If a spanking is hard enough to leave bruises, does it not qualify as a beating? Consider this case from Ohio:
Judge rules spanking of girl, 14, by man OK
By Sheila McLaughlin, The Cincinnati Enquirer
January 17, 2003
MASON - A judge on Thursday acquitted a middle-aged psychologist of an assault charge for pulling down a 14-year-old girl's pants and spanking her hard enough to cause bruises.
The prosecutor and children's advocates expressed surprise at the decision in a corporal punishment case that raised questions about how far a nonparent can go in disciplining another person's child.
Gary Freudenthal, 49, of Blue Ash, testified Thursday that he thought he had permission from previous conversations with the girl's grandmother - her legal guardian - to discipline the child, who was a friend of his daughter.
On Aug. 31, Mr. Freudenthal, a single father, said he was upset because the girl was picked up by police the night before on drug and curfew violations when she was supposed to be spending the night at his house after attending a football game with his daughter.
So, he went to the grandmother's Mason home about 9:30 a.m.walked into the girl's bedroom after asking the grandmother where she was, took the girl out of bed, placed her over his knee and spanked her.
When the girl laughed, Mr. Freudenthal said he pulled her bikini bottoms down and administered another spanking. A police officer testified that the spanking caused bruising on the girls' upper legs and buttocks.
"I spanked her hard enough so she could feel it ... so it would sting, so she wouldn't be able to sit down, so she would remember it," Mr. Freudenthal testified. "She was so out of control."
He said he hugged the girl after the spanking and told her, "I'm sorry it has come to this, but I want you to live."
The girl's grandmother said she did not give Mr. Freudenthal permission to strike the child, although she had discussed her granddaughter's discipline problems with Mr. Freudenthal.
City Prosecutor Robert Peeler told Judge George Parker that the issue was clear-cut: "Did he commit an act where he caused or attempted to cause physical harm?" to the teen, which are the elements of a misdemeanor assault charge.
"This case was about whether a 49-year-old man has the right to go into someone else's house and pull down the pants of the 14 year-old girl and strike her," Mr. Peeler said after Judge Parker issued his verdict.
"It was undisputed there was physical harm. My position was that under any set of circumstances, (Mr. Freudenthal) crossed the line."
Judge Parker alluded to a police report that included comments from the girl's grandmother that the spanking was "appropriate." The grandmother denied that statement from the witness stand.
Mr. Freudenthal said he was relieved by the verdict and insisted that he did nothing wrong.
"I was trying so hard to be there for this kid," he said, adding that he felt he was acting in a parental capacity that day. "Parents should be free to do what is in their best perception to control their children."
Yvette McGee Brown, president of the Center for Child and Family Advocacy in Columbus and a former domestic relations and juvenile judge in Franklin County, said she was puzzled by the verdict, given the circumstances of the case.
"It sounds like assault. There is no authority I'm aware of that gives someone who is not the parent the right to spank or hit the child," she said.
However, if consent was clearly given, a judge or jury could lean toward acquitting the defendant, she said.
"You can't hit a neighbor's dog, so what was he doing hitting a teen-age girl?" said Nadine A. Block, executive director of the Center for Effective Discipline, a Columbus-based national organization that opposes corporal punishment.
A stranger shouldn't have the right to hit your child. That is abuse, not to mention when children reach a certain age, I don't think spanking is tolerable anymore. 14 is too old in my opinion for spanking.
And in regards to the bruising thing, people have different kinds of skin, I mean some people are quite sensitive and the smallest contact can bruise.
Originally posted by silver_tears
A stranger shouldn't have the right to hit your child. That is abuse, not to mention when children reach a certain age, I don't think spanking is tolerable anymore. 14 is too old in my opinion for spanking.And in regards to the bruising thing, people have different kinds of skin, I mean some people are quite sensitive and the smallest contact can bruise.
OK, so a spanking that causes bruises may or may not be a beating, depending on your skin type. But why do you feel spanking should never be allowed for older kids? (BTW, even high school seniors can be paddled by teachers in many places in the South.)
Originally posted by blwpyrtv
If a spanking is hard enough to leave bruises, does it not qualify as a beating? Consider this case from Ohio:[B]Judge rules spanking of girl, 14, by man OK
By Sheila McLaughlin, The Cincinnati Enquirer
January 17, 2003MASON - A judge on Thursday acquitted a middle-aged psychologist of an assault charge for pulling down a 14-year-old girl's pants and spanking her hard enough to cause bruises.
The prosecutor and children's advocates expressed surprise at the decision in a corporal punishment case that raised questions about how far a nonparent can go in disciplining another person's child.
Gary Freudenthal, 49, of Blue Ash, testified Thursday that he thought he had permission from previous conversations with the girl's grandmother - her legal guardian - to discipline the child, who was a friend of his daughter.
On Aug. 31, Mr. Freudenthal, a single father, said he was upset because the girl was picked up by police the night before on drug and curfew violations when she was supposed to be spending the night at his house after attending a football game with his daughter.
So, he went to the grandmother's Mason home about 9:30 a.m.walked into the girl's bedroom after asking the grandmother where she was, took the girl out of bed, placed her over his knee and spanked her.
When the girl laughed, Mr. Freudenthal said he pulled her bikini bottoms down and administered another spanking. A police officer testified that the spanking caused bruising on the girls' upper legs and buttocks.
"I spanked her hard enough so she could feel it ... so it would sting, so she wouldn't be able to sit down, so she would remember it," Mr. Freudenthal testified. "She was so out of control."
He said he hugged the girl after the spanking and told her, "I'm sorry it has come to this, but I want you to live."
The girl's grandmother said she did not give Mr. Freudenthal permission to strike the child, although she had discussed her granddaughter's discipline problems with Mr. Freudenthal.
City Prosecutor Robert Peeler told Judge George Parker that the issue was clear-cut: "Did he commit an act where he caused or attempted to cause physical harm?" to the teen, which are the elements of a misdemeanor assault charge.
"This case was about whether a 49-year-old man has the right to go into someone else's house and pull down the pants of the 14 year-old girl and strike her," Mr. Peeler said after Judge Parker issued his verdict.
"It was undisputed there was physical harm. My position was that under any set of circumstances, (Mr. Freudenthal) crossed the line."
Judge Parker alluded to a police report that included comments from the girl's grandmother that the spanking was "appropriate." The grandmother denied that statement from the witness stand.
Mr. Freudenthal said he was relieved by the verdict and insisted that he did nothing wrong.
"I was trying so hard to be there for this kid," he said, adding that he felt he was acting in a parental capacity that day. "Parents should be free to do what is in their best perception to control their children."
Yvette McGee Brown, president of the Center for Child and Family Advocacy in Columbus and a former domestic relations and juvenile judge in Franklin County, said she was puzzled by the verdict, given the circumstances of the case.
"It sounds like assault. There is no authority I'm aware of that gives someone who is not the parent the right to spank or hit the child," she said.
However, if consent was clearly given, a judge or jury could lean toward acquitting the defendant, she said.
"You can't hit a neighbor's dog, so what was he doing hitting a teen-age girl?" said Nadine A. Block, executive director of the Center for Effective Discipline, a Columbus-based national organization that opposes corporal punishment. [/B]
I don't want to pass any judgement on the guy, however, I don't believe spanking this girl was the best method to take care of the problem. Particularly since the girl was 14 years of age, and since she wasn't his child.
There were definately other methods he could have used, such as bringing the kid to the police station and having her spend a night in lock up, making her do excessive work, or just simply sending her back to her parents.
Still I gotta say that his method definately had an impact on the girl, which I believe was the man's intention. She'll always remember this incident. Hopefully she'll also learn from it, and will cease participating in illegal activities.
Ugh, the man was blatantly and factually 100% in the wrong. It wasn't even his daughter for shits sake.
A stranger spanking a kid is not nearly comparable to your parents spanking you.
I hope the man gets punished accordingly, maybe get his ass smacked a little bit in prison for being such a horrendous idiot.
Originally posted by silver_tears
A stranger shouldn't have the right to hit your child. That is abuse, not to mention when children reach a certain age, I don't think spanking is tolerable anymore. 14 is too old in my opinion for spanking.
Agree with silver tears here. And also I would apply that same rule to myself. I have no reason to correct another person's child. Getting physical with the kid is just not right. Except if you're trying to break a fight or defending yourself. But grabbing a child and spaking him for doing something silly is no reason for abuse.
Originally posted by BackFire
Ugh, the man was blatantly and factually 100% in the wrong. It wasn't even his daughter for shits sake.A stranger spanking a kid is not nearly comparable to your parents spanking you.
I hope the man gets punished accordingly, maybe get his ass smacked a little bit in prison for being such a horrendous idiot.
He probably is just doing a cover. I bet you ten bucks that he did it not for discipline, but sexual pleasure.
OK,
I think that spanking is definitely OK on the circumstances that:
It is you child,
You don't make it serious like a beating or anything.
That guy who spank that girl definitely had no right doing it for any reason.
He didn't have any permission, if he had permission to discipline her in that fashion I think it would be fin if he didn't do so hard that it left any serious bruise marks.(its supposed to leave a bruise, thats how you get the point across. Heck, I ve been spanked with frigging belts and wodden soons for Gods sake!)
I f you choose to discipline you child by spanking, go ahead.
Nobody should have any say in the way you discipline your child if its not beating the child so severely that blood comes out of their butt.
What I really hate is when people feel like they have to raise your child against you if you do more discipline then sending you child to the corner.
Ive heard of people calling the police and getting children taken away from their parents because they were spanked in public.