Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Reading more into this...It seems like Leo is right.
It says in the panel "resultant energies" what type of energy is it? It doesnt say anything about psychic.Until I see further proof, this is nothing more than the equivalent of a cosmic woodstock.
I want to see actual mind control.
If the energy affected their minds... hmmm.
Even if Surfer 'merely' connected with every sentient being on the Earth, does that display low level telepathy? Honestly, folks.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Communication is not mind control. Empathy is. Controlling another's emotions is mind control.So, basically you're telling me that the energy that Surfer released did not result in everyone on the Earth's emotions being changed? You're speaking directly against the narration. You're telling me that introducing everyone in the world to the same image would result in everyone feeling the same emotion? Where do you see anything that alludes to images, loved ones, or anything that you've mentioned? Everyone doesn't have loved ones. Everyone doesn't feel love.
You're coming up with all of these absurd assertions, when the proof is in the pudding. The narration states that the energy, (not 'images'😉 blanketed every man woman and child on the face of the Earth in a rapture. The energy released affected the minds and controlled the emotions on everyone on the planet.
The Surfer can use invasive telepathy as well. He did it to Hulk. His telepathy isn't as passive as you would like to believe. If his mind is powerful enough to connect with every other mind on the planet, he's more than powerful enough to go head to head with Charlie.
Charles wouldn't even be able to affect the Silver Surfer. He is unable to use telepathy on shapeshifters and intangibles. Surfer is both.>>
HA! I'M going against the narration??! I'M coming up with absurd assertions!? show me ANYWHERE in the narrative where it says the word MIND even one time! ss HIMSELF says 'perhaps i can SHOW the people of this world a way to help themselves'. then he opens a doorway into the quantum world and taps QUANTUM ENERGIES (not telepathic/psionic energies) and blankets the people with . . . what? that's what we're debating. i think it was a beautiful image of a peaceful world.
BUT nowhere does it say exactly WHAT he SHOWED them, but whatever it was it made them feel happy. he SHOWED them (ss words) something that made them joyous. NOWHERE does it even say he touched anyone's mind!! he blanketted them with energy and they saw what they saw. again, i believe he offered them a glimpse of a better world, and they thought it was wonderful. he didn't even use EMPATHY - he showed them and let the image speak for itself.
and i used the images of loved ones as an example - i never said he SHOWED them loved ones.
and where/when has he used this 'invasive' telepathy?
Find the word "Quantum" in my scan. Why would Quantum energy have a direct affect on the mind, pray tell?
How would Surfer know what would cause rapture in each individual if he couldn't invade their minds? I highly doubt that everyone on Marvel Earth likes the same thing, leo.
Where does the narration say that Surfer showed them anything? Is that just your assumption?
I'm sure there's someone on the planet who would not be willing to join in this rapture. Yet EVERYONE was FORCED into it.
Have we forgotten that Xavier cannot affect the Surfer's mind?
<<Find the word "Quantum" in my scan. Why would Quantum energy have a direct affect on the mind, pray tell?>>
that's the misdirection IN your scan! the fact that ss is using quantum energies is on the page previous to the one you scanned. it was the source of the resultant energies mentioned in your scan. quantum, not psionic. as for why q-energy would affect minds, ask stan lee. i postulated a guess - the quantum world is defined by uncertainty - i think ss used this uncertainty to show the people what a peaceful earth COULD be like. as i said, he showed them a 'what if'.
<<Where does the narration say that Surfer showed them anything? Is that just your assumption?>>
again, it is on the page PREVIOUS to your misdirecting scan.
<<Yet EVERYONE was FORCED into it.>>
i don't think ss FORCED anyone - everyone has their idea of peace, or an idea of what a perfect world might be. perhaps that's what he showed them. i don't know. as i said, i think it's ridiculous to say EVERYONE, but the narration DID say that. it said every living being - course that implies so every hero and villain as well, molecule man, etc . . . i think the narration was for affect and was never meant to be scrutinized this way.
and perhaps x can't affect him because his mind is alien. it's NOT because ss is a strong telepath and could fight him off or defeat him in a mind battle.
anyway, it was quantum energy he used, not psionic energy. i'll look at the other scan later.
Can you post the previous page, by any chance?
You keep telling me what you think. Provide some actual facts, leo. Prove that he showed them a "what if." Prove that he didn't force them. Show me something other than opinion.
Surfer can connect with every mind on the planet, but he isn't a strong telepath? 🤨
<<Can you post the previous page, by any chance?>>
yeah. but do you really think i'd make this sh## up?
<<Prove that he showed them a "what if." Prove that he didn't force them. Show me something other than opinion.>>
i'm speculating on what he SHOWED them. i don't know what he showed them. neither do you. but it is clear by what he's saying that he SHOWED them something. and in the narration, it says he opened a doorway between what is physical reality and the quantum universe. makes sense he wasn't then showing them something 'real', but rather something that perhaps MIGHT be.
and prove he DID force them. ss's a pacifist - forcing a planet to accede to his . . . whatever he did seems against his character. OFFERING them a glimpse at something more and allowing them the freewill to decide how to feel about it seems to fit better with him. since neither of us KNOW, i'll guess something more in line with his character than force.
<<Surfer can connect with every mind on the planet, but he isn't a strong telepath?>>
and you say i'm telling you what i think. show me anywhere in these scans where it says he connected to or in anyway at all linked minds with everyone.
he bathed them in quantum energy, not psionic.
scan 1 - the whole scene:
Good stuff.
I am still convinced that the Surfer linked with every mind on the Earth. How would he know whether or not he had actually changed the emotions of anyone, had he not been able to somehow communicate with every being on the planet?
Linking with every sentient mind on the Earth is not beyond the scope of his power. I agree that mind controlling the planet would be pretty out-of-character, but that does not suggest that Surfer's mental powers and defenses are any less formidable.
Hope I didn't put you through too much trouble getting those scans. 🙁 I appreciate them.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Good stuff.I am still convinced that the Surfer linked with every mind on the Earth. How would he know whether or not he had actually changed the emotions of anyone, had he not been able to somehow communicate with every being on the planet?
Linking with every sentient mind on the Earth is not beyond the scope of his power. I agree that mind controlling the planet would be pretty out-of-character, but that does not suggest that Surfer's mental powers and defenses are any less formidable.
Hope I didn't put you through too much trouble getting those scans. 🙁 I appreciate them.
Bill and Ted brought world peace with their music. Are they psychic?
<<Hope I didn't put you through too much trouble getting those scans. I appreciate them.>>
no worries. 🙂
<<I am still convinced that the Surfer linked with every mind on the Earth. How would he know whether or not he had actually changed the emotions of anyone, had he not been able to somehow communicate with every being on the planet?>>
it's a good point, one i've not been able to fully explain to myself. could it be he just knew the effect of . . . whatever he did would have on people? after all, he clearly showed them something glorious. i'm not sure. i admit to not fully understanding what he did, or what he showed, but i'm still of the belief it was not mental control in the way you earlier inferred. maybe he DID passively sense things for a brief moment. the scene is not well explained. one thing IS clear - whatever it was he did took a LOT of power, and WAS pretty impressive.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Hope I didn't put you through too much trouble getting those scans. I appreciate them.>>no worries. 🙂
<<I am still convinced that the Surfer linked with every mind on the Earth. How would he know whether or not he had actually changed the emotions of anyone, had he not been able to somehow communicate with every being on the planet?>>
it's a good point, one i've not been able to fully explain to myself. could it be he just knew the effect of . . . whatever he did would have on people? after all, he clearly showed them something glorious. i'm not sure. i admit to not fully understanding what he did, or what he showed, but i'm still of the belief it was not mental control in the way you earlier inferred. maybe he DID passively sense things for a brief moment. the scene is not well explained. one thing IS clear - whatever it was he did took a LOT of power, and WAS pretty impressive.
Agreed.