Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
None of that is a sign of weakness though. Especially considering that, his most pointed out low showing, the fight against the Arrancar, he was weakened, and immedietly after removing the weakening seal he won effortlessly.
Toshiro's fight with Shawlong or something was the only legit victory he had IMO. He couldn't scratch Yammy in shikai...but neither could Ichigo so I guess that can be excused. Luppi lost because he was being cocky and didn't go in for the kill(fanservice) plus Toshiro got prep time while being seemingly knocked out.
Taking Hallibel out the fight was straight bullshit! Even if she wasn't a great tres Espada, it's just wrong for Toshiro to be keeping up with #3 when he was almost killed by sub #6.
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanTaking out your Bankai for every single fight right away while being a supposed "genius" makes him look like a weak idiot, actually.
None of that is a sign of weakness though. Especially considering that, his most pointed out low showing, the fight against the Arrancar, he was weakened, and immedietly after removing the weakening seal he won effortlessly.Dunno, I think Toshiro's hated for the same reason Halo is.
Also, even if he had no weaknesses it would not change him sucking, Aizen is so incredibly infallible and is still a really boring character, which largely has to do with his amazing supercompetence.
For his popularity? There is some truth to that. He's also so INCREDIBLY bland and dull, I truly cannot figure out what people like about him so much.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Taking out your Bankai for every single fight right away while being a supposed "genius" makes him look like a weak idiot, actually.
Byakuya clearly explained that the Bankai was not for weaklings and is sort of a "sacred" ability that should be used only when necessary.
That coincides perfectly with what we see through the entire manga.
Yamamoto didn't even use his Bankai. Nor did the strong captain duo, nor did Kisuke, Yoruichi, Isshin, bla bla bla and so forth. Apparanlty, only people that are weak and would die without using it, use it.
Ichigo, while not weak, has limited control over his powers and is relatively inexperienced. He has an excuse.
That just happens to be the same exact excuse for Toshiro. 🙁
Originally posted by NemeBro
Taking out your Bankai for every single fight right away while being a supposed "genius" makes him look like a weak idiot, actually.
Er, no it doesn't, it actually makes him look smart. This whole time that the Shinigami have been fighting the Hollows, the fate of the entire planet is at stake, it's not some silly little video game or something. Anyone who doesn't whip out their strongest abilities right off the bat is a fool. Where are all these cool kids who haven't used their bankai yet? They're lying on the ground in a puddle of their own blood. So hoorah they still look cool, but they're completely useless now. Yeah Toshiro still lost even with his bankai activated but he should at least get credit for not playing games. So, you say that he looks weak, I say that it looks like he just doesn't **** around, which I appreciate. Bleach largely suffers from the same stupidity as Dragon Ball Z and, now, Naruto (Pre-Shippuden didn't really this problem as bad until the dumb curse seal idea): "Hahaha, you've managed to defeat this form, but let's see how well you do against this form!" Why not just ****ing use that form from the very beginning and win quickly instead of risking life and limb and playing around? It's stupid. The only excuse for that type of stuff is if that form has deadly side affects or something, like it cuts down your life span or something with every use. Otherwise, no reason.
Also, even if he had no weaknesses it would not change him sucking, Aizen is so incredibly infallible and is still a really boring character, which largely has to do with his amazing supercompetence.For his popularity? There is some truth to that. He's also so INCREDIBLY bland and dull, I truly cannot figure out what people like about him so much.
I like him because of his powers, mostly. Same reason why I like Neji. I also like him because, to reiterate, he usually doesn't **** around when it comes to whipping out his top abilities. None of this mess around with shikai for twenty chapters then use bankai/hollow crap in the last chapter to win instantly crap. Only exception being how he defeated Halibel, but, he had a valid excuse for not using that technique from the get go.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Byakuya clearly explained that the Bankai was not for weaklings and is sort of a "sacred" ability that should be used only when necessary.That coincides perfectly with what we see through the entire manga.
Yamamoto didn't even use his Bankai. Nor did the strong captain duo, nor did Kisuke, Yoruichi, Isshin, bla bla bla and so forth. Apparanlty, only people that are weak and would die without using it, use it.
The only problem with that line of thought is that all of those people (except for Byakuya) are now either dead/dying or incapacitated, and thus they are useless. I guess the moral of the story is that the majority of the Shinigami in Bleach are idiots.
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanOr.
Er, no it doesn't, it actually makes him look smart. This whole time that the Shinigami have been fighting the Hollows, the fate of the entire planet is at stake, it's not some silly little video game or something. Anyone who doesn't whip out their strongest abilities right off the bat is a fool. Where are all these cool kids who haven't used their bankai yet? They're lying on the ground in a puddle of their own blood. So hoorah they still look cool, but they're completely useless now. Yeah Toshiro still lost even with his bankai activated but he should at least get credit for not playing games. So, you say that he looks weak, I say that it looks like he just doesn't **** around, which I appreciate. Bleach largely suffers from the same stupidity as Dragon Ball Z and, now, Naruto (Pre-Shippuden didn't really this problem as bad until the dumb curse seal idea): "Hahaha, you've managed to defeat this form, but let's see how well you do against this form!" Why not just ****ing use that form from the very beginning and win quickly instead of risking life and limb and playing around? It's stupid. The only excuse for that type of stuff is if that form has deadly side affects or something, like it cuts down your life span or something with every use. Otherwise, no reason.I like him because of his powers, mostly. Same reason why I like Neji. I also like him because, to reiterate, he usually doesn't **** around when it comes to whipping out his top abilities. None of this mess around with shikai for twenty chapters then use bankai/hollow crap in the last chapter to win instantly crap. Only exception being how he defeated Halibel, but, he had a valid excuse for not using that technique from the get go.
It can show your opponent all that you are able to do at the very start of the fight, and allow them to counter your attacks far more effectively, so now while you do not know the full extent of your opponent's attacks, he now knows everything you can do, not counting that random attack Kubo just pulled out of his ass.
I would agree that the people who fought Aizen were idiots for not using their Bankai, but that is because they are fighting ****ing AIZEN who is so supercompetent that he can counter any and all of your abilities, so it would be better to start off using something that he does not know about (Bankai)... Only for him to counter that too.
Originally posted by NemeBro
[B]Or.It can show your opponent all that you are able to do at the very start of the fight, and allow them to counter your attacks far more effectively, so now while you do not know the full extent of your opponent's attacks, he now knows everything you can do, not counting that random attack Kubo just pulled out of his ass.
And we've seen how well that's worked out for... everybody. Can you recall any instance in the manga where someone won a fight specifically because they waited until after they were beaten up and bloodied to use their strongest abilities, instead of using it right from the start? Personally, I can't except for the weaker people who rely on prep like Ishida. I can recall people losing without using their bankai, and I can recall people using it at the end of the battle and losing anyway.
I would agree that the people who fought Aizen were idiots for not using their Bankai, but that is because they are fighting ****ing AIZEN who is so supercompetent that he can counter any and all of your abilities, so it would be better to start off using something that he does not know about (Bankai)... Only for him to counter that too.It would be better? It didn't work, they all lost.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican1. Nah. You're wrong.
And we've seen how well that's worked out for... everybody. Can you recall any instance in the manga where someone won a fight specifically because they waited until after they were beaten up and bloodied to use their strongest abilities, instead of using it right from the start? Personally, I can't except for the weaker people who rely on prep like Ishida. I can recall people losing without using their bankai, and I can recall people using it at the end of the battle and losing anyway.It would be better? It didn't work, they all lost.
2. ? Only Hitsugaya was using his Bankai. And Sajin, I guess.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The only problem with that line of thought is that all of those people (except for Byakuya) are now either dead/dying or incapacitated, and thus they are useless. I guess the moral of the story is that the majority of the Shinigami in Bleach are idiots.
I don't see it as a problem but more of something that's in agreement with what Byakuya said: it's sacred and is not used very often.
Isshin was doing fine. Aizen was doing better than fine. Yamamoto couldn't use his due to a certain hollow being around (however, Yamamoto could have stopped the whole damn thing, in an instant, right as they started...Killed Gin, Aizen, all of the Espada, etc. But where would the story be if he did that? lol) Ukitake and Shunsui were doing just fine until Aizen decided to perv out on the crystal. Kisuke was doing more than fine before the "screen" panned away, as was Yoruichi.
In fact, all of them were doing fine, minus the Espada #2 fight, without their bankais...until some plot device (releases or other powers) go in the way.
Prolly the epitome of "sacred secret bankai" is Baldy.
The only ones using the Bankai right out of the gate is Ichigo and Toshiro. An excellent explanation for that is: they are both young and experienced..and both are learning how to control their abilities.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Er, no it doesn't, it actually makes him look smart. This whole time that the Shinigami have been fighting the Hollows, the fate of the entire planet is at stake, it's not some silly little video game or something. Anyone who doesn't whip out their strongest abilities right off the bat is a fool. Where are all these cool kids who haven't used their bankai yet? They're lying on the ground in a puddle of their own blood. So hoorah they still look cool, but they're completely useless now. Yeah Toshiro still lost even with his bankai activated but he should at least get credit for not playing games. So, you say that he looks weak, I say that it looks like he just doesn't **** around, which I appreciate. Bleach largely suffers from the same stupidity as Dragon Ball Z and, now, Naruto (Pre-Shippuden didn't really this problem as bad until the dumb curse seal idea): "Hahaha, you've managed to defeat this form, but let's see how well you do against this form!" Why not just ****ing use that form from the very beginning and win quickly instead of risking life and limb and playing around? It's stupid. The only excuse for that type of stuff is if that form has deadly side affects or something, like it cuts down your life span or something with every use. Otherwise, no reason.
Well, the Naruto cursed seals (and a lot of high-end techniques like mangekyo powers or creation rebirth) do have that kind of drawback. The longer you stay in cursed seal the more it hurts. Sasuke ironcially burned out on doing just the opposite, constant-on susano'o.
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Not using Vizard masks actually kinda makes sense too, since it's tapping into the hollow side.
But bankai? The only disadvantage appears to be that it uses up power, and Ichigo runs around with his for extended periods so it's not even all that much.
Captains who are seemingly desperate to never bankai, and don't even pull it out against freaking Aizen of all people (against whom being standing in one minute is a good sign, so endurance is not a big concern), does make them seem pretty dumb.
The exceptions being Soi Fon's (her bankai has a specific tactical use and limited ammo, it's smart to not use it too much), situationally Toshiro (due to the time limit, though that's limited enough that he's right in busting it out when he does), and... hm, Komamura's giant may not be best for all situations.
It's especially bad that the most senior captains didn't use theirs. Yamamoto, Unohana, Shunsui, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Shinji, Rose, Love, Isshin.
I know Shunsui didn't want to show his for some reason... but whatever the reason, he should swallow his pride when facing a threat as big as Aizen.
Unless there's some reason that people past a certain power can't use their bankais, it feels pretty dumb that 10 of their best fighters didn't chose to multiply their fighting power by several times.
If it means anything, Kensei used his bankai against Wonderweiss and presumably losed. So maybe bankai really isn't the answer although why he didn't use his mask is still a mystery.
Even if all the captain's used their bankai, Aizen still had them under hypnosis so everyone but Yamamoto and possibly Unohana would have been taken out anyway.
Well it's more just a matter of priorities. The Shinigami know that Aizen is A) Stronger then most of them in direct combat, and B) Has a broken shikai that with enough time or focus can render all their shit obsolete. So logic would dictate that there is nothing to gain from not busting out all their best shit when facing an enemy who is stronger then all of them and who's victory would mean, essentially, the end of the world.
But, we all know what the real reason is for why they didn't use them. According to Kubo there's going to be at least two more arcs after Aizen's defeat, and one of them is expected to be almost as long as the arrancar arc has been (going on four years now), so he needs fresh material to present to us for later.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
If it means anything, Kensei used his bankai against Wonderweiss and presumably losed. So maybe bankai really isn't the answer although why he didn't use his mask is still a mystery.
That's why I didn't include him, but it was still sensible to do so.
Even if all the captain's used their bankai, Aizen still had them under hypnosis so everyone but Yamamoto and possibly Unohana would have been taken out anyway.
Still, even if you don't win, anything to wear down Aizen would help. By the time he was done with Isshin, he was actually looking pretty rough. If he was weakened more, then Urahara and Yoruichi might've had a real shot at winning before his full awakening.
They knew they had aces in the hole like Ichigo, so just making him use more power is worth it.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican1. The evidence was planted by Satan and to discuss it means you are going to Hell.
Proooooof?I was referring to the "It would be better to mess around with weaker abilities first instead of going for Bankai at the beginning". It didn't work.
2. I said that Aizen would be an exception to that rule, based on him being, you know, Aizen.