The Official BLEACH series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Eh, maybe. Then again, Ichigo is out of practice.

And it's Kubo, not Kishi. uhuh

No he's not: he fought with Ginjo for ages in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (lulz).

And I have no idea what you're talking about?

How long was he in there actually? And nah, most of the time was spent doing push ups, iirc. Ginjo being a douchebag didn't seem to take up that much time.

Bastard!!! XO

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
How long was he in there actually? And nah, most of the time was spent doing push ups, iirc. Ginjo being a douchebag didn't seem to take up that much time.

Bastard!!! XO

Well, we know Ichigo didn't forget jack because of his fight with Dirty Boots: he was like, "I has experience level over 9000!1!1!!1 DERP!"

I have 57 more sneak edits left before I can redeem myself from the pwnage you delivered yesterday! weep

You know, for a supposed million (or however many actual thousand) years of tradition, they're actually really *easily* influenced.

It's not like Ichigo came and talked with most of them or got to know them. Rather, he just showed up to kick butt and rescue one person. That's all. No-one's done something like that before, either externally or internally?

Originally posted by Q99
You know, for a supposed million (or however many actual thousand) years of tradition, they're actually really *easily* influenced.

It's not like Ichigo came and talked with most of them or got to know them. Rather, he just showed up to kick butt and rescue one person. That's all. No-one's done something like that before, either externally or internally?

Originally posted by Q99
You know, for a supposed million (or however many actual thousand) years of tradition, they're actually really *easily* influenced.

It's not like Ichigo came and talked with most of them or got to know them. Rather, he just showed up to kick butt and rescue one person. That's all. No-one's done something like that before, either externally or internally?

Someone strong enough to save all creation (Earth, SS, Hueco Mundo) that comes external to the protectors of it all: Ichigo.

Obviously, someone of that type is going to influence a society of human-based creatures. SS strikes me as being much more "static" than human governments and organizations. Strict, unmoving, stationary, bla bla bla.

So when someone comes along, even if it was a million years of tradition in SS, and is powerful enough to surpass all of SS, then obviously that person will have some sort of influence ESPECIALLY if he saved all of the known creation. That should be enough to give anyone pause in SS.

good point. while Ichigo did have a hell of a time doing it when he came to SS, he still did what he had set out to do at the time and save Rukia and now he is left to fight (pwn now, I guess) Ginjo with SS now fully believing in him and all.

I'm just wondering if someone can clear this up for me but if SS was planning on killing an ex. substitute shinigami with another substitue shinigami, wouldn't they have to plan to make someone a shinigami to begin with....thus making the series start completely illogical?

Also this chapter sucked to me. And the people from SS are major assholes:

"Oh well Ichigo has his powers now...guess we can go home? You say he's still fighting someone and there's this other fullbring that hasn't been dealt with? Not our problem!!" 😎

I kind of feel bad for Ichigo concerning this.

So Kubo forgot what he wrote just a few weeks ago. No joke.

From this, I believe that it is not ridiculous to conclude that Ichigo's hollow is still accessible, or at least intact and that Ginjou was either lying, mistaken, or misunderstood when he used the past tense.

(Basing an argument on a single line in a translated serial is probably not your best tactic, dude.)

Originally posted by Zampanó
I think you are having unwarranted value rigidity about this lost hollow powers thing. What we know for sure:
1. Ichigo lost his spiritual pressure.
(Making him unable to access his abilities)
(Making him unable to see/sense other Soul Reapers)

Sort of. That's not really what happened, though.

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57918-17/bleach/chapter-423.html

It is the loss of his Shinigami powers (and I will later show that it was all of his powers, in general).

Not directly the loss of his spiritual pressure: that is a consequence of losing his Shinigami powers. You're using an "effect" to state a cause.

Ichigo lost all Rieryoku and the ability to use it.

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57918-18/bleach/chapter-423.html

Spiritual power = rieryoku

To further support that, we just need to read, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57474-16/bleach/chapter-420.html

Additionally, Final GT is a combination of Shinigami and Hollow powers from Zangetsu:

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57474-8/bleach/chapter-420.html

As we can see here, the powers are both the final form of Zangetsu, Ichigo's hollow form, and Ichigo's level two hollow form.

That's the power he mastered to get his Final Getsuga Tenshou.

We know that he had to master the hollow side of his powers to get the final Getsuga because his hollow form says so, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/94-55199-6/bleach/chapter-411.html

So it is not just his Shinigami powers that "disappeared": his hollow powers disappeared, too.

Thus, Ginjo was correct and it doesn't take an expert at all to figure that out. Since Ginjo is obviously one of the most informed on this "restoring powers" process, he's hardly NOT an expert.

But wait, we do not need to rely on Ginjo to be an expert because Ichigo's sword-spirit actually tells him:

http://www.mangareader.net/94-55199-13/bleach/chapter-411.html

Originally posted by Zampanó
2. Ginjou used the past tense to refer to Ichigo's abilities
(Ginjou was operating with a less-than-complete understanding of the situation)
(That his ignorance applied primarily to his own motives does not mean that all of his other statements are unquestionably accurate)

Ginjo had more than enough information. He is also an expert in this area. It was only his ties with Tsukishima that were severed: not the entirety of his knowledge.

Since I've pointed out why Ginjo is correct in his statement, calling into question his expertise is not needed.

Originally posted by Zampanó
3. Ichigo recovered his abilities by way of Fullbringer training
(Fullbringer powers are Hollow derivatives).

Ichigo recovered his powers from the stored power in his badge.

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/452/8

But when Ichigo recovers some of his powers via fullbring, they aren't quite thes same:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/447/12

Also, here it tells us that the parents were attacked before they were born, by hollow.

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/13

Thus proving that I was correct when I said "Kubo forgot what he wrote a few weeks back". (That is the actual context of the portion of my post you quoted. Yes, everything you typed up was irrelevant to what you quoted from me. Talk about tangential, man. lol)

Ichigo's mom was attacked when Ichigo was ...what...5? Thus Kubo wrote himself into a plot hole. Kubo can always write in "Ichigo's mom was attacked TWICE! MWHAHAHA! Once before Ichigo was born and once after! RAWR!"

Originally posted by Zampanó
From this, I believe that it is not ridiculous to conclude that Ichigo's hollow is still accessible, or at least intact and that Ginjou was either lying, mistaken, or misunderstood when he used the past tense.

(Basing an argument on a single line in a translated serial is probably not your best tactic, dude.)

Actually, my post was not based on a single line from Ginjo, as you can plainly see. It was just one final nail in the coffin for Ichigo's hollow powers. Something quite direct and definitive for the reader. At this point, yes, it is quite ridiculous to assume Ichigo still has his hollow powers since he used them up.

Especially since we already know about the residual hollow powers thing:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/13

Ichigo once had hollow powers as seen here:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/14

Ichigo can get his hollow powers back WITH his shinigami powers if they gave him their fullbring powers because they are hollow based:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/19

However, that never happens. In fact, Ichigo had his fullbring powers ripped from his body:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/458/18

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/459/7

We know that power is gone:
http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/459/10

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/460/10

But we know that it was just his fullbring that was taken from him.

Ichigo gets his Shinigami powers back because the captains and co each donated their powers to Ichigo via that special sowrd Urahara made:
http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/460/9

Read closely at this:

"The first time you suceeded in transferring your shinigami powers to him only because Kurosaki had them inside him."

Anyway, yeah...they put their rieryoku into the sword:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/460/12

Thus, Ichigo no longer has hollow powers: he doesn't have his fullbring as that was ripped from him by Ginjo. So any hope anyone had for Ichigo getting his hollow powers back has been destroyed. You can only count on Kubo's ability to write in PIS to give Ichigo his hollow powers back, at this point.

I would also like to point out that Kubo had not yet decided upon the story by chapter 442:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/442/22

Why would Tsukishima have to wonder what Ginjo would say when they were both in on it together? Why wonder about what the "memory manipulated" Ginjo would say, at all, if we are to take that approach?

Also, it should have been obvious that Ichigo would have NEVER been turned by Ginjo's words:

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/461/12

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/461/13

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/461/15

So there we have it: Ichigo already stated he knew something fishy was up with the Badge but since even the Strict Captain Commander wanted to give their powers to Ichigo, it should have been obvious from the beginning the Ichigo would not be swayed by a minor trust issue from SS. The "change" portion of the plot was already written. So we should commend Kubo for writing something that actually was planned out several chapters ahead.

Maybe we just shouldn't trust the statements made by fallible third party characters.

What is this argument about now?

The tl;dr is astounding.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Maybe we just shouldn't trust the statements made by fallible third party characters.

I'll stick with the statements made by expert first party characters (like I did).

Originally posted by NemeBro
What is this argument about now?

The tl;dr is astounding.

There is no argument. He took my post out of context.

Basically, Ichigo lost his hollow powers. Any hope of getting them back was lost when Ginjo rip Ichigo's Fullbring powers away. Additionally, Ichigo is now powered by only shinigami powers via the thing Urahara made. So he has only Shinigami powers, at this point, ad there is no hope for Ichigo's hollow to come back other than PIS.

So in other words, since only PIS can give Ichigo Hollow powers, Ichigo will definitely be getting them back?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So in other words, since only PIS can give Ichigo Hollow powers, Ichigo will definitely be getting them back?

lolololololol

Originally posted by NemeBro
So in other words, since only PIS can give Ichigo Hollow powers, Ichigo will definitely be getting them back?

Honestly, that's what I got out of this exchange.

(Good post. It's way too late for me to have understood it, but maybe with some sleep it will become illuminated.)

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'll stick with the statements made by expert first party characters (like I did).

Hey, Blax is back to an older sig. Neat.

This one's one of my favorites, even though it's just a render.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
They're not expert first party characters though.

Well, yeah, actually, Ginjo is. Probably only Urahara would be more of an expert than Ginjo in the power transfer thing. Aizen never dabbled in that.