Originally posted by Darth Windu
Last thing tonight. . . Rating Time![B]Dueling Skill
Mace- 10
Maul- 6
Vader- 6Force Mastery
Mace- 8
Maul- 4
Vader- 7Raw Power
Mace- 9
Maul- 5
Vader- 8Tactics
Mace- 10
Maul- 6
Vader- 6Against Single Opponent
Mace- 10
Maul- 4
Vader- 5Against Multiple Opponents
Mace- 10
Special Ability/Characteristics
Mace- Shatterpoint
Maul- Arrogance (BAD)
Vader- StrengthMace- 57
Maul- 23
Vader- 32I know I made Maul and Vader look crappy but; AH well. Mace wins on account of having 2 more points; he's the winner. [/B]
Love it, though I don't agree on everything. Please post things like these more in different threads, it's really entertaining to read 🙂
I never went home I just needed a relaxing stroll in the park,
"1) Reread my post. If the situations were reversed, Sidious most likely could not and would not try and retake the high ground from such a position. Hell, he tried to run out the door immediately when he saw Yoda."
If the situations were reversed palps would use some force lightning and fry all the troopers then get back to fighting yoda. Stormtroopers are a non factor in this fight you saw how easily yoda dispatched those 2 royal guards who are among the best non force user fighters in the galaxy.
"2) Your reasoning on the matter was shit. I never disputed that Gl said that, or that it applies. But how you said it applies IS bullshit. GL also said "think outside the box". But you're still stuck in it."
I applied it the way it should be applied, GL says vader is 80% of the emperor I take it as fact, there is no "thinking outside the box" on this one.
"3) Don't have to. I previewed them before I posted. Got anything better?"
No the question is do you have anything besides bs opinion?
"4) How is your way more accurate? For the sake of the others if not myself, lay it out for us in its entirety, "your way"."
Once again if a>b and b>c then a>c. My way is direct and accurate, making excuses like "Well yoda would be better matched with mace" is inaccurate speculation.
"5) People who don't even like me agreed with that accessment. Don't chalk up the multiple observations of Vader's slowness and lack of Force powers as my own little clique... Obviously you don't see it, just like you don't see anything wrong with Vader or Sidious period. You're probably trying to think of how Sidious can beat Revan and Exar Kun."
The only people Ive seen agree with you are your fanboys, and if somone else did well this board is brainwashed anyways...go to the official forums at star wars.com and start claiming mace would beat vader AND maul at the same time, they will do one of 2 things.
1.Flame you to hell.
2.Ignore the ignorant noob.
"As for the last half of your reply, nice try. But take your ball and go home. You have YET to prove Vader and Maul can defeat Mace, and that was the main focus of this thread, which you carefully tried to avoid."
I have made several points on the matter which you sidestepped, you say Ive been avoiding the topic it is you who brought the argument off topic but Ill bring it back.
Mace is seriously overrated on this forum due mostly to the belief he beat palpatine, I dont agree with this for reasons Ive already said, disregarding the supposed win on palpatine the only other significant opponent he has bested is jango fett...Like Ive already stated and you have yet to refute he has lost to kar vastor, he also lost to his padawan and shatterpoint makes it clear they are both stronger than he, Ive already given you quotes to support this. Not to mention in shatterpoint mace struggles with non-force user mercenarys, he is the 2nd in rank amongst the jedi order and a master of the deadly style vaapad but he isnt as powerful as everyone seems to think.
Now lets look at vader, vader was a force the whole galaxy feared, now granted their were very few force users left but WHY do you think there all dead? Vader whiped them all out he was the head of the purge, has any sith in history made the jedi fear him like vader? The only person vader lost to was luke and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Old ben wouldnt even fight vader because he knew it was no use he was too powerful, that is my opinion but still if you think old ben could of defeated vader why the hell didnt he do it? It doesnt make sense.
Now lets look at maul, we dont know a whole lot about him but we know that he took on both obi and qui gon at the same time and still had the advantage most of the fight, If looked at logically maul can be said to have the power of both qui gon and obi combined which is nothing to sneeze at.
I can see why you might think windu would beat vader one on one but vader and maul? It isnt within the realm of possibility no matter how much you try to reason it is.
You havent "PWN3D" anyone, but I have to admit you do put on a good show.
My god vengeance. . . . Mace lost to his Padawan? I suggest you re-read Shatterpoint back to the battle, so you can pick up that bit that says how Mace refused completely to strike back at his old Padawan. And he struggled with the mercenaries because there were nearly a dozen of them, all armed with blasters or REPEATING rifles. And I'm gonna go back to that bit with Vastor. . . . I dunno what happened there.
Originally posted by Darth Windu
My god vengeance. . . . Mace lost to his Padawan? I suggest you re-read Shatterpoint back to the battle, so you can pick up that bit that says how Mace refused completely to strike back at his old Padawan. And he struggled with the mercenaries because there were nearly a dozen of them, all armed with blasters or REPEATING rifles. And I'm gonna go back to that bit with Vastor. . . . I dunno what happened there.
Just out of curosity...but what happened in that book anyway. I only read half of it.
Originally posted by Darth Windu
My god vengeance. . . . Mace lost to his Padawan? I suggest you re-read Shatterpoint back to the battle, so you can pick up that bit that says how Mace refused completely to strike back at his old Padawan. And he struggled with the mercenaries because there were nearly a dozen of them, all armed with blasters or REPEATING rifles. And I'm gonna go back to that bit with Vastor. . . . I dunno what happened there.
I dont believe mace was holding back after all the times depa had betrayed him throughout the book, and besides mace says himself depa was the better swordsman, what is your defense against this? As for the mercenerys it doesnt matter if they had "REPEATING rifles" yoda would of owned them as easily as he owned the imperial guards.
God damn it, Great Vengeance. You are realy annoying. Since most of the stuff here happened on my birthday - and so I missed it - you will get you "ownage" now.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
If the situations were reversed palps would use some force lightning and fry all the troopers then get back to fighting yoda. Stormtroopers are a non factor in this fight you saw how easily yoda dispatched those 2 royal guards who are among the best non force user fighters in the galaxy.
Hell...WHAT ?
a)
If the situations were reversed Palpatine (without having a lightsaber) would need more time to toast all the troopers than they would need to kill him. And he still would have Yoda (aimed with a lightsaber) attacking him.
b)
The situation as given in the movie: Yoda without a lightsaber, being 100 metres under Sidious, clone troopers coming. He COULD have jumped up and battle Sidious with force powers...great deal since Yoda can't kill people with that...
So he could have probably knocked out the troopers...still he had no chance to kill Sidious after doing so since his lightsaber was gone. Why return to a fight that you simply can't win ?
c)
Did you ever mention that Sidious DID RUN AWAY when Yoda wanted to confront him in a "fair" duel. Do you think he did that because he was stronger ?
I applied it the way it should be applied, GL says vader is 80% of the emperor I take it as fact, there is no "thinking outside the box" on this one.
No. You did not. GL said that Vader would have 80 % of Sidious force powers when he is in his suit. Where does that statement refer to lightsaber skills ?
Once again if a>b and b>c then a>c. My way is direct and accurate, making excuses like "Well yoda would be better matched with mace" is inaccurate speculation.
That is stupid because of the persons you used an how you used them.
Mace > Sidious - right
Sidious > Yoda - obviously WRONG
so Mace > Yoda - obviously WRONG
Go read any source you like about Mace and Yoda. Mace is inferior to Yoda in both force use and lightsaber skills. And now the correct statement to use would be:
Yoda > Mace > Sidious
And just because I know you maybe won't get that right. Sidious lost to Mace in a "fair" fight. Yoda was defeated in a at least not "fair" duel. If you put Yoda and Sidious on equal ground and let them fight (Sidious didn't run away from that situation without a reason), Yoda would kill Sidious.
The only people Ive seen agree with you are your fanboys, and if somone else did well this board is brainwashed anyways...go to the official forums at star wars.com and start claiming mace would beat vader AND maul at the same time, they will do one of 2 things.
Now...I agree with Janus. Am I one of his fanboys ?
Mace would take down Maul and Vader at once. Why ?
- Vader (in suit) is lame as hell...not because of bad/missing CGI no because he has two artificial legs.
- Mace is superior in lightsaber skills and force use compared to both of those guys. It took him less than a minute to disarm Sidious - he would kill Maul (who lost to Sidious badly and was his damn slave not even thinking about he could kill his master) in even less time that leaves Mace vs Vader and PLEASE, Vader is NO match for him.
And do you think the people on the "official starwars.com" boards are enlighted beings because they knew how to register on a website ?
Mace is seriously overrated on this forum due mostly to the belief he beat palpatine, I dont agree with this for reasons Ive already said, disregarding the supposed win on palpatine the only other significant opponent he has bested is jango fett...
Oh yes. That he invented his own lightsaber fighting style in the age of 13 doesn't matter ? That he has a unique ability (Shatterpoint) that shows him the weakpoints of his opponents doesn't matter ? That he entered the Jedi Council in an age where other people were just given their Jedi Knight status doesn't matter ?
Can you tell me who was killed by Yoda ? Nobody ? So...Yoda must be totaly overrated on this forum...right ?
Like Ive already stated and you have yet to refute he has lost to kar vastor, he also lost to his padawan and shatterpoint makes it clear they are both stronger than he, Ive already given you quotes to support this. Not to mention in shatterpoint mace struggles with non-force user mercenarys, he is the 2nd in rank amongst the jedi order and a master of the deadly style vaapad but he isnt as powerful as everyone seems to think.
Please STOP BORING US and read that book again.
Now lets look at vader, vader was a force the whole galaxy feared, now granted their were very few force users left but WHY do you think there all dead? Vader whiped them all out he was the head of the purge, has any sith in history made the jedi fear him like vader? The only person vader lost to was luke and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Old ben wouldnt even fight vader because he knew it was no use he was too powerful, that is my opinion but still if you think old ben could of defeated vader why the hell didnt he do it? It doesnt make sense.
Are you completely out of your mind now ?
If any Sith in history made the Jedi fear him like Vader ?
They sended entire ARMIES of force users to kill people like Nadd, Sadow and Kun and ONE single Jedi Knight with less than ONE year of training was enough to defeat Vader. Vader must be kind of a god though, huh ?
And Ben (aka Obi-Wan) did defeat Vader when Vader was more powerful - what makes you think he couldn't have done that again. Oh...wait...if you have ever read "Splinter of the minds eye" - Ben took over Lukes body and defeated Vader. Ups.
Now lets look at maul, we dont know a whole lot about him but we know that he took on both obi and qui gon at the same time and still had the advantage most of the fight, If looked at logically maul can be said to have the power of both qui gon and obi combined which is nothing to sneeze at.
Now...really. You've gone too far. Maul being as powerful as Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon combined. Great...wait...so ROTJ Luke is as powerful as Vader and Sidious combined because he was in a room with both of them and was the only one to come out of that alive, right ?
Oh...stop...Dooku must be GOD because he would have the power of ROTS Obi-Wan and ROTS Anakin COMBINED ! Ph34r the new chosen one !!!!1111oneoneeleven
Really dude...you are as talented in logical reasoning as a dead fish is in freeclimbing.
It says it in the book. . . . and Mace didn't own them because he didn't want to kill them. He was deflecting them away from the bunker as well as he could without hitting the shooters, hoping their sensible leader would stop them; they didn't listen to him. Ih he actually wanted to hurt them he would have ripped them to pieces; literally. And if you count blaster-holes in Jedi Robes as a sign of weakness . . . whatever, man.
Take your ball and go home. You've lost. Nai, thanks for beating me to the punch. Happy birthday, btw. Great Vengeance, I suggest you shamble over to the "official star wars.com forum" and go hang out with the Vader/Sidious fanboys. Maybe you guys can come up with interesting new threads like "wut if annykin killd da emperer" and "cideus vs revan exar koon and superman... cideus winz!"
Here's your sign:
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Well everyone and their mother is against me now, wheres fishy? wheres emperor revan? I give this shit up nai fohl your a good debater even if you do sound like you need a nap(ups) and I dont have the time or desire to continue this damn thread especially with no one supporting vader these days.
Don't feel upset - nobody is trying to make you feel bad. It's just that Vader degenerates quite a bit from ANH onward. He has no real opposition except in the form of a Jedi learner who isn't even a Knight yet. Vader was badass in his prime, which, I think, we never really got a chance to witness, but he perhaps eventually lost some of the twisted hatred and anger that made him so powerful (I'm not sure whether or not this is true, but it seems like a valid point, so, with all due respect, Great Vengeance, it might be easier to try to accept that many people here do, I think, believe in that theory or something like it wholeheartedly, and there's nothing wrong with that).