Originally posted by Fishy
No, because with all the unknowns we have its best to use standard logic, making Anakin 50% force, Luke 25% force and thus as powerful as Sidious. NJO Luke can easily be killed atleast he should be able to easily die.Even at most he would be 150% Sidious, and thats at the very best for him. Even then he would get owned by a shit load of people.
And now I throw in another statement from Lucas where he said that Anakin had the potential to become 10 times as powerful as Sidious. And now you have Luke being 5 or 7.5 times as powerful as Sidious what is quite enough to kill any other force user - or can you imagine somebody that can kill 5 or 7 Sidious clones at once ?
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
And now I throw in another statement from Lucas where he said that Anakin had the potential to become 10 times as powerful as Sidious. And now you have Luke being 5 or 7.5 times as powerful as Sidious what is quite enough to kill any other force user - or can you imagine somebody that can kill 5 or 7 Sidious clones at once ?
And I say this: don't argue the point that Anakin is partially Force AT ALL, since you basically have nothing to go on. You also have only the vaguest, number based generality of his power, and even that could drastically change with environmental factors, mindsets, experience, etc. I could argue that Anakin trained directly under Master Yoda could reach more potential. I could argue that Anakin as a full potential Sith could exceed even that amount. I could argue as a Makashi Master, he would be considerably more dangerous.
And this is where I come back to the point "Don't argue the totally unknowns." You can't argue Full Potential Anakin and his relation to NJO Luke's powers any more than you could argue that Lord Hoth was named for the planet. Why? Well, for one thing, GL didn't write NJO. He didn't regulate NJO Luke's powers, and why would he? The bullshit makes him money. Obviously some of you kept reading it. No Jedi in the movies is remotely close to the insanely noobish power level of NJo Luke, despite more training (Like Yoda... 900 years), training from birth, etc. His abilities are so ridiculously beyond explanable that you could never again relate him to Anakin. Anakin had nowhere near that amount of power, and to argue that he neccessarily would is an argument from ignorance.
And don't spout of percentiles and genetics; not a damn one of you here is a genetist on the side. And keep in mind that genetics is a relatively new science and that advocating such numbers is basing your entire argument on the randoms and unknowns of genetic science, something that still needs tremendous amounts of work.
So back to the topic, NJO Luke would win, simply because his powers are so out of proportion with the movies and what GL has shown us as Jedi and the Force. Instakill lightning and cloaking planets or killing a thousand warriors is way above anything the PT era or OT era jedi can do. NJO is easily well over the measley 200 %... or really, what Lucas said was closer to 160%. In any case, this argument is pointless and the key focus here is NJO Luke's overblown abilities, which put the odds in his favor. He wins.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
And I say this: don't argue the point that Anakin is partially Force AT ALL, since you basically have nothing to go on. You also have only the vaguest, number based generality of his power, and even that could drastically change with environmental factors, mindsets, experience, etc. I could argue that Anakin trained directly under Master Yoda could reach more potential. I could argue that Anakin as a full potential Sith could exceed even that amount. I could argue as a Makashi Master, he would be considerably more dangerous.And this is where I come back to the point "Don't argue the totally unknowns." You can't argue Full Potential Anakin and his relation to NJO Luke's powers any more than you could argue that Lord Hoth was named for the planet. Why? Well, for one thing, GL didn't write NJO. He didn't regulate NJO Luke's powers, and why would he? The bullshit makes him money. Obviously some of you kept reading it. No Jedi in the movies is remotely close to the insanely noobish power level of NJo Luke, despite more training (Like Yoda... 900 years), training from birth, etc. His abilities are so ridiculously beyond explanable that you could never again relate him to Anakin. Anakin had nowhere near that amount of power, and to argue that he neccessarily would is an argument from ignorance.
And don't spout of percentiles and genetics; not a damn one of you here is a genetist on the side. And keep in mind that genetics is a relatively new science and that advocating such numbers is basing your entire argument on the randoms and unknowns of genetic science, something that still needs tremendous amounts of work.
So back to the topic, NJO Luke would win, simply because his powers are so out of proportion with the movies and what GL has shown us as Jedi and the Force. Instakill lightning and cloaking planets or killing a thousand warriors is way above anything the PT era or OT era jedi can do. NJO is easily well over the measley 200 %... or really, what Lucas said was closer to 160%. In any case, this argument is pointless and the key focus here is NJO Luke's overblown abilities, which put the odds in his favor. He wins.
I liked the first three paragraphs, but I just can't see NJO Luke winning this fight. He would do good, but I think he would fail. I haven't read the series so I don't know much about it except what others say. I think thousands of Yuuzhan Vong is an exaggeration, but again, I have no idea truly. I do know however, that ONE of the Yuuzhan Vong (the one pretending to be the supreme overlord and probably second strongest) nearly killed Luke but Luke did win with two lightsabers. That alone tells me he's not nearly as powerful as you're laying on and I don't think he could beat Yoda and Mace at the same time.
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I liked the first three paragraphs, but I just can't see NJO Luke winning this fight. He would do good, but I think he would fail. I haven't read the series so I don't know much about it except what others say. I think thousands of Yuuzhan Vong is an exaggeration, but again, I have no idea truly. I do know however, that ONE of the Yuuzhan Vong (the one pretending to be the supreme overlord and probably second strongest) nearly killed Luke but Luke did win with two lightsabers. That alone tells me he's not nearly as powerful as you're laying on and I don't think he could beat Yoda and Mace at the same time.
The exact number of Vong Luke killed doesn't matter much. He entered the headquarter of the Vong and fought his way through it. Now important scene number one:
Fighting 8 YV slayers. Statement given that Jacen and Jaina didn't do much to aid Luke. Now: Kyp Durron wasn't able to kill one of those slayers - now Luke kills 7 with his lightsaber and than instakills one with that "green sparks force power".
Scene two:
Now the Supreme Overlord is even more powerful than the slayers. After having killed the slayers (so having used at least some force powers) Luke faces the Supreme Overlord and - at least - kills him.
That can't be considered a "fair" duel since Luke had to do some fighting before reaching the Supreme Overlord and still Luke won that fight.
Conclusion:
If his raw force power combined with his knowledge and his lightsaber skill give him the ability to kill 8 enemies at once of whom one was too much for a Jedi Master (Kyp Durron) who is not that shabby he might be also able to defeat 2 Jedi masters even if those are Yoda and Mace.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Conclusion:
If his raw force power combined with his knowledge and his lightsaber skill give him the ability to kill 8 enemies at once of whom one was too much for a Jedi Master (Kyp Durron) who is not that shabby he might be also able to defeat 2 Jedi masters even if those are Yoda and Mace.
By this same whim, Sidious was able to simultaneously obliterate 3 Jedi Masters, but got put on his ass by Mace Windu (implying M > S > 3 Jedi Masters), so does it mean that Mace is over 3 times as strong as Kyp? Hardly.
You're extrapolation isn't accurate enough to make a proper determination.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Although to be fair, there is nothing to indicate that Kyp had the knowledge and the control to equal one PT master, so far as I've seen.
Well...
Kyp Durron in the NJO series has gone through nearly 2 decades of Jedi training under Luke. He's considered to be the most powerful force user in the NJO without Skywalker blood (so Luke and the Solo children are stronger) and that makes him more powerful than Kyle Katarn.
And you can tell me what you want but Kyle Katarn would be a match for nearly every person in the PT Council with his knowledge, force powers and more than 30 years of experience as soldier, spy and Jedi Knight.