Hurricane Katrina packs winds (175mph)

Originally posted by BackFire
I don't know if global warming is or isn't occuring, and frankly, I don't care. I don't care if some mountain top is showing. My point was aimed at the people placing blame on Global warming as the cause of numerous problems, that's bullshit, global warming itself is a fine theory.

so what will it take to make you believe its happening?
global warming IS acknowledged and is seen as potentially disasterous. the debate is whether or not its caused by mankind or simply some uncontrollable global trend.

either way, its certainly something to give a shit about,
warmer water = more powerful hurricanes

and since we dont know, its completely insane to just assume its not our fault and investigate no further.

Really sucks for people in New Orleans. I guess this means we're probably next.

I gotta say, even though people always said that one day New Orleans would be submerged, I never thought it would actually happen. It's like when people say that California is going to break off of the United States and sink into the ocean... just one of those crazy hypothetical situations that you never expect to be made into reality.

Originally posted by PVS
so what will it take to make you believe its happening?
global warming IS acknowledged and is seen as potentially disasterous. the debate is whether or not its caused by mankind or simply some uncontrollable global trend.

either way, its certainly something to give a shit about,
warmer water = more powerful hurricanes

and since we dont know, its completely insane to just assume its not our fault and investigate no further.

Never said it shouldn't be investigated, merely that it's a flawed mentality and flawed logic to simply go around saying that global warming is to blame blah blah blah, just as it's foolish to go around placing blame on anyone/anything right now because their are more important things to worry about then who's to blame for a damn hurricane. People try to place blame about anything these days, and it's even worse that some people are trying to use this tragedy as a means to push their political agenda....it's just shameful.

Their are plenty of people who doubt global warming by the way, and theirs even more that doubt the "dangers" of global warming, and many can put up valid arguments against it.

This will be as big as 9/11 once we get the death tolls out trust me. Stage 2 (the bodies) will be a very tough one.

I have seen some pictures on another site ; gruesome task to gather them

A dog continues its vigil -- now into days -- near the body of its owner at a gas station in New Orleans

I had to post this. People cant leave their pets, and Vice versa.

Originally posted by bilb
oh yes by all means.. right now while people are starving & drowning lets all look at global warming... FFS.. these people need food, shelter & compassion not rhetoric.. show a little sensitivity would ya??

thats just the problem though isn't it...everyone thinks in the short term...perhaps if they'd given 2 ****s back when global warming was first shown as a consequence of our actions then perahps the whole disaster could have been prevented or at least lessened

Originally posted by BackFire
I don't know if global warming is or isn't occuring, and frankly, I don't care. I don't care if some mountain top is showing. My point was aimed at the people placing blame on Global warming as the cause of numerous problems, that's bullshit, global warming itself is a fine theory.

so the fact that hurricanes get their power from sea temperature and the fact that the warmer the atmosphere is the warmer the sea is doesn't make you wonder a bit

Originally posted by jaden101
thats just the problem though isn't it...everyone thinks in the short term...perhaps if they'd given 2 ****s back when global warming was first shown as a consequence of our actions then perahps the whole disaster could have been prevented or at least lessened

I never said we shouldnt deal with it.. I've been clmaoring for alternate energy sources for a decade now..

THE POINT IS a debate/decicion on how to deal with global warmimg is NOT gonna save any lives right now.. and hell yes I am thinking in the short term.. people are dead & more dying DAILY.. THATS my main concern ATM as I would think it would be eveeryones

This is pure crap now. FEMA needs some ass whooping. They say respect the dead when they have left dead bodies since last Monday in the middle of the street!http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07644534.htm

Like if you can show thousands of bodies being put into mass graves by a bulldozer in the Tsunami on CNN with no warning why not show the real truth. Those images were the ones that opened the worlds eyes to what happen and it opened the wallets of the people (like me)
I think they should show the truth because this was a terrible event and the media should not stop pouncing on the GOVT. For once the media is doing a good job.

I just came across this, it's a recount of the hurricane, the aftermath, and the government's response from someone who lived in a New Orleans suburb.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/selphish/584955.html

Originally posted by manny321
This is pure crap now. FEMA needs some ass whooping. They say respect the dead when they have left dead bodies since last Monday in the middle of the street!http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07644534.htm

Like if you can show thousands of bodies being put into mass graves by a bulldozer in the Tsunami on CNN with no warning why not show the real truth. Those images were the ones that opened the worlds eyes to what happen and it opened the wallets of the people (like me)
I think they should show the truth because this was a terrible event and the media should not stop pouncing on the GOVT. For once the media is doing a good job.

Hardly. These were once decent human beings and should be treated with respect. Not to put their decaying corpses on the face of every newspaper in order to rack up sales. It has nothing to with censorship. It has to with some compassion to the families.

As for the dead bodies being "left" there. That's absolutely false. First they have to wift their way through the chaos to find the dead bodies. Then they have to find a place to put them. Then they have to put up identification systems. Then they have to remove them. This takes time. It was best to leave them where they were (in body bags) in order to properly organize.

The state simply didn't do its job. The FEMA is just cleaning up their mess.

Found another link...this is a timeline of Katrine, apologies if someone has posted it before.

http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/

Originally posted by Lana
I just came across this, it's a recount of the hurricane, the aftermath, and the government's response from someone who lived in a New Orleans suburb.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/selphish/584955.html

PASS THIS LINK ON PEOPLE

good job lana.. this chick spells it out exactly right.. and lived thru the whole damn thing so she knows whereof she speaks.. you should ALL read it !!

Mutilated corpses?!?!?!?!?!?! What the fcuuck!?!?! It's beyond comprehension.

Originally posted by Lana
Found another link...this is a timeline of Katrine, apologies if someone has posted it before.

http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/

As for the dead bodies being "left" there. That's absolutely false. First they have to wift their way through the chaos to find the dead bodies. Then they have to find a place to put them. Then they have to put up identification systems. Then they have to remove them. This takes time. It was best to leave them where they were (in body bags) in order to properly organize.

They aren't in body bags. Many are still on the streets. I understand why they are there when floating in water, but I don't understand why they are sitting there in the dry streets, left for days while national guard troops march around them, while fema trucks drive past them, while president bush uses firefighters and coast guard choppers for window dressing on his photo ops.

And it shouldn't have taken a full week to organize when people knew this was coming for days beforehand - FEMA waited to order people there until after the hurricane hit, adding hours to the time. ACtually, it added days, but if even if they were fast, they would have got there AT BEST by late monday, well after the hurricane was gone.

Only the federal government can airlift food and water to people stranded (stranded because FEMA didn't hold up their end of the bargain in providing bus drivers like they had in their New Orleans hurricane excercise earlier).

The Federal government has done more wrong than right in this debacle. Hell, Michael Brown sid he didn't even KNOW of the possibility of air lifts to people on WEDNESDAY on an interview with Brian Williams. Chertoff claimed he didn't know of the people in the convention center on Wednesday. Hundreds died because of the federal government's bungling of the relief efforts.

EDIT: Once the President declares a federal emergency, he is then in control and responsible for the situation. As the declaration (dated August 27) says:

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures
...
Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.

I believe that helping evacuate people would 'alleviate the impacts of the emergency'

Originally posted by ElectricBugaloo
That timeline is awesome. I linked to it on my blog, I just want to recommend people read it. It does have a liberal bias, but every event is backed up by news stories from reputable sources (AP, WAshington Post, NYTimes, etc.) I recommend people read this before talking about the hurricane so as to be at least partially informed.

Glad you found it of use, the girl who's LJ entry I linked a few posts up (the one who was in LA during the hurricane) linked it in a comment. I found it to be pretty interesting and helpful in understanding what's been going on, especially as everything on there is from a reputable source and that source is cited.

I'll check it out, I also just added something about FEMA's functions and what President Bush's federal declaration of emergency said about FEMA's responsibilities in this crisis at my blog (linked in my sig - not the website, the blog).

it does have some pretty good stuff in it...its just a pity that it misses out a lot of information as well...such as the fact that mayor of new orleans ordering forceful evacuations of people which has resulted in old people being battered by police (strange how its a big issue when its an anti war protester being zapped)

or how the mayor of new orleans also failed to sign over the command of the national guard to the presidency

or the fact that it was bush who called the louisiana state govener to ask for the evacuation on sunday 28th of august despite the fact that he has no legal powers to do so

or the fact that louisiana state authorities pretty much ignored this

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf