The source + TOAA versus Phoenix force

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Thats GS's interpretation in his essay

BBut nowhere does it say God? and thats the point.........

We have had Entropy create the Universe
In the origin of Galactus one shot we saw him survive the death of his Universe and the new one created witout Phoenix.

Interpretation, poor continuity, assumption 🙂

But Entropy creating the universe isnt current continuity. Phoenix doing so is and has been for the last 3 years thats all that matters. As for the origin of Galactus if you refer to the 2005 F4 handbook you'll see Phoenix is responsible for his creation.

Thats really all that matters. 😉

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
And assumption, don't forget assumption.

Its all open to interpretation and I agree, GS seems to feel only one interpretation is possible like many fundamentalists.

How else can you interpret all of the information ive given you? Would you like to convey some alternatives?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But Entropy creating the universe isnt current continuity. Phoenix doing so is and has been for the last 3 years thats all that matters. As for the origin of Galactus if you refer to the 2005 F4 handbook you'll see Phoenix is responsible for his creation.

Thats really all that matters. 😉

No you have a continuity conflict -

Its one possible Continuity Galactus original creation of the universe did not have Phoenix doing it. Galactus's origin is still the same - ergo so is his universes 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Its one possible Continuity Galactus original creation of the universe did not have Phoenix doing it. Galactus's origin is still the same - ergo so is his universes 🙂

And we also know that there are multiple Galactuses. . . so the questions then are where is the 616 galactus and what is the one who survived the collapse of his universe called, and has the 616 galactus ever met the glactus from the dead universe?

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
No you have a continuity conflict -

Its one possible Continuity Galactus original creation of the universe did not have Phoenix doing it. Galactus's origin is still the same - ergo so is his universes 🙂

Whats gone on in the past is inconsequential. All that matters is what is current continuity. That is what we go by in debates here. So you're not disagreeing with what ive said and brought to the table you're just sayig that because theres been other creation origins that the phoenix case isnt 100% solid. 🙄 Thats lame Whirly 😆

Characters and origins are changed and developed through time. Its just what happens with comics. However what is current continuity is all that really matters.

Originally posted by Creshosk
But we know that the same characters from different universes can indeed meet.

And we also know that there are multiple Galactuses. . . so the questions then are where is the 616 galactus and what is the one who survived the collapse of his universe called, and has the 616 galactus ever met the glactus from the dead universe?

It is the 616 Galactus Cresh thats Galens origin.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
It is the 616 Galactus Cresh thats Galens origin.

But the 616 universe has never died. 😕

Then what happeend to the Galactus that originated in 616?

Or did the universes not get an equal distirbution of Galactuses. . . Galacti? Galactuss? Galactus?

Anyway, aside form the pluralization problem. . .

Cause I know of another Galactus that has a different personality from the Galactus we know.

The Earth 28909 Galactus. . .

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Characters and origins are changed and developed through time. Its just what happens with comics. However what is current continuity is all that really matters.

Its not proven GS one of your supporters

Originally posted by wannabe
I'm glad we agree! 🙂

Neither side has proven or unproven anything...most(not all) is speculation, interpretation and deduction...

Interestingly Galens origin remains the same in current continuity so you have a continuity problem 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Its not proven GS one of your supporters

Interestingly Galens origin remains the same in current continuity so you have a continuity problem 🙂

Galactus origin as per current continuity has been slightly altered from what it was. Instead of Eternity helping Galen survive the end of the universe Phoenix does and then helps him bond with Eternity. That is current continuity of the 616 universe. What was there before has been written over and no longer exists. You have no ground to stand on. You havent even read said handbook so top arguing for the sake of it 😱

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Thats GS's interpretation in his essay

But nowhere does it say God? and thats the point.........

We have had Entropy create the Universe
In the origin of Galactus one shot we saw him survive the death of his Universe and the new one created witout Phoenix.

Interpretation, poor continuity, assumption 🙂

And the interpretations and assumptions made are certainly more convincing and thought-through than your repetition of asking for an explicit mentioning of the word "god"...no offense meant, but thats how i look at it!!!

Originally posted by wannabe
The Phoenix as a bird is just an interpretation of Jean towards her connection with this creative force taken over by nearly all that know her...i thought, that was clear?!
Since Jean didn't existed during the last Big Bang, the force of creation was certainly not looking like a Phoenix(a fantastic creature out of HUMAN mythology)!

And the interpretations and assumptions made are certainly more convincing and thought-through than your repetition of asking for an explicit mentioning of the word "god"...no offense meant, but thats how i look at it!!!

The case against

Origin of 616 universe from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus

Originally named Galan (or Galen, the spelling differs on occasion), he hails from the planet Taa, and is the sole survivor of the Big Crunch of the previous universe in which Taa was located. A space explorer investigating the impending end of his universe, he approached the focal point of the Big Crunch and was transformed into a cosmic entity even as the universe collapsed. After the Big Bang of the current universe, to complete his transformation, Galactus was encased in a cosmic egg brimming with enormous energies. After billions of years, he emerged as an entity of vast cosmic power who was also necessary for the existence of the newly formed universe. Galactus is considered one of the five essential entities within the Marvel Universe alongside Eternity, the anthropomorphic personification of the universe, Death, Infinity and Oblivion.

😕

Wheres Phoenix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey

Endsong
Recently, the Shi'ar resurrected the Phoenix entity in hopes of destroying it while it was relatively weak. The entity managed to escape and fled to Earth, where it needed a host to sustain itself. After possessing a firefly and running into Wolverine, the entity resurrected Jean and bonded with her once more.

Jean Grey. Art by Greg Land.Jean realized that the Phoenix was resurrected too early and as a result was mentally unbalanced. She had a confrontation with the X-Men before teleporting Wolverine to the North Pole, where she had him stab her several times, leaving the Phoenix enity weakened and allowing her to once again gain control. Jean then plunged herself through the ice, freezing instantly. When the X-Men arrived, Wolverine told them that Jean was "dead. Or as close as she can get."

When the Phoenix entity returned from the ice, she possessed Emma Frost as the new love to Scott Summers' life. As Emma struggled against the force, a hopeless Scott prayed for Jean's return. With no other choice, Scott freed Jean from the ice. After Jean once again bonded with the Phoenix entity, the X-Men discovered the true reason for her return. Emma called out telepathically to her Stepford Cuckoos and focused the empathic impressions of all Jean's dearest friends. She felt their love for her. This allowed both Jean and the Phoenix to achieve balance before returning to the cosmos. Parting from Scott, she asked one last request before leaving, to see his eyes.

I rest my case

I love cut and paste 🙂

Keep the faith🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The case against

Origin of 616 universe from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus

Originally named Galan (or Galen, the spelling differs on occasion), he hails from the planet Taa, and is the sole survivor of the Big Crunch of the previous universe in which Taa was located. A space explorer investigating the impending end of his universe, he approached the focal point of the Big Crunch and was transformed into a cosmic entity even as the universe collapsed. After the Big Bang of the current universe, to complete his transformation, Galactus was encased in a cosmic egg brimming with enormous energies. After billions of years, he emerged as an entity of vast cosmic power who was also necessary for the existence of the newly formed universe. Galactus is considered one of the five essential entities within the Marvel Universe alongside Eternity, the anthropomorphic personification of the universe, Death, Infinity and Oblivion.

😕

Wheres Phoenix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey

Endsong
Recently, the Shi'ar resurrected the Phoenix entity in hopes of destroying it while it was relatively weak. The entity managed to escape and fled to Earth, where it needed a host to sustain itself. After possessing a firefly and running into Wolverine, the entity resurrected Jean and bonded with her once more.

Jean Grey. Art by Greg Land.Jean realized that the Phoenix was resurrected too early and as a result was mentally unbalanced. She had a confrontation with the X-Men before teleporting Wolverine to the North Pole, where she had him stab her several times, leaving the Phoenix enity weakened and allowing her to once again gain control. Jean then plunged herself through the ice, freezing instantly. When the X-Men arrived, Wolverine told them that Jean was "dead. Or as close as she can get."

When the Phoenix entity returned from the ice, she possessed Emma Frost as the new love to Scott Summers' life. As Emma struggled against the force, a hopeless Scott prayed for Jean's return. With no other choice, Scott freed Jean from the ice. After Jean once again bonded with the Phoenix entity, the X-Men discovered the true reason for her return. Emma called out telepathically to her Stepford Cuckoos and focused the empathic impressions of all Jean's dearest friends. She felt their love for her. This allowed both Jean and the Phoenix to achieve balance before returning to the cosmos. Parting from Scott, she asked one last request before leaving, to see his eyes.

I rest my case

I love cut and paste 🙂

Keep the faith🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

Well that shows that those characters are universal to there universe. which would explain why they are not a constant when its time to reset creation. . .

It also helps to further my theory about there being a seperate sentient entity that calls itself the phoenix force that's seperate from the rest of the phoenix force.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well that shows that those characters are universal to there universe. which would explain why they are not a constant when its time to reset creation. . .

It also helps to further my theory about there being a seperate sentient entity that calls itself the phoenix force that's seperate from the rest of the phoenix force.

In Galens 616 Phoenix didn't do it 🙂 Claremonts senility is hilarious and it means a big continuity problem and not retcon...... Its like half the things John Byrne did to the vision. Sad and funny.

Now my use of references is different they are open to people interpretation 🙂

Oh and as for the "White room"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey

Here Comes Tomorrow
Jean was then resurrected in the last arc of New X-Men: "Here Comes Tomorrow", bearing the Phoenix entity once again. This future timeline went wrong when Scott Summers decided to decline the offer of Emma Frost to once again open up Xavier's Institute. Hank McCoy then takes up the dubious burden of re-opening the school and under the pressure, begins taking the drug “Kick”. The villain John Sublime possesses Hank McCoy through “Kick” and he is insane by it. Jean comes in time to stop Hank from destroying the world with the Phoenix. She then transcends into the “White Room” with all the other Phoenix hosts, but not before sending her husband Scott Summers a mental push to accept Emma Frost’s offer and affections.

Somehow knowing her fate before she died, she made a holoempathic imprint of her full essence, and everything that she was, for her daughter, Rachel "Grey" Summers. She did this so that no matter what happened to her body, her soul would always be with Rachel

Nothing about God, TOAA etc at all

And again:

Please post the Source as no mention of Phoenix is in Wiki or The Galactus one shot 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The case against

Origin of 616 universe from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus

Originally named Galan (or Galen, the spelling differs on occasion), he hails from the planet Taa, and is the sole survivor of the Big Crunch of the previous universe in which Taa was located. A space explorer investigating the impending end of his universe, he approached the focal point of the Big Crunch and was transformed into a cosmic entity even as the universe collapsed. After the Big Bang of the current universe, to complete his transformation, Galactus was encased in a cosmic egg brimming with enormous energies. After billions of years, he emerged as an entity of vast cosmic power who was also necessary for the existence of the newly formed universe. Galactus is considered one of the five essential entities within the Marvel Universe alongside Eternity, the anthropomorphic personification of the universe, Death, Infinity and Oblivion.

😕

Wheres Phoenix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey

Endsong
Recently, the Shi'ar resurrected the Phoenix entity in hopes of destroying it while it was relatively weak. The entity managed to escape and fled to Earth, where it needed a host to sustain itself. After possessing a firefly and running into Wolverine, the entity resurrected Jean and bonded with her once more.

Jean Grey. Art by Greg Land.Jean realized that the Phoenix was resurrected too early and as a result was mentally unbalanced. She had a confrontation with the X-Men before teleporting Wolverine to the North Pole, where she had him stab her several times, leaving the Phoenix enity weakened and allowing her to once again gain control. Jean then plunged herself through the ice, freezing instantly. When the X-Men arrived, Wolverine told them that Jean was "dead. Or as close as she can get."

When the Phoenix entity returned from the ice, she possessed Emma Frost as the new love to Scott Summers' life. As Emma struggled against the force, a hopeless Scott prayed for Jean's return. With no other choice, Scott freed Jean from the ice. After Jean once again bonded with the Phoenix entity, the X-Men discovered the true reason for her return. Emma called out telepathically to her Stepford Cuckoos and focused the empathic impressions of all Jean's dearest friends. She felt their love for her. This allowed both Jean and the Phoenix to achieve balance before returning to the cosmos. Parting from Scott, she asked one last request before leaving, to see his eyes.

I rest my case

I love cut and paste 🙂

Keep the faith🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

#1) The Phoenixforce is shapeless and not an entity. This energy does not need a shape to bring a universe into another cycle...which is a natural process.
The avatars are there only to correct, eliminate or recreate something that has gone wrong!
Combining both facts you will certainly have no Phoenix-bird hovering over the last big bang of 616.

#2)What did you want to prove in your "case" with the Endsong story?🤨

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Please post the Source as no mention of Phoenix is in Wiki or The Galactus one shot 🙂

Latest F4 Handbook which has more holding than Wikipedia 😆

The Galactus One Shot is not current continuity

There was a origin story before that which got retconned by the one shot 😂

Phoenix is now involved in his origin as per current continuity. Deal with it

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Latest F4 Handbook which has more holding than Wikipedia 😆

The Galactus One Shot is not current continuity

There was a origin story before that which got retconned by the one shot 😂

Phoenix is now involved in his origin as per current continuity. Deal with it

So where does it mention God or the one above all in relation to Phoenix it just says the Phoenix Force of the Dying Universe, do you have the Phoenix scan from the most up to date handbook 🙂

Oh and you "scanned" it how........

So scan me where it says Phoenix is Gods power or even the TOAA's power better yet show the Phoenix scan.

🙂

Of course the Galactus one shot is still current continuity, it just means Marvel have another problem with continuity🙂 thats what retcon really means. 🙂

Come on you have a scanner you've proved it show me the Phoenix scan.

🙂

Phoenix 2 was the sentient energy being that assumed Jean Grey's identity and later became Dark Phoenix.

Phoenix 4 is Jean grey who was Marvel Girl that is the phoenix of the white crown.

That's the problem, Phoenix 2 was calling itself the Phoenix force as well. . .