The Official BLEACH series Thread

Agreed. I wanted to delete everything I had just typed out when I got to the end of all of those posts when you said you usually argue for moral relativism. I decided to keep it because someone somewhere might care to read all of that bullshit.

Funnily enough I had the same impulse about my post. It's a funny old world we live in.

What do you mean "thinking" because, yes, Horses are thinking beings. So are rats. So are most fish. Anything that has a "brain" and can retrieve memories from that brain and act on those memories in conjunction with how their genetics tell them to act (duel influences), then, yes, that organism is a thinking being. Are there other scientific definitions of what constitutes "thinking" because I'm always up for learning something new.

You know what I mean. They are not capable of reason or logic. Thats why I used the word Sapience rather than Sentience. Horses do not 'think' as we do. They rely on instinct etc and live life free of ambition and language. We are different. We can reason. We can argue on internet forums. Thats what I meant.

Serious question: do we know if that "group" referred to in the portion you are talking about...do we know if that is the same group as Ishida, his father, and his Grandfather? Or was it a different group? I say it was a different group excluding "Granpa" because Mayuri got his hands on them and dissected them.

I agree that Soken was in contact with SS thus proving that they were aware of his group (but we already knew that), but that does not prove that SS had become "nice" to them, yet.

I don't know if there were different groups or not. The whole thing is very vague, not made clearer by Uruhara's version painting them as the bad guys but Ishida's painting them as noble.

They were nice enough to come and rescue him. Or at least have orders to come to his aid, even though they were bribed not to.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He was stunned because he was about to die. I don't see why any other reason would apply especially when killing within the Gotei 13 ranks is quite common in Squad 11.

He was stunned because the captain lied just to use him as a bomb. If Mayuri were known for such cruelty, no one would trust him so easily. Hell, no one would want to be in Division 12 if the Captain was a known psycho.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He was stunned because the captain lied just to use him as a bomb. If Mayuri were known for such cruelty, no one would trust him so easily. Hell, no one would want to be in Division 12 if the Captain was a known psycho.

Unohana seems to be quite aware of his mad scientist status. So does Urahara. In fact, Central 46 seemed aware of it which is why he was the only person in solitary confinement at the maggot's nest.

His squad is the squad of "vengeance, strictness, and independence."

Additionally, the Bleach "Bootleg" says this on the Wiki:

"The 12th Division is a one-man division, with Mayuri Kurotsuchi having absolute authority. If one dares to utter an opinion, he could very well find himself reconstructed into a human bomb. The secret to longevity here is working quietly and without being noticed."

That supports exactly what I was talking about earlier with Nephthys: he can do whatever he wants in his squad. I don't think that's specific to just Squad 12, either: I think that's true of all the Gotei 13. I cannot support that beyond squad 11, however, as only Kenpachi made reference to being able to "discipline" his squad members. So it could only be true of squads 11 and 12. But that further reinforces my OTHER point that the squads are mostly independent military branches of SS which was stated in the Bount arc (non-canon.) They are a loose association.

Also, WTF is this Official Bootleg book that the Wiki keeps referencing? Am I that much of a Bleach noob? 🙁

Originally posted by Nephthys
Funnily enough I had the same impulse about my post. It's a funny old world we live in.

I will admit one thing: we are almost equally hard-headed. estahuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
You know what I mean. They are not capable of reason or logic. Thats why I used the word Sapience rather than Sentience. Horses do not 'think' as we do. They rely on instinct etc and live life free of ambition and language. We are different. We can reason. We can argue on internet forums. Thats what I meant.

Actually, I didn't know what you meant. That's why I wanted to make it clear that it wasn't a "pissing match" post like that previous ones. I was genuinely curious.

I'm aware of the definitions of sapience and sentience. This is why I'm confused because a horse certainly does learn from his or her experiences and acts in more favorable ways. They can "learn", basically, which is the application of knowledge. AKA: wisdom.

I apologize for how rude I was earlier about this topic so let me rephrase what I was telling you earlier: the only lines we can draw are almost completely arbitrary and are definitely anthropic (humanly driven assessments because we want to judge the world around us through human eyes). Hell, some horses can count which is absurd, don't you think?

Most genuinely...I HATE this topic. It's so retarded because no matter what you are I say about it a third party can ALWAYS say, "but that line you just drew is arbitrary AND NOT SUBJECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" While that's true...I think that a new word should be invented that avoids the problems of sapience and sentience: caculesence.

It's a new word I just invented right now that means any organism (or it's species) that is capable of Calculus.

Yes, I got that from Mass Effect 2.

Yes, it's arbitrary and, more than ever, points towards a completely subjective conclusion. But calculus would be a universal math that would HAVE to occur AFTER a sentient species discovered gravitational mechanics.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know if there were different groups or not. The whole thing is very vague, not made clearer by Uruhara's version painting them as the bad guys but Ishida's painting them as noble.

From the flashbacks, Soken was DEFINITELY a good guy. In fact, from what we see, he was one of the most "good" characters in the series. It's hard to see the Quincy as evil but we can say this: they are very stubborn if what Mayuri says is true. This may be what lead to the war because they refused to give up their ideals on hollows being real evil. It's possible that they thought the Shinigami were lying about the worlds ending?

That's mostly speculation, of course.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They were nice enough to come and rescue him. Or at least have orders to come to his aid, even though they were bribed not to.

I think that's part of shinigami having to defend humans as part of their job, though. At the end of the day, Quincy are humans, too...just humans with mad spiritual powers. 313

Originally posted by dadudemon
Considering I pretty much agree with you, I'd say there's really no debate to be had between us.

You can address this post:

Is Mayuri considered criminally evil by SS or is he a tolerated mad scientist? I don't care about the real world because we ALL agree that he's evil by our own personal measures. Obviously, I think SS deems him just as a mad scientist but not criminally evil (any longer.)

Of course he is tolerated. Otherwise he would not be a captain.

Though honestly, Soul Society is a giant shit-sandwich, so I don't really care what it thinks.

You die and your afterlife is the ghetto, wtf **** Soul Society.

However, we do not know to what extent they know of his crimes. He is also inarguably the most evil captain, Kenpachi is the second most evil, and even he is nowhere near that bad, he actually gives a shit about his subordinates for one. Oh, and look at how Kenpachi treats his "daughter." At least, I assume she is basically his adopted kid, I am not ready to consider whether or not Kenpachi is a pedophile. While you could argue Nemu is not technically a Shinigami, clearly Soul Society does not consider her a second class citizen. She is a Lieutenant in the Gotei 13, and is being considered for the position of the next Vice-President of the Shinigami Women's Association. You have no idea how much I hate myself for knowing that. Not to mention I am biased, since Nemu is so cute and he is a big poophead for abusing her. D: Oh, and no one else in the Gotei 13 has actually killed their subordinates so cruelly, especially when it didn't actually serve a purpose. When Mayuri killed the Shinigami that survived because "Bombs aren't supposed to come back," is particularly heinous, at that point, his death served no beneficial purpose.

But you are right, Soul Society obviously tolerates what they know about him. Probably because he is much more useful with them than against them or dead, Mayuri is a good ally to have, and it is fortunate for them that his ambitions do not pose a threat to them. But if this be the case, if SS knows about everything he does and allows it, while perhaps not "evil" on their part, it is morally questionable.

Honestly, what bothers me most about Mayuri isn't just his inconsistant portrayal. It is the fact that Uryu seems to have ****ing forgotten all about how much he hates the guy, the only thought he had on Mayuri when they met again was "It's that shady scientist..." Um, what? Can't use a bit stronger language to refer to the ****er who killed grandad and SHOWED YOU A PICTURE OF HIS SEVERED HEAD?

In short, this is why Aizen being a good gai could plausibly happen. 😄

Favorite Bleach character?

Uryu. Gin for second.

BARRAGAN. estahuh

Barragan is one. mmm

Also like Neliel, Tatsuki, Kenpachi, Yamamoto, Gin, Nemu, Soifon, Orihime (Sometimes, when she is all cute and shit), Riruka, Ginjo, and (surprise) Soul Society arc Mayuri. Just because the character is a despicable monster does not mean I won't like them. Those are a few characters I like.

Originally posted by NemeBro
YOUR FACE AGREES WITH ME.

Of course he is tolerated. Otherwise he would not be a captain.

Though honestly, Soul Society is a giant shit-sandwich, so I don't really care what it thinks.

You die and your afterlife is the ghetto, wtf **** Soul Society.

However, we do not know to what extent they know of his crimes. He is also inarguably the most evil captain, Kenpachi is the second most evil, and even he is nowhere near that bad, he actually gives a shit about his subordinates for one. Oh, and look at how Kenpachi treats his "daughter." At least, I assume she is basically his adopted kid, I am not ready to consider whether or not Kenpachi is a pedophile. While you could argue Nemu is not technically a Shinigami, clearly Soul Society does not consider her a second class citizen. She is a Lieutenant in the Gotei 13, and is being considered for the position of the next Vice-President of the Shinigami Women's Association. You have no idea how much I hate myself for knowing that. Not to mention I am biased, since Nemu is so cute and he is a big poophead for abusing her. D: Oh, and no one else in the Gotei 13 has actually killed their subordinates so cruelly, especially when it didn't actually serve a purpose. When Mayuri killed the Shinigami that survived because "Bombs aren't supposed to come back," is particularly heinous, at that point, his death served no beneficial purpose.

But you are right, Soul Society obviously tolerates what they know about him. Probably because he is much more useful with them than against them or dead, Mayuri is a good ally to have, and it is fortunate for them that his ambitions do not pose a threat to them. But if this be the case, if SS knows about everything he does and allows it, while perhaps not "evil" on their part, it is morally questionable.

Honestly, what bothers me most about Mayuri isn't just his inconsistant portrayal. It is the fact that Uryu seems to have ****ing forgotten all about how much he hates the guy, the only thought he had on Mayuri when they met again was "It's that shady scientist..." Um, what? Can't use a bit stronger language to refer to the ****er who killed grandad and SHOWED YOU A PICTURE OF HIS SEVERED HEAD?

In short, this is why Aizen being a good gai could plausibly happen. 😄

I agree that she is not treated as a second-class citizen but it is possible since Mayuri can beat on her. However, that could be due to squad 12 being operated differently than all other squads except for squad 11 as it appears both squads' captains can beat their subordinates or even kill them. IMO, it's more likely that it's the role of the squad captain that gives them that authority than it is her being a second class citizen. However, her "second class"-ness is still a possibility considering how SS treated the artificial spirits like Kon.

And, yes, I was a bit irritated by Kubo showing Ishida as only annoyed by Mayuri. It's possible that his mad self-control and superior intellect have allowed him to be a master of the emotions. Also, Mayuri seemed uninterested in doing any more harm. It's also possible that Mayuri lied about the grandfather thing just to throw Ishida off (as I mentioned prior) and it was resolved off panel. Most of those are baseless speculation. We could just conclude the most simple reason of: Kubo writes like a piece of shit, at times.

So, yeah, it's possible that Aizen COULD end up being a bad guy...but I consider that far less likely than Ishida and Mayuri reaching an understanding off panel.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Uryu. Gin for second.

Originally posted by NemeBro
BARRAGAN. estahuh

Barragan is one. mmm

Also like Neliel, Tatsuki, Kenpachi, Yamamoto, Gin, Nemu, Soifon, Orihime (Sometimes, when she is all cute and shit), Riruka, Ginjo, and (surprise) Soul Society arc Mayuri. Just because the character is a despicable monster does not mean I won't like them. Those are a few characters I like.

Hmm...expected. From both of you.

Can you guess who my favorite is? 😮

Ichigo?

I like Tatsuki, Yoruichi and Soi-Fon. And Hollow Ichigo's always a blast.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hmm...expected. From both of you.

Can you guess who my favorite is? 😮

Mizuiro Kojima?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree that she is not treated as a second-class citizen but it is possible since Mayuri can beat on her. However, that could be due to squad 12 being operated differently than all other squads except for squad 11 as it appears both squads' captains can beat their subordinates or even kill them. IMO, it's more likely that it's the role of the squad captain that gives them that authority than it is her being a second class citizen. However, her "second class"-ness is still a possibility considering how SS treated the artificial spirits like Kon.

And, yes, I was a bit irritated by Kubo showing Ishida as only annoyed by Mayuri. It's possible that his mad self-control and superior intellect have allowed him to be a master of the emotions. Also, Mayuri seemed uninterested in doing any more harm. It's also possible that Mayuri lied about the grandfather thing just to throw Ishida off (as I mentioned prior) and it was resolved off panel. Most of those are baseless speculation. We could just conclude the most simple reason of: Kubo writes like a piece of shit, at times.

So, yeah, it's possible that Aizen COULD end up being a bad guy...but I consider that far less likely than Ishida and Mayuri reaching an understanding off panel.

Mayuri lied? We saw a picture of his severed head... Yeah, the final reason, that is probably the right one. 😐 Kubo being a douchebag.

I think you meant good guy. 😛 Mayuri never met Uryu off-panel, at least it was never alluded to, IIRC. And no, it is not likely... In most series. This is the same guy who had the 0th Espada beaten off-panel, and just generally is a poopface.

Aizen: WHOEVER SAID THAT I WAS THE VILLAIN OF THIS STORY?

Edit: Also, Aura, no one ****ing cares, but knowing you, it is probably someone lame as **** like Ulquiorra.

All 3 of you are wrong. Nobody gets me! T.T

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ichigo?

I like Tatsuki, Yoruichi and Soi-Fon. And Hollow Ichigo's always a blast.

Old Man Zangetsu is also pretty bawss.
Thing about Bleach is that it has quite a number of awesome characters (IMO), but they just end up getting the short end of the stick, while Ichigo and Aizen stand and laugh at them.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hmm...expected. From both of you.

Can you guess who my favorite is? 😮

You know me so well.

Not wanting Nemebro to outdo me, I will also name all the characters I like that are not Uryu or Gin.

Let's see: Isshin Kurosaki, Urahara, Yoruichi, Orihime, Tatsuki, Keigo, Chizuru (lesbianism is hawt), Ryuuken Ishida, Shinji, Kensei, Lisa, Ginjo, Yamamoto, Soi-Fon, Kira, Unohana, Hanatarou, Pre-Evolved Aizen, Byakuya, Renji, Tetsuzaemon, Shunsui Kyoraku, Shuhei Hisagi, Rangiku, Kenpachi, Yachiru, Ikkaku, Yumichika, Nemu, Jushiro Ukitake, Kaien Ganju & Kikaku Shiba, Starrk, Uluquiorra, Grimmjow, Nel, Dordoni, Charlotte Chuhluhourne, Zangetsu, & Hollow Ichigo.

313

Yoruichi? Yuzu Kurosaki? Yukio? (PSP gai)

I do think PSP gai is cool. But not him. It's a female character by the way. 😮

Nel? Rukia? One of Ichigo's sisters?

Orihime? Rukia? Rangiku?

Nah, Nel just pretty much served no purpose. I like characters that serve a purpose. Granted, Orihime serves a purpose and I despise her...so yeah.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Orihime? Rukia? Rangiku?

Hate her. Correct. Fanservice ftw with that last one though.

Edit: Yeah, Ichigo has some cool sisters.

Aah, Rukia. Yeah she was pretty damn cool until she dropped out of the story and/or relevence for about 200 chapters. Her relationship with Ichigo was one of the best things in the manga until the retardation of the Espada arc. Up till she slaps Ichigo out of his funk basically. Unfortunately she's a mediocre fighter in a Shounen, and a woman, so naturally her screen time drops like a stone.