, then thanos must be the fastest being in comics. Because I've never seen anyone react to a blitz like that. Show me a scan of anyone from any comic doing so.
It's clearly not .0000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds because it takes far longer than that for Thanos' punch to reach most of its destination and Cap's expression to change twice. In fact, in reality it's most likely more than one second.
I'm not committed to any evidence or position. I'm committed to logic and common sense.
You wouldn't know it from reading your positions.
Originally posted by slade10
Fair enough, but if he can detect creatures trillions of miles away, that's even better than FTL reactions. That's cosmic entity-level awareness.
They were out of his range from their starting position, but he would become aware of it once they entered his range of perception. By the time Surfer entered that range, he would STILL be half a second away (or more) - more than enough time for a thought. And not enough time to consider that any kind of FTL reaction, much less FTL motion.
Originally posted by demigawd
What I'm saying is Cap changes positions at the same time Thanos does.
No he doesn't. You see cap in one posture before surfer dashes, then you see some headshots, then you see a gleam in thanos' eye, then you see cap in a different posture. This shows that cap changed posture from before surfer dashed, i.e. that he can move.
What you'd need is for cap to be in a different posture from the point when thanos detects surfer to the point that surfer arrives. There's no evidence of this.
Originally posted by demigawd
That whole exchange was meant to show that Surfer is fast enough to get there in the time it takes for Thanos to punch. Thanos' punch almost connected in that space of time. That's the space of a couple of seconds...not a milisecond. It was enough time for the punch to cover some ground and Cap's facial expressions to change.
1. Unless you have some sort of physical disability, it does not take a couple seconds to throw a punch, even if you're pulling punches. It takes a few seconds to run 40 yards for a peak-condition human. It takes at most a fraction of a second to throw a punch. Try throwing a couple punches in the air and time yourself.
2. Cap's facial expressions change, but we have no idea how much time is passing there, or how to interpret those changes relative to surfer's dash.
Originally posted by demigawd
And of course the gleam in his eye was the Surfer approaching. the FTL = invisible connection holds on weight here becacuse the Sufer is very visible in every other frame.In fact, that lends further credit to the idea that what Thanos actually saw and reacted to was Surfer's after-image, since the very fact it was visible at all meant it was just the light catching up.
This makes no sense. Of course you are invisible to the normal light-sensitive eye if you are moving at FTL speed. Light needs to reflect off of something for it to be "visible."
And what in heaven's name is an "after image"? This isn't a sonic boom. Light needs to hit you for there to be any sort of image. When you're moving at 30 million times the speed of light, you are warping space-time. Light cannot catch you -- thus the term FASTER than light.
In any event, there are clearly lines indicating surfer's progression, and they stop a few feet away from thanos. It's CAP's punch that connects after surfer is a galaxy away.
Originally posted by demigawd
Cap's movements belie your entire logic (such as it is), because at the beginning of the punch, Cap was standing with his arms to his side. At the end of the punch, Cap had his own combat position, all in the space of Surfer's few feet. The only thing that could mean is either that Cap had FTL movements OR artist interpretation of the instructions, "Surfer misses, Thanos notices what almost happened".
Where are you getting this? Show me where cap's position has changed in the space of a few feet of the surfer's movement. There's no evidence for this. Cap is in the natural position you would expect him to be in when surfer passes by. Thanos, in contrast, is reacting (unless, again, you think he's doing a little dance).
Originally posted by demigawd
His neck doesn't move at FTL. He looks in the direction of the SS's passing. It's relative perspective of Surfer's position relative to the action required to take place. You can't accurately portray the drama taking place if you showed Surfer actually a lightyear away by the time Thanos notices. A comic book page isn't that big, lol.
I'm sure surfer would still be grasping for the gauntlet a lightyear away, huh? The image is supposed to show the moment surfer misses, not surfer galaxies away having some sort of odd, arm-localized seizure.
Originally posted by demigawd
It's clearly not .0000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds because it takes far longer than that for Thanos' punch to reach most of its destination and Cap's expression to change twice. In fact, in reality it's most likely more than one second.
Huh? From what distance are you saying thanos detects surfer? If it's millions of miles, then thanos has FTL reflexes. If it's trillions of miles, then Thanos has universal cosmic awareness better than galactus or eternity (who can sense creatures galaxies away, but cannot determine their precise location).
You're still missing the point. Starting point distnace is irrelevant when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Even for eternity or galactus. A million miles is like a micrometer, less than one in fact. So it's as if thanos reacted to a punch from a micrometer away, despite the fact that he was surprised. That is ridiculous speed.
Originally posted by demigawd
They were out of his range from their starting position, but he would become aware of it once they entered his range of perception. By the time Surfer entered that range, he would STILL be half a second away (or more) - more than enough time for a thought. And not enough time to consider that any kind of FTL reaction, much less FTL motion.
Look this isn't that hard.
Light travels at 300,000 km a second. Surfer traveled a LIGHT YEAR (i.e. the amount of time that light can travel in a YEAR) in at most a second, probably a fraction of a second.
If you're saying that thanos has a second to react, that means he can detect surfer from trillions of miles away. Because that's how far surfer can move in a second.
Thanos has not shown eternity-level cosmic awareness. And even eternity would not be able to detect surfer's precise location from trillions of miles away.
Originally posted by slade10
You're still missing the point. Starting point distnace is irrelevant when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Even for eternity or galactus.
I should have written: "even against entities with the cosmic awareness -- and detection distance ability -- of eternity or galactus."
Originally posted by slade10
No he doesn't. You see cap in one posture before surfer dashes, then you see some headshots, then you see a gleam in thanos' eye, then you see cap in a different posture. This shows that cap changed posture from before surfer dashed, i.e. that he can move.
Are you looking at the same images I am? I'm looking at it right now, and I see Thanos' punch progressing, and Cap's expression changing, and I see Sufer flying. That's all happening at the same time.
Then, I see Surfer's failed attempt, Thanos in a completely different position and Cap in a completely different position all in the same frame. That SHOWS that either everybody there is moving at FTL speeds, or an undisclosed amount of time passed that enabled both Thanos and Cap to have totally different postures by the time Surfer was "a few feet away".
Simply put - Cap can't go from standing at attention to assuming a combat position, looking at Thanos and having his left hand cocked in .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 second.
The only LOGICAL conclusion? More time than that passed. More than enough time for Cap to go from a neutral to an offensive position and more than enough time for Thanos, who saw Surfer coming, to see Surfer going.
What you'd need is for cap to be in a different posture from the point when thanos detects surfer to the point that surfer arrives. There's no evidence of this.
It's right there! It shows it right there! He started standing at attention, and ended in a combat position! You're telling me you can't see that? Seriously?
1. Unless you have some sort of physical disability, it does not take a couple seconds to throw a punch, even if you're pulling punches. It takes a few seconds to run 40 yards for a peak-condition human. It takes at most a fraction of a second to throw a punch. Try throwing a couple punches in the air and time yourself.
[quote]From the time it takes to finish cocking to the same it takes to connect, it's well over a second. A second is enough time for several thoughts.
[quote]
2. Cap's facial expressions change, but we have no idea how much time is passing there, or how to interpret those changes relative to surfer's dash.
If Surfer's dash is as fast as you say, then we know how much time is passing. Surfer started a little more than a lightyear away. Cap had time to physically change expressions. Thanos' fist progresses steadily towards Cap's face. Therefore more time has passed than you've made it out to be.
This makes no sense. Of course you are invisible to the normal light-sensitive eye if you are moving at FTL speed. Light needs to reflect off of something for it to be "visible."
And yet we see Surfer streaking, even after he misses. It's called artistic license. Either way, it's a moot point.
And what in heaven's name is an "after image"? This isn't a sonic boom. Light needs to hit you for there to be any sort of image. When you're moving at 30 million times the speed of light, you are warping space-time. Light cannot catch you -- thus the term FASTER than light.
An after-image is light following the path you took AFTER you took it. Essentially you're seeing him long after it already happened. That's an after-image. And it's the only explanation (aside from artistic license in order to show three things happening in one panel) for Captain America changing positions instantly.
Where are you getting this? Show me where cap's position has changed in the space of a few feet of the surfer's movement. There's no evidence for this. Cap is in the natural position you would expect him to be in when surfer passes by. Thanos, in contrast, is reacting (unless, again, you think he's doing a little dance).
Cap was NOT in a natural position. He was preparing to strike, which was a totally different position than he was in AFTER Surfer started moving!
I'm sure surfer would still be grasping for the gauntlet a lightyear away, huh? The image is supposed to show the moment surfer misses, not surfer galaxies away having some sort of odd, arm-localized seizure.
After-image.
Huh? From what distance are you saying thanos detects surfer? If it's millions of miles, then thanos has FTL reflexes. If it's trillions of miles, then Thanos has universal cosmic awareness better than galactus or eternity (who can sense creatures galaxies away, but cannot determine their precise location).
Considering that Surfer was far enough away that even at the speed he was going at, Thanos' fist was able to nearly reach its target a few feet away, you don't need FTL reflexes to sense the approach. You just need a thought's worth of observation and the ability to see a FTL object. As fast as Surfer is going, he was still far enough away to allow a Thanos (and Cap) to have at least a couple of thoughts before his actual arrival.
You're still missing the point. Starting point distnace is irrelevant when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Even for eternity or galactus. A million miles is like a micrometer, less than one in fact. So it's as if thanos reacted to a punch from a micrometer away, despite the fact that he was surprised. That is ridiculous speed.
Wrong. If someone moved a millions of time the speed of light towards a target an inch away from me, but they were 10,000 light years away from me...I'm STILL going to get to the target fist. And if I have FTL perceptions from half a light year away, I'm going to know that you're almost here. But if I don't have FTL reactions, then I'm not going to be able to do anything about it. That's Thanos in a nutshell.
Originally posted by slade10
Look this isn't that hard.Light travels at 300,000 km a second. Surfer traveled a LIGHT YEAR (i.e. the amount of time that light can travel in a YEAR) in at most a second, probably a fraction of a second.
If you're saying that thanos has a second to react, that means he can detect surfer from trillions of miles away. Because that's how far surfer can move in a second.
Thanos has not shown eternity-level cosmic awareness. And even eternity would not be able to detect surfer's precise location from trillions of miles away.
Thanos hasn't show FTL reflexes or speed, either, so what's your point?
Thanos needs perception from half a lightyear away. if Surfer and Warlock have good enough vision to see Thanos, why wouldn't Thanos have good enough vision to see them, especially at the halfway point.
So if it took Surfer 1 second to reach Thanos from a point where Thanos couldn't see them, and we KNOW that Thanos can see them from far away, then we KNOW that even from the halfway point, Thanos can detect him with half a second to spare.
And he still couldn't react in time....he reacted after the fact.
You don't even have a picture of cap after the gleam in thanos' eye. How do you know he changed postures after thanos detected surfer?
Whether he changed postures before/after SS's dash is debatable. You have no evidence of that. At best, you have evidence that he changed expressions.
In any event, as I said, cap is irrelevant. The important picture is surfer a foot away from thanos, with thanos turning his head and his hand lowered.
You have this odd after-image theory -- that actually thanos is not reacting to surfer (who is a galaxy away) but to surfer's "after-image." First, that makes no sense scientifically.
Of course comics don't have to be scientifically valid, however, so, second, that makes no sense contextually. If they meant to show surfer a galaxy away, they simply would have shown the second image, of surfer a galaxy away when cap is landing his punch. They certainly would not have shown surfer still lunging, unless they decided it woudl be funny for him to have an arm-localized seizure, for no apparent reason.
The only other explanation you have is that thanos detected surfer and warlock before surfer even started moving, or at least at a distance that would give him a second or so to react. This is just silly. Thanos does not have eternity-level cosmic awareness. And warlock/surfer's detection of thanos is easily explained; both are first class telepaths and warlock moreover has empathetic soul abilities. Both of them can see through cap's eyes.
In any event, I'm getting tired of this discussion. You obviously have a god-given faith that thanos can be beaten by a speedblitz, and that's fine. I'll let others judge whether they want to trust you or Marvel.
I would just point out the absurdity, however, that the best case for those arguing against thanos' reflexes is an example involving a FAILED SPEED BLITZ where the blitzer was moving at millions of times the speed of life. Sheesh.