The Wrecker vs Wolverine

hmm, wendigo's power fluctuates, and i don't recall an issue where wolvie ko'd him 1on1. what book are you talking about?

the hercules fight - is that the contest of champions battle? if so, that wasn't really a fight, but wolvie was declared the winner somehow. (course, wolvie couldn't get his claws out of a friggin' TABLE herc blocked them with in the wolvie v hulk reprint . . .)

he beat abomination? that would have been cool. where and do you have scans?

he did hang a while with namor. out of water he might not be cl75 though. and yes, of course, the hulk fights.

hmm, i'm still picking wrecker in the vast majority of these, though i've no doubt wolvie would do some damage. if he DID beat abom 1on1, that is enough to make me waver slightly, though. i'd give wolvie maybe 3/10. again, getting hit by that crowbar is like getting hit by mjollnir. even berserk, he's not taking many of those shots.

good points, as usual. (you know, it's too bad you didn't back a REALLY cool character though! hahahh. us superman fans could use another strong debater in our corner!)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics."
If Hulk, Abomination, Namor, Thing and any other character that can lift scores of tons and hundreds of tons don't knock Wolverine or any other person with basic human durability (yes I know he heals but that isn't durability that's regenerative ability) out in a single page of a comic book then they are engaging in PIS.
I do recall jinzin stating that he knows it is PIS and still uses it (though I could be recalling wrong).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
My problem is that jinzin does this all the time.

Leondas asked what class 100 characters he's consistently BEATEN.

Jinzin knows that leondas will find him wrong, so he's honest and gives a truthful answer.

hercules, ONCE.

Then when another person asked, he feels' he can get over them so he adds ALL these points that are irrelevant to the question.

"He stood up", nono, WHO DID HE BEAT!!!

without plot devices, etc.

Jinzin had to keep going on for the sake of it, and I see right through it.

I rebutted jinzins points, and didn't get a response, just a bunch of smartass remarks, its all I get, so I go on his level.

Yes fanboy, its exactly what it is. When a person HATES to see a character lose, and thinks coolness wins matches.

When the same people come and support them on every thread (go look at all the wolverine threads, and guess who's there.)

Fanboy isn't a derogatory term, I can be a Baldur's gate fanboy, and go to its forum ALL the time.

The problem is in OBJECTIVE debates, when a person lets their extreme bias get past logic its annoying.

I hate it on all threads, be it FF, batman, whatever, fanboyism takes away from a debate.

How wasn't I being objective? JInzin was obviously defending him, he's just doing this to save face.

He argues him beating guys like godzilla, and he's implying that wolverine will absorb everything and get 1 decapitating stab in.

He doesn't have the sufficient strength to do so.

No, jinzin ignored the question.

It was, "jinzin who has wolverine consistently BEATEN, without plot devices etc."

i hate when people try to dance around the point when they have no answer.

Hanging with is almost irrelevant with characters that popular, like I said it makes the comic look good.

My point is that the guy was outnumbered and it won't happen as easily.

Pain doesn't equate to losing either.

To top it off wrecker has given thor much trouble, wolverine is dogshit to thor.

Let logic ensue, and let this thread die, the people are giving themselves the rep, I didn't ask them to stupidly defend a character.

Its the same ol' people wick,no newbs.

Jinzin's premise is that wolverine can cut it, he wins.

he's consistently inconsistent, it means the same thing.

sorry about the pink, but I'm lazy.

Laziness is strong in me as well, so for laziness's sake i'll just not break your post into several quotes, and just leave spaces between my replies. Sorry 🙁

Alright, even if Jinzin didn't answer the question directly, and went around the subject, instead of replying with cases of "winning" with cases of "hanging with", that still stands for something. I can see how it got you upset, and that led to further silly replies, but bleh. Let's move on. So he's hung with those guys, if not beaten them. Plot devices, PIS, or no PIS, he's hung with them, and apparently plenty of times. That implies that he could hang with Wrecker, even if for a short time, he could hang with Wrecker, and maybe, just MAYBE inflict some damage. Therefore, the thread shouldn't be reduced to "He'll lose outright".

What i'm saying is that no one should say "He'll win" or "He'll lose" with such certainty, because there are past cases in which he might've lost, but after a good enough battle.

As for him arguing about the 1 decapitating blow, i didn't really see that, i saw more of the "stab the eyes" thing. 😉 But that doesn't make some of the posters in this thread that say "He'll lose lol hahaha, wrecker will swat him away like a bug, Wrecker will smash him, hahaha" any better. Those are two extremes , one positive for Logan, one negative, and neither should be reached in such a short amount of posts. You don't say "He'll win without a doubt" or "He'll lose without a doubt". You try to take all points into consideration.

Pain, doesn't equate to losing, agreed. But it does mean Wolverine did more than just "Scratch his back" as some stated. That's what i meant.

We shouldn't have to let the thread die, but rather let the personal stuff leave the battlefield mkay?

As for the pink, you're a lazy bastard.....but i love you 😍

~wickerman~

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics."
If Hulk, Abomination, Namor, Thing and any other character that can lift scores of tons and hundreds of tons don't knock Wolverine or any other person with basic human durability (yes I know he heals but that isn't durability that's regenerative ability) out in a single page of a comic book then they are engaging in PIS.
I do recall jinzin stating that he knows it is PIS and still uses it (though I could be recalling wrong).

You're just agreeing with me. It can be PIS. If most of a character's appearances in a comic book are PIS, then that character when put into a fight should have those battles taken into consideration, since it's what happens 90% of the time for him. Understand?

~wickerman~

He'll get some damage, I agree 100%, i just implied that pain doesn't equal winning, see?

But I'm done here, or am I? 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Pointinel
@ WICKERMAN

ok dude this is how cordera and his cronies roll. this is their M.O.
this is practically CM's reality. you know he just wanna piss you off.

so i advise you to be a bigger man, and just stop replying to them.

ok dude?

dont reply, it'll kill cordera.

I don't know you, but i know Cordera, and i've known him for longer than you have. Seeing as how that's the case, excuse me if i don't take your advice and instead try to have a decent debate with a friend (Cordera). Thanks 😉

~wickerman~

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, wendigo's power fluctuates, and i don't recall an issue where wolvie ko'd him 1on1. what book are you talking about?

the hercules fight - is that the contest of champions battle? if so, that wasn't really a fight, but wolvie was declared the winner somehow. (course, wolvie couldn't get his claws out of a friggin' TABLE herc blocked them with in the wolvie v hulk reprint . . .)

he beat abomination? that would have been cool. where and do you have scans?

he did hang a while with namor. out of water he might not be cl75 though. and yes, of course, the hulk fights.

hmm, i'm still picking wrecker in the vast majority of these, though i've no doubt wolvie would do some damage. if he DID beat abom 1on1, that is enough to make me waver slightly, though. i'd give wolvie maybe 3/10. again, getting hit by that crowbar is like getting hit by mjollnir. even berserk, he's not taking many of those shots.

good points, as usual. (you know, it's too bad you didn't back a REALLY cool character though! hahahh. us superman fans could use another strong debater in our corner!)

Yeah, he took abomination out in one single page. The scan is in the wolveine vs. abomination thread, even though people still won't accept it 🙄

That's all i want, nothing more. Even a 1/10 means that you give the guy a fighting chance, and don't just go saying "He loses" outright. As for the wrecker, i personally haven't seen the battle with thor, and don't know that much about his crowbar.....although a crowbar being as strong as Mjolnir sounds so incredibly horrible to me for some reason 😂 .

Thanks for the cool post 👆

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He'll get some damage, I agree 100%, i just implied that pain doesn't equal winning, see?

But I'm done here, or am I? 😖hifty:

Of course pain in itself doesn't equal winning, but pain in quantities that make you yell out and drop your crowbar can reflect a certain ammount of damage right? 😉
I'm stretching it here, but all i'm saying is that in the right circumstances wolverine might actually get 1 or 2 wins in there, and that we shouldn't discard his chances.

And no, you're not done here 😖hifty:

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
You're just agreeing with me. It can be PIS. If most of a character's appearances in a comic book are PIS, then that character when put into a fight should have those battles taken into consideration, since it's what happens 90% of the time for him. Understand?

~wickerman~

I like blue better don't you 😄

keep fighting and I'll ban Wolverine from this forum, as I did with DBZ 😄

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Umm... wickerman the rule is called "No Mentioning Events of PIS" not "No Mentioning Events of PIS except in the case of Wolverine". I'm curious - where do you derive "90%" from?

I like blue better don't you 😄

I am well aware of PIS and CIS, but IMO that should apply mostly for one or two or three-timers, not for years and years of PIS appearances and feats. As for the 90%, i was exaggerating 😮 .

And no.....blue isn;t quite as shexxah as pink schmoll

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Paola
keep fighting and I'll ban Wolverine from this forum, as I did with DBZ 😄

You do that and i......i.....cry ......i won't love and worship the ground you walk on anymore schmoll

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Paola
keep fighting and I'll ban Wolverine from this forum, as I did with DBZ 😄

Originally posted by Wickerman
I am well aware of PIS and CIS, but IMO that should apply mostly for one or two or three-timers, not for years and years of PIS appearances and feats. As for the 90%, i was exaggerating 😮 .

And no.....blue isn;t quite as shexxah as pink schmoll

~wickerman~

I guess that's where we come to an impasse - imo the rules should apply to all characters not just those who are well-written.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... should I tempt fate i.e. our lovely mod... I wouldn't call it fighting - me and wickerman are having a relatively civilised debate. 😄

(How about green?)

I guess that's where we come to an impasse - imo the rules should apply to all characters not just those who are well-written.

Of course we're having a relatively civilised debate, after all, we both love kitty pride right? 😍

no 🙁

I'm not talking about the rules applying only to characters that are well-writen, but rather as an exception to characters that are constantly badly written 🙁 ......wait......that made no sense......well, i'll blame this post on a monster headache. After all, you know what they say, excuses are like a-holes. Everybody has one 😉

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Paola
keep fighting and I'll ban Wolverine from this forum, as I did with DBZ 😄

Originally posted by Wickerman
I don't know you, but i know Cordera, and i've known him for longer than you have. Seeing as how that's the case, excuse me if i don't take your advice and instead try to have a decent debate with a friend (Cordera). Thanks 😉

~wickerman~

The question for you is if most of the characters carrer appears to be PIS, then is it really PIS since that's what the character does?

I mean his first appearence he hung with the Hulk and beat Wendigo. . . You can't blame any sort of popularity or sales on a new unknown doing something you think is PIS can you? I mean it's not like its Onslaught, who's doing things that are blatently against continuity.

Even when he was first made a superhero, people still didn't really know who he was, and he still took (occording to collossus) a full force hit from collossus, without being knocked out. You can't blame popularity or sales for this either since he was still not a well known character. . .

Originally posted by Wickerman
Of course pain in itself doesn't equal winning, but pain in quantities that make you yell out and drop your crowbar can reflect a certain ammount of damage right? 😉
I'm stretching it here, but all i'm saying is that in the right circumstances wolverine might actually get 1 or 2 wins in there, and that we shouldn't discard his chances.

And no, you're not done here 😖hifty:

~wickerman~

Yes, but people shouldn't stupidly defend him like he's tearing him apart canuck style...

Originally posted by Creshosk
The question for you is if most of the characters carrer appears to be PIS, then is it really PIS since that's what the character does?

I mean his first appearence he hung with the Hulk and beat Wendigo. . . You can't blame any sort of popularity or sales on a new unknown doing something you think is PIS can you? I mean it's not like its Onslaught, who's doing things that are blatently against continuity.

Even when he was first made a superhero, people still didn't really know who he was, and he still took (occording to collossus) a full force hit from collossus, without being knocked out. You can't blame popularity or sales for this either since he was still not a well known character. . .

this isn't the pages of a comic book, if so, wrecker gives thor trouble, equals done for wolverine.

Lets not go by intangibles, I can make a list a mile long on who beat who.

wolverine is an 800 lb lifter, he's a peak human speed person, he has acute senses, he is an expert fighter, he heals.

Right there are mostly variables, 3 of them, so people fluctuate them.

As for hulk, wolverine couldn't cut him, nor thing, nor colossus.

DD put him out, marrow, etc, thing and hulk did easily.

Its what most likely will happened, not 100% what has happened, why debate it then, see what I mean?

Originally posted by Creshosk
The question for you is if most of the characters carrer appears to be PIS, then is it really PIS since that's what the character does?

I mean his first appearence he hung with the Hulk and beat Wendigo. . . You can't blame any sort of popularity or sales on a new unknown doing something you think is PIS can you? I mean it's not like its Onslaught, who's doing things that are blatently against continuity.

Even when he was first made a superhero, people still didn't really know who he was, and he still took (occording to collossus) a full force hit from collossus, without being knocked out. You can't blame popularity or sales for this either since he was still not a well known character. . .

When talking about the first appearance, you can't blame popularity or sales, but you can blame PIS, simply for the fact that as jinzin himself has said, Logan was initially supposed to be a Hulk villain. Even if he didn't have the prerequisites to tangle with the Hulk and Wendigo he did, and that can be argued to be because of his purpose in the comic book.

~wickerman~