The Official BLEACH series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
Maybe she knows something we don't?

OR
Maybe we know something she doesn't.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Maybe right after Ichigo was cut and nearly dieded, he busted out his shikai.

OR
Maybe Unohana was never present at this point, so she couldn't know about this. Maybe Uryu and the others were at the bottom of the hill at this point so they possibly couldn't have seen Kyoka Suigetsu's release.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, maybe they are a non-factor as none of Ichigo's friends are strong enough to fight Aizen.

Maybe her criteria was my two points.

Being strong enough to fight with Aizen AND not having seen his Shikai.

OR
Maybe Ichigo himself isn't strong enough to fight Aizen with his Shinigami powers. Even without his shikai, Aizen isn't a push-over, certainly not one a mere captain class opponent (even if Ichigo isn't just a mere captain class opponent) can handle.

Unohana couldn't know of Ichigo's hollow form, not the one that appeared against Ulquiorra.

Unohana also states that if he lost that advantage (Shikai), the war would be lost. It has more to do with the fact that he hasn't seen the Shikai, than it does with power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, I think you're over-estimating the Quincy's final form. He can't pull in the "spirit particles" fast enough to stop such violent explosions as seen by that hallow form that fought 2nd form Ulq. Also, wouldn't his storage thingie run out of space against someone as monstrous as Kenpachi? Kenpachi has so much that it leaks out and half is captured by his patch...or something. Kenpachi could just pull a Revenge of Cooler type of scenario where the 2 super saiyans overloaded his energy capacity. His little quincy bow thingie wouuld have to have a finite limit or else it would create a black hole.

Think of it this way: Susanoo does not have infiinite protection. There is a limit. We saw a rib crack on a form that wasn't fully complete. We can't say that susanoo can withstand an infinite amount of blunt force, as that would be incorrect. Same with the Quincy's storage of spirit energy: it will have a limit. If he didn't use his energy, he'd eventually explode.

Violent Explosions? It's possible I'm missing something here, it's 2:30 am here after all.

Reishi and Reiryoku are two different things. One is akin to matter, while the other is akin to energy. They are two fundamentally different concepts. Matter may be derived from energy and vice versa, but they are different. I may be thin, but still have a lot of stamina/energy, or consequently, I could be fat, and have very little energy to spare. But I'm not here to discuss Physics with you, my point is that they are different (Reishi and Reiryoku)

Quincies mainly absorb Reishi to fuel their weapons. Kenpachi's reiryoku reserve may be incredible, but that doesn't mean that his particle composition is. If he could somehow convert his Reiryoku into Reishi, then sure, otherwise, no.

Yes, he does have a limit but he isn't a dumb brute. He will not stand idly while absorbing Reishi, he'll be firing it some of it out. Seeing as he could convert the absorbed Reishi into solid arrows, I'm guessing that he could convert it into any sort of weapon, though he naturally prefers arrows. It'd also be easy for him to disperse excess Reishi into the air.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Humbug. Johnny Yung Bosch cannot be beat. Especially as Hichigo.
YouTube video

Though my personal favorite English VA is Tony Oliver as Ulquiorra.
YouTube video

Nah, bro. Both of them are sucky voice actors. Its actually B-level, man.

And, Tony Oliver puts waaaaay too much sass into Ulq's voice. He needs to talk more like a Vulcan than a sassy homosexual.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
OR
Maybe we know something she doesn't.

😆

True.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
OR
Maybe Unohana was never present at this point, so she couldn't know about this. Maybe Uryu and the others were at the bottom of the hill at this point so they possibly couldn't have seen Kyoka Suigetsu's release.

She was. She was right there on top O' da mountain with everyone else from Ichigo's group. I watched the scene again, Ichigo doesn't pass out and Aizen reveal his bankai. So, my theory is shit.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
OR
Maybe Ichigo himself isn't strong enough to fight Aizen with his Shinigami powers.

I stated that already, earlier.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Even without his shikai, Aizen isn't a push-over, certainly not one a mere captain class opponent (even if Ichigo isn't just a mere captain class opponent) can handle.

I agree.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Unohana couldn't know of Ichigo's hollow form, not the one that appeared against Ulquiorra.

She does know. The spirit pressure was unequaled in power in all of the series. From how the Quincy described Ulq's, it was so far beyond normal spiritual pressure as to be almost something else entirely. Ichigo eclipsed Ulq, by far.

That type of power most certainly could be felt. The captains could "feel" spirit pressure from all the way across seireitei.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Unohana also states that if he lost that advantage (Shikai), the war would be lost. It has more to do with the fact that he hasn't seen the Shikai, than it does with power.

Maybe. But I think it has more to do with both. If Ichigo was a weakling, it wouldn't really matter if he hadn't seen it yet or not.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Reishi and Reiryoku are two different things. One is akin to matter, while the other is akin to energy. They are two fundamentally different concepts. Matter may be derived from energy and vice versa, but they are different. I may be thin, but still have a lot of stamina/energy, or consequently, I could be fat, and have very little energy to spare. But I'm not here to discuss Physics with you, my point is that they are different (Reishi and Reiryoku)

No one is disputing that. The reishi is converted into reiryoku for use by the quincies. In this case, this spiritual matter is converted into spiritual energy.

Also, I understand what you meant by violent explosions, earlier. Both Ichigo and Ulq made HUGE explosions. They "expanded" very quickly...which is why I called them violent. They were very destructive almost vaporizing everything they touched. They were on scale with smallish nuclear weapons...but much more energetic. What I was getting at: you mentioned the Quincy being able to stand up to some of the heavy hitters in his final form because he can absorb so much. Do his quincy powers/device ONLY absorb spiritrons? If they do, then the Quincy is screwed. If his equipment also absorbs rieryoku as well, then my post about him getting overloaded by the violent explosions from Ulq or Hallow form 2 Ichigo holds true. He wouldn't be able to absorb it fast enough. Not even close.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Quincies mainly absorb Reishi to fuel their weapons. Kenpachi's reiryoku reserve may be incredible, but that doesn't mean that his particle composition is. If he could somehow convert his Reiryoku into Reishi, then sure, otherwise, no.

I thought their weapons also absorbed rieryoku. I'm probably wrong. It doesn't matter, though. If it only absorbs rieryoku, he gets pwned anyway as he doesn't absorb that stuff fast enough.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, he does have a limit but he isn't a dumb brute. He will not stand idly while absorbing Reishi, he'll be firing it some of it out. Seeing as he could convert the absorbed Reishi into solid arrows, I'm guessing that he could convert it into any sort of weapon, though he naturally prefers arrows. It'd also be easy for him to disperse excess Reishi into the air.

Maybe. But, if what you said about his weapon only absorbing spiritrons, then, it doesn't matter. All my points were based on his weapon absorbing both spiritual particles and rieryoku. The Quincy gets pwned by people like Kenpachi and Kuchiki.

Quincy Final Form has never actually absorbed a Shinigami, or any living (Kinda) thing. Why would we assume it can?

They aren't saying Ishida can absorb a person.

It's hard for me to enter this discussion, since Im an Uryu fanboy and all that. Still, I can add my two cents. Saying that Ishida would get "pwned" (to use the old man's vernacular) by certain shinigami in his final form isn't a proper assessment.

In the Soul Society Arc, I think we can agree that Ishida was not at a captain level of power. He was fast as shit, and his abilities were impressive, but actually defeating a captain like Kenpachi, it wasn't exactly in the running.

In his Final Form, Ishida's power was so amped, he could one-shot a bankai. With just a common arrow. A basic, pull back the bowstring - arrow. We haven't seen any of the Final Form's full capabilities. And saying that we did, or saying that we can guess them, is just not true.

If he was capable of transforming into his Final Form at his current level, he would be utter beastliness. His rate of fire has expanded to what like, 1,400 arrows at a time? I think that was what he said back during his 2-on-2 battle with Sado against those arrancar. He is also much stronger than he was during the S.S Arc, and shooting that many bankai-slaying arrows would be ****ing awesome to see.

As for the argument whether or not his spirit draining capabilites would be a factor in this hypothetical situation, they probably would be. Mostly in thanks to his Seele Schneider.

In his fight with Cirucci Thunderwitch, Seele Schneider was capable of breaking down her own Zanpakuto or whatever the arrancar call their swords/releases with his Seele Schneider. It shred her weapons into particles.

Could this work against a shinigami's own weapon? It is highly possible.

As for Dadudemon's strange assessment that Ishida would "blow up" if he absorbed to much energy, that is rather ridiculous logic to match it to Cooler's death by over-absorption.

Cooler was killed by over absorbing the energy of Vegeta and Goku - but there was a fundamental difference between Cooler's absorbing, and Ishida's Final Form absorbing.

Whereas Cooler drained the energy of the two saiyans directly into his own body, to enhance his own strength and power, the energy that Uryu pulled manifested itself into Uryu's fancy Quiver/Wing.

A Quincy does not fight with the energy inside of him - he fights with the energy outside. If you watch, when Final Form Uryu summons his bow, the intense spirit energy manifests in front of his fingers. He doesn't summon it from inside of his own body/energy reserves.

Originally posted by dadudemon
😆

True.

😄,
given that we are the reader, there's a higher chance that we know more than her.
Though what you said is a possibility.

Originally posted by dadudemon
She was. She was right there on top O' da mountain with everyone else from Ichigo's group. I watched the scene again, Ichigo doesn't pass out and Aizen reveal his bankai. So, my theory is shit.

(Damn, was hoping we could continue with the maybe's mmm)

She arrived after Aizen left, or rather, she arrived at Soukyoku hill when Ichigo was rescuing Rukia. She then left to look at Aizen's corpse, and he then talks about the illusion, Tousen, etc. She then gets Isane to use Tenteikuura (Broadcast) to warn everyone about Aizen. Unohana then tends to everyone that was injured. Aizen then leaves. Unohana arrives at the hill. That's how I remember it.

Ichigo's friends definitely arrived after Aizen left. I remember seeing Aizen's ascension, and Uryu and the gang watching it from below the mountain.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I stated that already, earlier.

I was trying to be kind 🤨. I was actually trying to help remind you about that, you being a busy man with a lot of stuff going on; such a person tends to forget stuff here and there 😛.

Originally posted by dadudemon
She does know. The spirit pressure was unequaled in power in all of the series. From how the Quincy described Ulq's, it was so far beyond normal spiritual pressure as to be almost something else entirely. Ichigo eclipsed Ulq, by far.

That type of power most certainly could be felt. The captains could "feel" spirit pressure from all the way across seireitei.

Fair enough. Though does she know that it specifically belonged to Ichigo?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Maybe. But I think it has more to do with both. If Ichigo was a weakling, it wouldn't really matter if he hadn't seen it yet or not.

She does go on to say that if Ichigo lost his advantage, the war would be over. It's hard to lose your 'level' of Reiryoku, so I assume she's mostly referring to Aizen's shikai. I'm not saying that power isn't a factor here, what I am saying is that having not seen Aizen's shikai seems to be the bigger factor here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No one is disputing that. The reishi is converted into reiryoku for use by the quincies. In this case, this spiritual matter is converted into spiritual energy.

Also, I understand what you meant by violent explosions, earlier. Both Ichigo and Ulq made HUGE explosions. They "expanded" very quickly...which is why I called them violent. They were very destructive almost vaporizing everything they touched. They were on scale with smallish nuclear weapons...but much more energetic. What I was getting at: you mentioned the Quincy being able to stand up to some of the heavy hitters in his final form because he can absorb so much. Do his quincy powers/device ONLY absorb spiritrons? If they do, then the Quincy is screwed. If his equipment also absorbs rieryoku as well, then my post about him getting overloaded by the violent explosions from Ulq or Hallow form 2 Ichigo holds true. He wouldn't be able to absorb it fast enough. Not even close.

Ahh, I understand.
He absorbs both Reishi and Reiryoku, but he seems to prefer the former. Seeing as he can basically control what he absorbs, I'm guessing it'd be the same in FF. But that very absorption ability isn't just a simple collection anymore. He basically holds dominance over them. Mayuri may be exaggerating, but given his intelligence, I doubt he is. Either way, Uryu was deconstructing buildings at an alarming rate. He could do the same to the fighters themselves.

He could try to absorb attacks sure, but I agree on the explosions point. They would not be absorbed fast enough to avoid. They'd still take place.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought their weapons also absorbed rieryoku. I'm probably wrong. It doesn't matter, though. If it only absorbs rieryoku, he gets pwned anyway as he doesn't absorb that stuff fast enough.

He's selective about it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Maybe. But, if what you said about his weapon only absorbing spiritrons, then, it doesn't matter. All my points were based on his weapon absorbing both spiritual particles and rieryoku. The Quincy gets pwned by people like Kenpachi and Kuchiki.

I said mainly Spiritrons. Again, his weapon isn't the only place he stores energy, for all we know, he could store some in a platform under him to make a really huge ass platform, or he could store them in wings, in Silver Tubes (though taking time to do so would be unorthodox).

It still hearkens back to the main question, what is to stop him from trying to absorb the particles of the opponent? He pwns people like Kenpachi like that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Quincy Final Form has never actually absorbed a Shinigami, or any living (Kinda) thing. Why would we assume it can?

Let's say I have the power to manipulate chocolate. If there were people that were made of chocolate (yeah, I got this from that AXE commercial), what stops me from being able to manipulate the chocolate that makes up that person?

Uryu's personality may stop him from doing so, but unless Shinigami and such are composed of something different, it isn't far-fetched to assume he can deconstruct them while in FF mode.

demon read my post you anus

I was talking about him "absorbing" (deconstructing and then storing) spirit particles, which shinigami are made up of.
Besides, I don't think he really needs the Seele Schneider to weaken the bonds between particles while he is in Final Form. He usually collects Reishi from the air, but while he was in Final Form, he was collecting Reishi from solid objects.

I have no doubt that the magnitude of the FF amp was beyond the the magnitude of the amp that most Bankai provide.

~ I may be over-estimating one of Final Form's perks as dadudemon said, and I may be an Uryu fanboy, but I fully intend to discuss this.

Nah, bro. Both of them are sucky voice actors. Its actually B-level, man.

That's just your opinion. I know plenty of people who quite like Kukaku's and Ulq's English voices. I
I personally prefer Hichigo in English to Japanese as the Japanese voice just annoys me.

And, Tony Oliver puts waaaaay too much sass into Ulq's voice. He needs to talk more like a Vulcan than a sassy homosexual.

Um...that's not sass. At all. It's condescension. He's not being impudent or unnecessarily argumentative. He's simply abusing Orihime's kind nature.
And saying it was homosexual is just completely unwarranted. He sounds nothing like a gay person.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Let's say I have the power to manipulate chocolate. If there were people that were made of chocolate (yeah, I got this from that AXE commercial), what stops me from being able to manipulate the chocolate that makes up that person?

Uryu's personality may stop him from doing so, but unless Shinigami and such are composed of something different, it isn't far-fetched to assume he can deconstruct them while in FF mode.

I am not outruling it, it is certainly possible, but should not be claimed as fact until proven so.

Uryu Ishida can not absorb shinigami.

That is retarded

Originally posted by Luminatus
That's just your opinion. I know plenty of people who quite like Kukaku's and Ulq's English voices. I
I personally prefer Hichigo in English to Japanese as the Japanese voice just annoys me.

Um...that's not sass. At all. It's condescension. He's not being impudent or unnecessarily argumentative. He's simply abusing Orihime's kind nature.
And saying it was homosexual is just completely unwarranted. He sounds nothing like a gay person.

no because if that was the case his Mayuri should have been absorbed or at least his zanpaktou whcih is made out of a shit load of reishi.

Ya know Stark looks pretty cool.
YouTube video

Shame it's gonna be a while till we can see what he can do in the dub.

Anyone else whatching the Zanpactou filler arc?

Kenny can use GT now 😂

Originally posted by NemeBro
No we should not, because in a fictional setting, being able to do something to something inanimate often fails against something living, matter manipulation and low-scale reality warping are the powers often prone to this.

I am not outruling it, it is certainly possible, but should not be claimed as fact until proven so.

I'm not entirely claiming it as fact either; I may have slipped up here and there and looked like I thought it was a fact, but I assure you, I don't. It's like you said, it's possible.
Besides, unless PIS gets involved, if you can somehow manipulate the particles of something inanimate, chances are you can manipulate those particles even if they form 'living' things. The only real thing stopping someone from doing so is their personality and their moral code.

Also, a key word here in your post would be 'often.'

Originally posted by Quincy
Uryu Ishida can not absorb shinigami.

That is retarded

Fairy'nuff. He can deconstruct them? Deconstructing was what I implied in the first place anyway (read: tear apart)...damn dadudemon started making me use 'absorb'.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Anyone else whatching the Zanpactou filler arc?

Kenny can use GT now 😂

To be fair, he was always able to cut objects from range with his sword.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Anyone else whatching the Zanpactou filler arc?

Kenny can use GT now 😂

I always knew Kenpachi had a secret power mmm...attack mimicry.

~ Was it the actual GT? Black and everything?

Getsuga Tensho is not inherently black, it is only black when Ichigo is using his Bankai.