The second Vader betrayed the Emperor in RotJ, he was back to being Anakin. Vade had no son, Anakin did. Vader would not care what happened to Luke, Anakin would.
So the emo kid killed the most powerful being in the galaxy.
Edit: Also, Byakuya lied. Tsukishima should never have gotten this far if Byakuya kept his word. Honor my ass.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The second Vader betrayed the Emperor in RotJ, he was back to being Anakin. Vade had no son, Anakin did. Vader would not care what happened to Luke, Anakin would.
I see this is a false dilema:
Vader and Anakin are the same exact person.
Anakin was never diagnosed with Dissociative identity disorder. In fact, we know exaclty what went down: it was just his Sith title.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader just knew he was going to die anyway because his life-support was damaged and he wanted to look at Luke with his own eyes before he snuffed it. He was going to die whether he took the mask off or not.'In response to Luke's protest that he would die without the mask, Skywalker responded "Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes."'
Odd, I see his words as exactly supporting what I stated.
And considering that Luke did "rescue' Vader, we know it was lies. We later see Luke burning vader's body in the standard "jedi death" burial.
So what was it talking about? Oh, right, Vader had still not forgiven himself...and he still thought of himself as Vader. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
Odd, I see his words as exactly supporting what I stated.And considering that Luke did "rescue' Vader, we know it was lies. We later see Luke burning vader's body in the standard "jedi death" burial.
So what was it talking about? Oh, right, Vader had still not forgiven himself...and he still thought of himself as Vader. 🙂
You see him saying that he's going to die even if he didn't take off the mask as supporting that he wouldn't have died if he hadn't of taken it off? Well I give you points for unpredictability at least. 😛
What was lies? And according to Wookiepedia that was just his armor and robotic parts. His body probably disappeared like Obi-wan or something.
dunno what yur talkin bout
Originally posted by Nephthys
You see him saying that he's going to die even if he didn't take off the mask as supporting that he wouldn't have died if he hadn't of taken it off? Well I give you points for unpredictability at least. 😛
No, this:
"Some fans say that Vader was Vader until his mask was removed by Luke. It was at the moment he decided to give up his life to see his boy for the first time (a selfless act only done in love for his son because it would kill him to remove his mask) that he became Anakin. Killing someone is not really being "good". It is giving up your life out of love that is seen as "good" so in that regard, no, Vader did not become Anakin until he had Luke remove his mask.
Though that entire dialogue is suspect since his suit was fried, the death star was about to blow, and he was going to die unless he got off the ship and got his suit repaired.
I call CIS, though: Luke could have just force TK pulled Vader off of the ship with ease. His TK had developed enough by RotJ that he could have easily accomplished that task. It was just simple CIS. However, Vader did not want to leave or be redeemed (because he was still Vader and did not forgive himself yet)."
I'd say that's all very predictable and "follows". 🙂
Originally posted by Nephthys
What was lies? And according to Wookiepedia that was just his armor and robotic parts. His body probably disappeared like Obi-wan or something.dunno what yur talkin bout
You mean just like Qui Gon's body disappeared? awesome
Burning the body was the "Jedi Ritual". Disappearing bodies is not the norm. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
I see this is a false dilema:Vader and Anakin are the same exact person.
Anakin was never diagnosed with Dissociative identity disorder. In fact, we know exaclty what went down: it was just his Sith title.
Nah. Or did you forget what Obi-Wan said?
Actually digging the edits. :3
Regardless, they are not the same person...from a certain point of view.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nah. Or did you forget what Obi-Wan said?Actually digging the edits. :3
Regardless, they are not the same person...from a certain point of view.
Yes, the point of view that Obi Wan is a flat out liar.
THAT or George Locas originally planned for them to be two different people. 😄
Eduit - Man, that edit was kickasss! So awesome. I almost teared up. 🙁
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What he told Luke was the truth. 😮
But it wasn't: he told Luke that Vader killed his father.
In both context (after the reveal) and literal, it was a lie.
Luke calls him on it, passive agressively by saying he still felt the good in Vader...in other words, Obi Wan not only lied, but he was wrong: Vader didn't kill Anakin.
Anakin is an idea, but they are all the same person. It's a title: keep that in mind.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Quickly I'll point out that the ROTS novelisation does make Vader what appears to the a split personality. Also theres alot of evidence in th EU that the darkside functions much like a form of madness. It completely changes your personality and corrupts your mind.
GTFO WITH THAT NONCANNNNNNNNNOOONONODNFOSDNFON CRAP!
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Again, Obi-Wan>anyone. What he said was the truth, again from a certain point of view. The film makes this very clear. 😮
Yet, it wasn't true even from a certain point of view, as Luke indirectly pointed out.
Thanks for playing.
You owe me $20, now. 🙂
Piffle.Anyone who claims I amended that statement is either 1) lying, or 2) deceived by liars. Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.
Period.
Matthew Stover (He wrote the ROTS novel): http://boards.theforce.net/authors_artists/b10347/5816889/p114
I keep the quote in my profile for just such an occasion. 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
Matthew Stover (He wrote the ROTS novel): http://boards.theforce.net/authors_artists/b10347/5816889/p114I keep the quote in my profile for just such an occasion. 😉
Just as I thought: you have nothing.
It was a nice try.
Yes, I'm serious.
In fact, I think what you're trying to do is so dishonest that I should report you to Ush for trolling. I know Ush would agree with me here.