Feminism has gone too far.

Started by Line8 pages

Originally posted by obiwills

As for the chess debate, chess is a war game, war is something men are better at, not because they're more intelligent, but because they have a better mind for strategizing. Down through the centuries war has always been a man thing, not that there are no women who are good at it, just that women were usually at home taking care of the children and the old people, because if all of the women had gone to war as well as the men, you'd have infants and invalids left back home who'd all die from starvation.

Plus men have a mind for war, it's something that has been taught for generations. There have been some truly excellent female warriors such as the Amazon's but when it comes down to all the great battles in history 99 percent of them were masterminded by men. Men fight, women love. It is probably that compassion which keeps women out of war. It is easier for a man to kill another human being in the name of war than it is for a woman. Women have too much compassion, they might stop and question why, and while they're questioning it, get stabbed in the back by their opponent whom they were debating not killing.

Personally I think people just need to accept equality and move on, it is the older generations who are keeping this battle alive, not the younger.

This dead horse has been beat to the most rediculous extent, if men and women can't even get along, how can different races get along? How can different religions co-exist? If we are to achieve peace in this world we must learn to accept those around us and get over whatever issues we have with things. Women have achieved equality, they have the right to vote, right to work on any job, and the right to compete in any sport, even if it is in their own league. America no longer needs feminists, equality has been achieved, as it has in many countries in Europe, it's time to drop it and move on. Sure people are going to discriminate against women sometimes because they are prejudice, but they're the last of a dying breed, go back a generation or two from yourself and you'll be surprised how closed-minded the people who came before you really were. And one day your kids and grandkids will look at you and think of you as closed-minded. Step into the future. There's no longer a need for this debate, and feminists need to drop it. It is not essential to anyone's equality that some woman go out on a football field and get splattered all over the grass when she gets hit by some 350 pound quarterback. This is beyond rediculous, it's time feminists move to a country where they're needed and work there to get women the right to vote and the right to work. When the debate turns to sports it has reached the edge of sensibility.

It's simply rediculous to me that debates like this even happen. It's time for feminists to stop before they give a new generation of men a reason to hate women.

men fight, women love? women are too compassionate to go to war? I honestly doubt it, yet it's a die hard, sentimental idea, thrown in our faces again and again. yes, in the early wars men went to war and women stayed at home, looking after house and children, course they weren't physically as strong as the male enemies they'd meet on the battlefield, and because the norms of patriarchal society dictates that women love and men fight, and that women are naturally too compassionate to kill ( this of course only lasted till all the young male soldiers had died, then women were allowed to join in too - they were even expected to defy they're so called natural urge to avoid killing! whoa!)
what I'm hinting at here is that the overly compassionate nature of women, and the overly aggressive nature of men, isn't dictated by nature alone, but enforced by society. women do know how to kill, should they have to, and men do know how to be compassionate.

it isn't the older generation alone that keeps this 'battle' going, look at this thread! look at other threads than this, if you like, even go outside KMC and you'll still find young people of both sexes who think that the differences between the sexes are to the men's advantage. it's not something time alone will heal and make go away, it's socially conditioned, which is why I cannot believe all those people, you included, who are in such a hurry to dismiss feminists. you don't need them in America, you say? why, you've only just elected a president bend and determined to work against legal abortion. I'm also quite certain that you, just as any other country, have problems concerning lack of women in top positions, women earning less than men, women being beaten and raped by partners, etc. etc.
now, so much for the political part of feminism. apart from that, there's the theoretical part, concerning language, media, art and the like. sure, some female theorists I have a hard time agreeing with ( such as: men took over power because they stand up peeing! yeah, that's what happened! women were crawling around in the bushes and when we'd finally finished, the other team had made computers and raised tall, phallic buildings, leaving us nothing but kitchens!), but yet others study the way language affects us and our ideas about gender, as well as our perception of art, other medias, etc. etc. if the all buggered off to other countries, we'd loose out on that department.
all in all, what I'm getting at is basically this: I'm sick and tired of the image of the feminist as being the unshaved, bra-less man hater, who flashes the tattoos on her overly muscular arms and yells sexual insults after frightened men on the street. feminism is more than that and it's not about hating men.
I agree with you that some discussions do more damage than good, when it comes to the inter-gender peace, but I strongly disagree on the part where you give the feminists the entire blame. they don't always lead the way into ridiculous discussions, so do men. and they alone do not promote hating, so do men. either way, this again only proves that discussing gender and the relation between the two sexes are still much needed.

Originally posted by Line
men fight, women love? women are too compassionate to go to war? I honestly doubt it, yet it's a die hard, sentimental idea, thrown in our faces again and again. yes, in the early wars men went to war and women stayed at home, looking after house and children, course they weren't physically as strong as the male enemies they'd meet on the battlefield, and because the norms of patriarchal society dictates that women love and men fight, and that women are naturally too compassionate to kill ( this of course only lasted till all the young male soldiers had died, then women were allowed to join in too - they were even expected to defy they're so called natural urge to avoid killing! whoa!)
what I'm hinting at here is that the overly compassionate nature of women, and the overly aggressive nature of men, isn't dictated by nature alone, but enforced by society. women do know how to kill, should they have to, and men do know how to be compassionate.

it isn't the older generation alone that keeps this 'battle' going, look at this thread! look at other threads than this, if you like, even go outside KMC and you'll still find young people of both sexes who think that the differences between the sexes are to the men's advantage. it's not something time alone will heal and make go away, it's socially conditioned, which is why I cannot believe all those people, you included, who are in such a hurry to dismiss feminists. you don't need them in America, you say? why, you've only just elected a president bend and determined to work against legal abortion. I'm also quite certain that you, just as any other country, have problems concerning lack of women in top positions, women earning less than men, women being beaten and raped by partners, etc. etc.
now, so much for the political part of feminism. apart from that, there's the theoretical part, concerning language, media, art and the like. sure, some female theorists I have a hard time agreeing with ( such as: men took over power because they stand up peeing! yeah, that's what happened! women were crawling around in the bushes and when we'd finally finished, the other team had made computers and raised tall, phallic buildings, leaving us nothing but kitchens!), but yet others study the way language affects us and our ideas about gender, as well as our perception of art, other medias, etc. etc. if the all buggered off to other countries, we'd loose out on that department.
all in all, what I'm getting at is basically this: I'm sick and tired of the image of the feminist as being the unshaved, bra-less man hater, who flashes the tattoos on her overly muscular arms and yells sexual insults after frightened men on the street. feminism is more than that and it's not about hating men.
I agree with you that some discussions do more damage than good, when it comes to the inter-gender peace, but I strongly disagree on the part where you give the feminists the entire blame. they don't always lead the way into ridiculous discussions, so do men. and they alone do not promote hating, so do men. either way, this again only proves that discussing gender and the relation between the two sexes are still much needed.

My main point was that debating women playing sports against men is a waste of feminist's time. If they're main focus is now getting women in football games then they clearly have got a problem. Yes you're right, there aren't enough women in higher positions of government, and it's true that women know how to kill, but most women given the choice will not go to war. Not because they're incapable, but because they don't want to. Personally I feel that there are far more important issues feminists should be focusing on. Abortion is not so much a feminist issue as a moral issue. Some feel that it is murder, and if in fact it is, then no one should have that right. This debate has gone far beyond feminism and really shouldn't be included as part of this discussion about sports.

Many women do feel that it is their right to have an abortion, so be it, it's legal, no one can stop them. But no woman who honestly feels it is murder will have an abortion, and she would feel that those who do are cruel, because no matter how you look at it it is destroying a human life, so it's not a feminist issue anymore. It's a moral issue.

Originally posted by obiwills
My main point was that debating women playing sports against men is a waste of feminist's time. If they're main focus is now getting women in football games then they clearly have got a problem.

Personally I feel that there are far more important issues feminists should be focusing on. .

YES!! ✅

This isn't like tennis. Football can get physical and bloody. There are so many things wrong with letting women play football with men. In terms of skill, I don't see a problem, although womens football is played differently. Potentially a woman footballer is as good, but only potentially, so far. In the real world, women are at a general disadvantage through a little thing known as DNA.

I was watching it the other day, and it was so wierd. Less aggressive and a much slower game. They wouldn't last five minutes in the big hitters of mens footy. It's just another "sisters doing it for themselves" thing to tick off on their never ending list.

There's also the fact that women ARE different to men. There are brick sized books written by so-called feminists detailing how different we are, yet they are the first to moan when either sex is treated slightly differently.

Footy can get really bloody sometimes. Broken limbs, noses, cheek bones. Imagine a male defender flooring a female striker, slamming her to the floor, well within the rules, but she lands funny, snaps her leg. I bet the feminists would be the first ones to moan about the rules (which are as safe as can be without reducing the game to crap). They're never happy.

The worst thing about feminists is that they tend to realise that half of the population of this planet are males, who simply don't agree with half of the crap they talk about. They get all high and mighty about equality without realising a scientific fact - women and men are different, and women cannot match men physically (in general).

Bringing in new laws about sports and women is like burying their head in the sand, it doesn't re-write the humans races DNA so that we are equal, we are different, and the sooner we embrace our differences productively, the sooner we'll become equal. Pretending to be equal by having a law that says "we are" is never a wise option.

Originally posted by obiwills
My main point was that debating women playing sports against men is a waste of feminist's time. If they're main focus is now getting women in football games then they clearly have got a problem. Yes you're right, there aren't enough women in higher positions of government, and it's true that women know how to kill, but most women given the choice will not go to war. Not because they're incapable, but because they don't want to. Personally I feel that there are far more important issues feminists should be focusing on. Abortion is not so much a feminist issue as a moral issue. Some feel that it is murder, and if in fact it is, then no one should have that right. This debate has gone far beyond feminism and really shouldn't be included as part of this discussion about sports.

Many women do feel that it is their right to have an abortion, so be it, it's legal, no one can stop them. But no woman who honestly feels it is murder will have an abortion, and she would feel that those who do are cruel, because no matter how you look at it it is destroying a human life, so it's not a feminist issue anymore. It's a moral issue.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a waste of time. if it truly was, it wouldn't spark off such a lively discussion as this. I don't really know exactly what to think of the issue myself, but so much the better that a discussion exists.

I'm not just saying in government, I'm saying all leader-type positions. same goes with the wages.

concerning the killing: that wasn't the impression I got from your last post, where you seemed to state that women would be too compassionate to make the quick killings needed in war. anyways, yes, I agree that most women choose not to go to war, which is very much fine by me, since I'm no fan of wars. still, this isn't only because they're female, it's because social norms still dictates that it's the men who are to go to war.

yes, abortion is a moral issue, yet I don't see why that should separate it from being a feminist issue too, since feminist issues are highly moral too. abortion has everything to do with female sexuality and women's welfare, so yes, I'll call it a feminist issue. that some women do not approve of abortion and wouldn't want one for themselves doesn't make it less so.

Why is this now about abortion? There's an abortion thread that's already been done to death and many people have pretty much nailed it shut.

This is about females wanting to play soccer.

Typical feminist tactic. Use the slightest chance to make eeeeeeverything about you.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, let's not go from women playing football to abortion. They do have one commonality though. They both are issues containing balls (one of leather, one of cells) that I'd love to kick around.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why is this now about abortion? There's an abortion thread that's already been done to death and many people have pretty much nailed it shut.

This is about females wanting to play soccer.

Typical feminist tactic. Use the slightest chance to make eeeeeeverything about you.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, let's not go from women playing football to abortion. They do have one commonality though. They both are issues containing balls (one of leather, one of cells) that I'd love to kick around.

-AC

I agree with you entirely. My bit about abortion was criticizing the person who brought it into this conversation in the first place. Belong here, it does not.

And neither do the bits about women in leader's positions in the government, this thread is about football, women playing football against men, period. Let's not turn it into something it isn't.

Obiwills:
my main post was an answer and critique of your post on page 4, where you discuss chess, war, intellect and feminism. my thing about abortion was minimized to one line, an example, which you stated was not to be discussed here, whereafter you discussed it thoroughly. in short: we're together in this off-topic discussion, so don't point your finger at me solely.

Ok, I'll admit I said more about it than I should have, but you did bring it up. Perhaps we can both agree merely to drop it and hope that no one else offers any opinions on the matter? The matter in question being simply abortion.

I brought it up as an example on how feminism was going in the US and never meant for it to be the main topic of discussion. not discussing it is therefore fine with me.

“If a woman can actually compete and play on the level of the men playing the sport, then go for it, she can play for all I care. Just so long as she doesn't start bitching if she gets tackled by a man who's bigger and stronger then her.

That said, women should get no special treatment or special rules, if they want to play with men then they need to be able to keep up and play properly with men, if they can't, then they should keep their ass in the womans league.”

My views exactly.
Women are, on average, not as physically strong as men, we have better stamina though. I think we’d be better off to stop thinking in terms of gender so much. Some guys will NEVER ever make it to a soccer-team, just as some girls never will. But those who have the skills – sure, why not?

As to whether or not feminism has gone too far: Yes and no. As long as some men hold the belief that because women don’t run all over football/soccer fields LIKE men or play chess or what have you, then women are INFERIOR as opposed to DIFFERENT then I guess we need feminism. It’s that old “I’m ok – you’re ok” slogan that I think we keep forgetting.
And as long as radical feminists keep insisting that men are abusers and women are abused victims of the “evil” men, then I’d rather be without feminism.
We f…..g need to stop looking at someone who is different, and immediately rate him/her on a vertical superior/inferior scale, and just on a horizontal different-scale.