ROTJ Darth Vader and Darth Maul vs. Mace Windu

Maul would have defeated Obi were it not for his arrogance, yes. But admit it, Obi had Maul on his back, and had him retreating for the beginning of the fight. Maul actually gained no ground. He stood and was forced to back up or counter-attack. Maul got a good kick on Obi, but I'd say the Padawan's saber-strike was better. And Maul didn't get knocked down or pushed back for no reason. This can't be argued. Obi was just that good. And that's merely a fraction of what Mace could have done. A fraction. Windu could have taken Jinn and Kenobi himself, and fairly easily.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Maul would have defeated Obi were it not for his arrogance, yes. But admit it, Obi had Maul on his back, and had him retreating for the beginning of the fight. Maul actually gained no ground. He stood and was forced to back up or counter-attack. Maul got a good kick on Obi, but I'd say the Padawan's saber-strike was better. And Maul didn't get knocked down or pushed back for no reason. This can't be argued. Obi was just that good. And that's merely a fraction of what Mace could have done. A fraction. Windu could have taken Jinn and Kenobi himself, and fairly easily.

Maul isnt one of the big dogs here but hes strong enough to tip the scales.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
1) Where's the evidence that says Dooku was weaker? Apprentice<Master is not always the case... And besides, Dooku was a Makashi master, who practiced a saber fighting designed for saber-to-saber combat. By all accounts, Sidious' style is Ataru or Niman on crack.

2) I know you don't want to admit this because Sidious and Vader are your favorite characters, but Yoda was clearly more than a match for Sidious, and it took Sidious fighting from the higher ground and a rather fortunate move that broke Yoda's lightsaber and sent him falling too far to come back up. But in a more fair enivonment, Yoda would probably win. Now, if Sidious had sabered Yoda, even a wound, I would say your argument warrants consideration... but really, it's just ridiculous. That's like saying I shot an archer from atop a guard tower and we're equal.

3) Obviously you took this out of context... Mace was trying not to murder his former apprentice, and she was drawing on the darkside, twisting Vaapad and taking the advantage. Note that Luke draws on the darkside and beats down Vader in ROTJ. Doing so can give you a temporary boost. But depa>Mace is as stupid an argument as ever been on this board.

4) Who the hell is this and why is this the first time I've heard of him?

5) The prophecy is a plot element. It doesn't apply in the versus thread. Please take yourself over to the episode 1-6 forums if you feel the need to rely on the prophecy. And Skywalker means ****all here, since the prophecy and all this other crap spewed forth by Skywalker fans never holds up to rational scrutinisation.

6) As much as I hate to call on an EU source in an EU subforum, the Episode III book is like the Sidious/Vader fanboy's bible. It discredits Mace, makes Anakina and Sidious look like god, and ever so carefully adds crap to the movies without contradicting them. However, since there wasn't any mention of this bullshit in-movie, it goes one of two ways: either Mace won as we all saw; or you buy the book, and Mace was allowed to win. Either way, Sidious is on a whole nother level compared to mecha-Vader, so the argument is kinda moot in this case.

7) I have two glasses. Both are 805 full. One's full of gasoline, the other water. Which one is gonna hurt you more? Please, let's drop the 80% bullshit. Vader is slow, his Force mastery is weak, and he cannot contend with a Jedi master like Mace windu. You have no evidence to support that he can, and all you're doing is running around in circles...

1.Theres no way dooku is stronger than sidious just give it up, in the ROTS novelization(heheh) dooku says among other things sidious is"beyond power, a horizon on the force, darkness beyond darkness" you dont talk about somone that way if there weaker than you.

2. The sidious-yoda fight was a tie at best for yoda, and if mace actually beat sidious that means mace>yoda correct? But wait mace>yoda is complete bs...

3.When mace said this he was refering to when they battled akks on nar shadaa, she displayed greater swordsmanship than his own and she was using the lightside. Depa may have been using the darkside in their duel together but it doesnt really matter she still won, you dont handicap ragnos because he used the dark side do you?

4.Kar vastor, convenient you knew about him earlier but just suddenly forgot about him.

5.What you say goes against GL and what GL says is the only absolute evidence we have.

6.The ep III novelization is went through word for word by GL, he intended to make sidious look good because guess what? Sidious is that damn clever and powerful.

7. GL said it himself vader is 80% of the emperor that is fact. And stop using lame excuses like vader is"slow and weak" you know thats just being bias and doesnt add anything to the argument.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
1.Theres no way dooku is stronger than sidious just give it up, in the ROTS novelization(heheh) dooku says among other things sidious is"beyond power, a horizon on the force, darkness beyond darkness" you dont talk about somone that way if there weaker than you.

2. The sidious-yoda fight was a tie at best for yoda, and if mace actually beat sidious that means mace>yoda correct? But wait mace>yoda is complete bs...

3.When mace said this he was refering to when they battled akks on nar shadaa, she displayed greater swordsmanship than his own and she was using the lightside. Depa may have been using the darkside in their duel together but it doesnt really matter she still won, you dont handicap ragnos because he used the dark side do you?

4.Kar vastor, convenient you knew about him earlier but just suddenly forgot about him.

5.What you say goes against GL and what GL says is the only absolute evidence we have.

6.The ep III novelization is went through word for word by GL, he intended to make sidious look good because guess what? Sidious is that damn clever and powerful.

7. GL said it himself vader is 80% of the emperor that is fact. And stop using lame excuses like vader is"slow and weak" you know thats just being bias and doesnt add anything to the argument.

I wish you would stop talking about the damn Episode III Book as if it was Gospel.

Thinks happened in the book that didn't happen in the movie and things were changed around.

The Novelization has NO PART WHATSOEVER with Lucas AT ALL.

It isn't Canon. It's impossible to be CANON at all.

Jeez, Vengeance, give it up. You KNOW that Mace could take either Maul or Vader out of the fight temporarily witha good Force Push in the ilk of Kenobi's on Grievous. This would work better on Maul, as Vader's Raw Power would assist his deflection of this attack.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
I wish you would stop talking about the damn Episode III Book as if it was Gospel.

Thinks happened in the book that didn't happen in the movie and things were changed around.

The Novelization has NO PART WHATSOEVER with Lucas AT ALL.

It isn't Canon. It's impossible to be CANON at all.

Do some research buddy, the ROTS novelization is 100% lucas approved he checked it word for word.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Jeez, Vengeance, give it up. You KNOW that Mace could take either Maul or Vader out of the fight temporarily witha good Force Push in the ilk of Kenobi's on Grievous. This would work better on Maul, as Vader's Raw Power would assist his deflection of this attack.

How would you take out a sith lord with just one force push? This is rediculous.

TEMPORARY. Read the post. Did you see ROTS? If you did, you would have seen Obi throw Grievous fifty feet into the air with one push. Obi. Maul's Force attack pushed Obi onto his back, and slid him across the floor. I wonder. If Maul's Push did squat, and Obi's threw a guy a through the air and onto a catwalk, and Mace is stronger than the guy who threw Grievous, wouldn't that mean Mace could chuck Maul around like hell? Yes. Maul's Force would add some resistance, but not nearly enough. Mace would throw him down and incapacitate him for a few moments, and take the time to eradicate Vader by shattering his suit through saber or Force, preferably the former.

The sidious-yoda fight was a tie at best for yoda, and if mace actually beat sidious that means mace>yoda correct? But wait mace>yoda is complete bs...

Holy....

YODA LOST AGAINST SIDIOUS!

How hard is that to understand? Honestly!

And comparing other people because one lost to the same individual in a fight is just stupid.

Anything can happen on the Battlefield.

Say Yoda and Mace were fighting....

Just because Yoda was beat by Sidious and Mace beat Sidious doesn't mean Mace will beat Yoda.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
[B]The sidious-yoda fight was a tie at best for yoda, and if mace actually beat sidious that means mace>yoda correct? But wait mace>yoda is complete bs...

Holy....

YODA LOST AGAINST SIDIOUS!

How hard is that to understand? Honestly!

And comparing other people because one lost to the same individual in a fight is just stupid.

Anything can happen on the Battlefield.

Say Yoda and Mace were fighting....

Just because Yoda was beat by Sidious and Mace beat Sidious doesn't mean Mace will beat Yoda. [/B]

What are you talking about, sure I think sidious won also but Im saying it was a tie to be generous, and If a>b and b>c then a>c that isnt hard to understand.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
TEMPORARY. Read the post. Did you see ROTS? If you did, you would have seen Obi throw Grievous fifty feet into the air with one push. Obi. Maul's Force attack pushed Obi onto his back, and slid him across the floor. I wonder. If Maul's Push did squat, and Obi's threw a guy a through the air and onto a catwalk, and Mace is stronger than the guy who threw Grievous, wouldn't that mean Mace could chuck Maul around like hell? Yes. Maul's Force would add some resistance, but not nearly enough. Mace would throw him down and incapacitate him for a few moments, and take the time to eradicate Vader by shattering his suit through saber or Force, preferably the former.

Obi-wan threw a non-force user...okay your right I should just stop I know when Im beaten.

🙂

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
1.Theres no way dooku is stronger than sidious just give it up, in the ROTS novelization(heheh) dooku says among other things sidious is"beyond power, a horizon on the force, darkness beyond darkness" you dont talk about somone that way if there weaker than you.

2. The sidious-yoda fight was a tie at best for yoda, and if mace actually beat sidious that means mace>yoda correct? But wait mace>yoda is complete bs...

3.When mace said this he was refering to when they battled akks on nar shadaa, she displayed greater swordsmanship than his own and she was using the lightside. Depa may have been using the darkside in their duel together but it doesnt really matter she still won, you dont handicap ragnos because he used the dark side do you?

4.Kar vastor, convenient you knew about him earlier but just suddenly forgot about him.

5.What you say goes against GL and what GL says is the only absolute evidence we have.

6.The ep III novelization is went through word for word by GL, he intended to make sidious look good because guess what? Sidious is that damn clever and powerful.

7. GL said it himself vader is 80% of the emperor that is fact. And stop using lame excuses like vader is"slow and weak" you know thats just being bias and doesnt add anything to the argument.

Off with the kid's gloves, Vengeance... You're becoming a thorn in our sides...

1) The ROTS novelisation is barely Eu-level quasi-canon, since it contradicts the movies in several places, one of which was reminded to me about Ki Fisto's head being taken and put on Sidious' desk. The novelisation is a fanboy's bible and it holds about as much weight with me as wet toiletpaper holds a river.

2) If a dog can kill you with a lucky bite to the neck, but the same dog couldn't kill a fly, is You<dog<fly logically correct? didn't think so. Try a logics class.

3) Again, you're taking things out of context. If Obi-Wan says Anakin is strong and wise and smart, is it neccessarily true? No. And Mace is proud of his padawan, and saw good talent in her that day and reflected as such. Is she better? No. He trained her, not the other way around. Mace has knowledge and experience with a lightsaber Depa can't even fathom. So again, bad logic.

4) I've never even pretended to know who the hell this person is, so don't mistake me.

5) This is a line of bullshit.

6) GL went through it word by word? Prove up. That's what I say. Prove the **** up.

7) GL said Vader is 80% of the Force potential and power of Sidious, not that he is 80% the swordsman. Again, taken out of context and twisted to fit your own biased, fanboyisn needs. Great Vengeance, your logic is on a whole new level of untrue, I swear.

Last thing tonight. . . Rating Time!

Dueling Skill

Mace- 10
Maul- 6
Vader- 6

Force Mastery

Mace- 8
Maul- 4
Vader- 7

Raw Power

Mace- 9
Maul- 5
Vader- 8

Tactics

Mace- 10
Maul- 6
Vader- 6

Against Single Opponent

Mace- 10
Maul- 4
Vader- 5

Against Multiple Opponents

Mace- 10

Special Ability/Characteristics

Mace- Shatterpoint
Maul- Arrogance (BAD)
Vader- Strength

Mace- 57
Maul- 23
Vader- 32

I know I made Maul and Vader look crappy but; AH well. Mace wins on account of having 2 more points; he's the winner.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Off with the kid's gloves, Vengeance... You're becoming a thorn in our sides...

1) The ROTS novelisation is barely Eu-level quasi-canon, since it contradicts the movies in several places, one of which was reminded to me about Ki Fisto's head being taken and put on Sidious' desk. The novelisation is a fanboy's bible and it holds about as much weight with me as wet toiletpaper holds a river.

2) If a dog can kill you with a lucky bite to the neck, but the same dog couldn't kill a fly, is You<dog<fly logically correct? didn't think so. Try a logics class.

3) Again, you're taking things out of context. If Obi-Wan says Anakin is strong and wise and smart, is it neccessarily true? No. And Mace is proud of his padawan, and saw good talent in her that day and reflected as such. Is she better? No. He trained her, not the other way around. Mace has knowledge and experience with a lightsaber Depa can't even fathom. So again, bad logic.

4) I've never even pretended to know who the hell this person is, so don't mistake me.

5) This is a line of bullshit.

6) GL went through it word by word? Prove up. That's what I say. Prove the **** up.

7) GL said Vader is 80% of the Force potential and power of Sidious, not that he is 80% the swordsman. Again, taken out of context and twisted to fit your own biased, fanboyisn needs. Great Vengeance, your logic is on a whole new level of untrue, I swear.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Off with the kid's gloves, Vengeance... You're becoming a thorn in our sides...

Your grasping at straws, I really dont have the patience for this anymore think what you want, and btw anyone who doesnt agree with you is a thorn in your side?

Dude, you are pwned. Admit it. YOU don't have crap to come back with.

Janus won this

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Your grasping at straws, I really dont have the patience for this anymore think what you want, and btw anyone who doesnt agree with you is a thorn in your side?

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Dude, you are pwned. Admit it. YOU don't have crap to come back with.

What did you say at all besides a bunch of bs? That you>dog>fly??? That the OFFICIAL ROTS novelization is barely EU? That you dont know who kar vastor is but you discussed it earlier with me when we were talking about shatterpoint? The point that what GL says is canon is full of shit?