Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i am posting these clips to show everyone here what cops go through every day. if you had this job, wouldnt you take every precaution necessary?
i know somehow someone here will turn the tables on me and use these videos against me.
Yup. The drunk man in the first clip should have been handcuffed as soon as he was seen drunk(driving while intoxicated is a crime). The taser of him and his brother was unnecessary.
The article of the cop who got shot is irrelevant. Yes, the immigrant was illegal, but when you pat someone down, you MAKE SURE they don't have a weapon. Cop's mistake.
In the first police shooting, that was fine. The suspect shot at a cop, down he goes.
In the second police shooting, all he had to do was pistol whip him a few times. Knock him unconscious, arrest him. Although I understand when you are fighting for your life, incapacitation is not the average person's first thought, cops are trained professionals.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the hypothetical situation is valid. you have to put yourself in their situations. you cant judge someone for their actions til you walk a mile i their shoes. you are just refusing to see it my way because it has some validity.
he wasnt crazed? did you hear him going ape shit even BEFORE they tazed him? you should really look at the video and the article i posted a few posts ago. this is what cops out up with on a daily basis. the officer that was killed, well, i knew of him personally. he was a friend of one of my cop buddies. read the article.
cops lives are constantly in danger. truthfully, if i were one of the cops there, i would not have tazed him. i would have grabbed his arm and politely tried to escort him from the premises to question him outside. if he refused, i would have physically forced him to the ground, cuffed him, then detain him until he calmed down. these cops had their own game plan. apparently they felt that to subdue him with their hands meant harming him physically, so they incapacitated. and, as i said, i have seen what a prisoner in cuffs is capable of. believe you me, just cuz someone is cuffed, that doesnt neutralize them.
since you seem to have a degree in law enforcement, please tell us what the cops should have done to him. i am dying to hear this.
No, your question doesn't matter at all. Because it has nothing to do with the major problem of the situation - Tasering him 4 times while handcuffed and NOT doing anything. Me being in their shoes doesn't change this. It doesn't change a thing.
Also, all this shit about what cops put up with and deal with on a daily basis doesn't have a thing to do with the situation. I know cops deal with shitty people, but that doesn't mean that it's now acceptable for them to deem EVERYONE they encounter as a shitty threatening person and taser him several times. There needs to be an actual reason to taser someone, being an ******* doesn't count. Besides, these weren't hard knock cops out in the tough streets, these are ****ing campus police, dealing with students.
You keep saying you've seen someone in cuffs be dangerous, that's fine, never denied that it was possible that someone in cuffs can deserve a taser. The problem is THIS SPECIFIC CASE, and in this case he clearly wasn't being dangerous while cuffed. You keep saying "well you don't know, he may have been doing something while cuffed". Fine, provide evidence for that or get that out of here. It's baseless to think so, seeing as every single piece of evidence shows and supports the opposite - Him lying on the ground simply not standing up, which is not grounds for tasering him more.
You also haven't explained why it's okay for these cops to threaten other students with the taser, simply for asking for their information and for standing next to them trying to talk to them and ask them questions.
Originally posted by BackFire
No, your question doesn't matter at all. Because it has nothing to do with the major problem of the situation - Tasering him 4 times while handcuffed and NOT doing anything. Me being in their shoes doesn't change this. It doesn't change a thing.Also, all this shit about what cops put up with and deal with on a daily basis doesn't have a thing to do with the situation. I know cops deal with shitty people, but that doesn't mean that it's now acceptable for them to deem EVERYONE they encounter as a shitty threatening person and taser him several times. There needs to be an actual reason to taser someone, being an ******* doesn't count. Besides, these weren't hard knock cops out in the tough streets, these are ****ing campus police, dealing with students.
You keep saying you've seen someone in cuffs be dangerous, that's fine, never denied that it was possible that someone in cuffs can deserve a taser. The problem is THIS SPECIFIC CASE, and in this case he clearly wasn't being dangerous while cuffed. You keep saying "well you don't know, he may have been doing something while cuffed". Fine, provide evidence for that or get that out of here. It's baseless to think so, seeing as every single piece of evidence shows and supports the opposite - Him lying on the ground simply not standing up, which is not grounds for tasering him more.
You also haven't explained why it's okay for these cops to threaten other students with the taser, simply for asking for their information and for standing next to them trying to talk to them and ask them questions.
i ask again, what would you do? all of you here, not just BF, what would you do?
Me looking at this in an objective manner (Which I am doing now) is much better than me trying to look at it from a subjective perspective. I already answered your question, I would not taser the kid for yelling, and I certainly wouldn't taser him while he was handcuffed, and I also wouldn't threaten other students for asking for my information (This is illegal, by the way, factually, cops can't just threaten whoever the hell they want).
All the kid had to do was comply, yes. But this doesn't excuse their actions. You seem to be under the strange belief that if anyone does anything wrong, the cops can justify tasering them . No, for a taser to be justified there has to be a legitimate threat of violence, and they're only allowed to use it until they get the person under control, and no longer a threat. They can't just continue to assault someone because he did something wrong earlier, even though now he's totally under their control, handcuffed and all.
There, now can we get past this pointless "what would you do" exercise, and move on to discussing why you think it's fine for them to taser anyone they want, for any little reason at all, and why you don't agree with the law that it is illegal for them to threaten violence on other by-standards for simply asking them questions about their information and identity in a calm, reasonable manner?
well, i still say tazing him was better than beating the hell out of him. as far as picking up the student and carryignhim out, you cant do that when they are cuffed. you can seriously harm the prisoner by doing this.
ok....lets say there is a thread about a jet fighter pilot who, under combat conditions, vaped an innocent village. are you just gonna say "hes a murderer", or are you gonna think "you know, i am not a jet fighter pilot, so i cannot judge him."
before you tell me that this has nothing to do with the thread, really think about it. if not, then you are one of those people who rushes to premature conclusions, accusing someone of doing something wrong before considering what they were going through.
Jesus Christ, could you possibly make a worse analogy and comparison?
I assume the pilot accidentally vaped this village? Because he didn't know better? Well, these cops didn't accidentally taser a guy several times while he was handcuffed on the ground.
If the pilot knew it was an innocent village, that posed no threat, prior to bombing it, and continued anyways because someone in the village was yelling at him while flying over the village, then yes, he would be a murderer.
And you can seriously hurt someone with a taser, too. Even KILL them sometimes. Carrying him out would have been much safer, much better, and probably would have caused no problems.
heres something. not much info on the specs, other than voltage.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/05/24/taser000523.html#skip300x250
this one is pretty informative....
but then there is this one......
http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/police_back_tasers.htm
Originally posted by PVS
thanks for the irrelevant clips
now try to show me a video of someone on the ground and in handcuffs posing a threat to police officers. oh thats right, you wont find one, because it doest exist, because it cannot and will not happen. kthx
Like, Doctor Octopus could so be a threat.