Originally posted by Dark Nemesis
UH, actually I do explain my points. ANd I did in this thread. I suggest paging back and reading my posts before you spout of crap like that. I haven't exactly seen any breakthroughs on your end.
Should I make breakthroughs? I just wanted to know some things about this fight, it sounded very weird they could take on 10.000 warriors.
Sorry if I wasn't convinced easily, pfff... 🙄
overlord. Here's a tip. If you haven't read through the entire thread, DON'T talk.
Here, you clearly missed individuals like Faunus, NemesisJanus, Fishy, and myself make all the points in the world about why Ragnos should win.
This is the Jedi Temple, it's not 10000 Jedi swarming around Ragnos and his 70 HK droids in the chamber of Moria. Get it right. The Jedi are screwed.
Yeah, but there were some other guy's who said the droids wouldn't matter, that's why I began about Ragnos.
But it is pretty hard talking to you guy's though, especially with those retarded random posts once in while.
But I did say that if the droids were as strong as you guys said they were the jedi would probably die, but I guess everybody ignores most of my posts..
Originally posted by Illustrious
Well if you don't know about HK droids, you should read up on it. Ignorance is never an excuse.
How come I'm suddenly in conversation with you and how come you are calling me ignorent just because I never read a story about these droids, well soooooooooorrry then, mister sensitive... 🙄
By the way I was already convinced by Fishy about your opinion (I thought I'd say that because you haven't read this thread), you on the other hand haven't really contributed to that though, so why are you still mad?
Originally posted by Illustrious
How was that sensitive? If you don't have a clue about a major variable in the equation, then why are you trying to solve it?It's common sense, if you don't know about it, read up on it.
Yeah, well that's why I asked about them, it took a long time for that answer though..
And that is why I excluded your droid (variable) to talk about the Ragnos dude as people previously said the droids wouldn't really matter, but I can continue repeating myself forever if you don't read what I posted... So let's just leave it here? Pretty please?
I didn't even mean to get serious on this subject, but you people react so violently to anything against your opinion.
Originally posted by overlord
Agreed, Dark Nemesis gets the dumb last word.
Wow. You got something bottled up and are using it against someone who didn't insult, but gave you a suggestion that wouldn't lead to Illustrious defeatign you in a debate everytime. You bite the hand fo the giver; the exact reason why you are stupid.
I can't believe that this thread really went over 30 pages...
Originally posted by Fishy
Yoda, Mace, Obi Wan, Anakin will go first. They are the most powerful of the order. The most powerful masters. Now those guys are going to get slaughtered.
Sorry Fishy. You don't really want to tell me that Ragnos would survive the entire Council attacking him ? Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Saesee Tiin, Stass Allie, Agen Kolar, Shaak Ti ? Mind the fact that Ragnos is wielding a Sith Sword (and those things have to be heavy) while the Jedi are all wielding lightsabers (so they gonna be faster than him)...
If the Council attacks Ragnos, he's going down. No matter how powerful he is but there is no way he will be able to deal with 12 Jedi Masters simultaneously - at least not when you have Yoda (something like an embodyment of the light side) and Mace (the Jedi version of Tulak Hord) there. Ragnos will most likely attack the one with the most raw force powers first (because he will think that this person will be the biggest threat) and this is Anakin. Maybe he will be able to kill most of the master or at least take them out of the fight somehow but at least Yoda and Mace will engage him in melee combat and then he's pretty much toast.
Now the HK-47 droids. 60 of them are enough to destroy all Jedi in the temple ? Just let me do little bit of a numbers game. In AotC you can see Yoda teaching younglings - there are 15 of them and they all have the same age. Now let's just assume that they have the same amount of younglings every year (15) later becoming Padawans and then Jedi-Knights. So...
You would have:
90 Younglings (age 7-13)
165 Padawans (age 14-25)
585 Jedi Knights or Masters (age 26-65)
The Council (12 Masters) + serveral other Masters on Council level (e.g. Cin Dralling)
Now let's assume that all Niman practioners are quite useless in this battle. We know that 200 Jedi were present during the attack on Geonosis and all Niman practioners died - 19 people survived so 10 % of the Jedi seem to practice other forms than Niman (at least).
The younglings are ALL practioning Form I
Add 16,5 (17) Padawans not practioning Form VI
Add 58,5 (59) people with a Knight or Master status that don't practice form VI
Add the council.
Now for the sake of an argument let's assume the following things: forms I, II and VII seem to be very, very uncommon in the order. So most likely the people left (except the Younglings) will practice forms III, IV and V. That results in:
Younglings: 90 Form I praticioners
Padawans: 6 form III, 6 form IV, 5 form VI
Knights: 20 form III, 20 form IV, 19 form VI
So if the council attacks Ragnos there are 166 "effective" fighters left to take on the droids - while the younglings might be no real threat they still can deflect blaster fire. The 17 Padawans and the 59 Knights might be able to take on the droids at least the form III and form V practioneers will most likely not get killed through blasterfire - so the droids will be destroyed here.
And please don't argue that Ragnos and the droids will take the temple "room by room". If you watch AotC (the scene in which Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan are talking about Anakin / arrogance among Jedi) you will see that there are giant halls in the temple and when the first Jedi gets killed you will have all other Jedi coming to the location where that happened (most likely the entrance hall).
So if Ragnos is not going to destroy the entire building he won't win this fight. He might take down 90 % of the Jedi but the rest will be too much for him and the droids.
Originally posted by ResubianNushi
Wow. You got something bottled up and are using it against someone who didn't insult, but gave you a suggestion that wouldn't lead to Illustrious defeatign you in a debate everytime. You bite the hand fo the giver; the exact reason why you are stupid.
Don't worry, I just think Janus' posts here are useless! 😉
And that is why I am stupid and you are smart! 😱
He'll tear huge parts of the building when a large group of Jedi appears Nai. Those Jedi aren't going to easily resist the quickest force attacks of Ragnos. And Mace Windu? Mace is a great lightsaber fighter but he would be overwhelmed with the force in seconds.
And those 12 Jedi Masters you are talking about, all but a few can be taken out with one attack you have seen Sidious do it Ragnos is more powerful and could also pull it off. And then there's the fact that they are not going to be able to all attack Ragnos on the same time.
So large groups are screwed because parts of the building are going to collapse.
Small groups won't stand a chance. Mace doesn't stand a chance. The only one that could Ragnos is Yoda but Yoda his fighting style will make it almost impossible for anybody else to join and once Yoda and Mace are down the rest is going to have a very hard time, they are going to be scared.
Originally posted by Fishy
He'll tear huge parts of the building when a large group of Jedi appears Nai. Those Jedi aren't going to easily resist the quickest force attacks of Ragnos. And Mace Windu? Mace is a great lightsaber fighter but he would be overwhelmed with the force in seconds.
And you think a huge groups of Jedi isn't able to throw back debris that a single force user threw at them ? Erm...
And in fact powerful individuals can withstand Sith magic attack (see Voda vs. Exar Kun) so most likely Anakin, Mace and Yoda (at least) will survive long enough to attack Ragnos and as I said - he's going down.
And those 12 Jedi Masters you are talking about, all but a few can be taken out with one attack you have seen Sidious do it Ragnos is more powerful and could also pull it off. And then there's the fact that they are not going to be able to all attack Ragnos on the same time.
As I said...you only need Mace and Yoda closing to melee combat range and Ragnos is toast.
So large groups are screwed because parts of the building are going to collapse.
Assumption and I don't get the logic behind it.
Small groups won't stand a chance. Mace doesn't stand a chance. The only one that could Ragnos is Yoda but Yoda his fighting style will make it almost impossible for anybody else to join and once Yoda and Mace are down the rest is going to have a very hard time, they are going to be scared.
Yoda alone would defeat Ragnos when he's able to close to melee range. Yoda is too fast to defend against with a normal sword and while Ragnos is a great force user he won't survive a duel against Yoda while using a Sith sword. That's like trying to kill an insect with a bazooka.
Originally posted by Nai FohlRagnos can pwn the council. the jedi mace took with him are the 3 best jedi other than obi mace and yoda. lets say the 6 council members left are as strong as the 3 since most were away. Sids pwned those 3 in 5 seconds and Ragnos is several times stronger then Sids. No more then 5 jedi have room to swing there saber at a time. no Ragnos will have a faster hit. did you see his arms. he can press like 700 pounds so his sword is a feather. in like 5 seconds 8 members are dead. in like 3 seconds a huge force crush kills obi, mace and yoda. not every knight is anakin and not every master is obi. most of them are pray. Ragnos will take the knights and masters that dont use form 6. the droids do the rest.
I can't believe that this thread really went over 30 pages...Sorry Fishy. You don't really want to tell me that Ragnos would survive the entire Council attacking him ? Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Saesee Tiin, Stass Allie, Agen Kolar, Shaak Ti ? Mind the fact that Ragnos is wielding a Sith Sword (and those things have to be heavy) while the Jedi are all wielding lightsabers (so they gonna be faster than him)...
If the Council attacks Ragnos, he's going down. No matter how powerful he is but there is no way he will be able to deal with 12 Jedi Masters simultaneously - at least not when you have Yoda (something like an embodyment of the light side) and Mace (the Jedi version of Tulak Hord) there. Ragnos will most likely attack the one with the most raw force powers first (because he will think that this person will be the biggest threat) and this is Anakin. Maybe he will be able to kill most of the master or at least take them out of the fight somehow but at least Yoda and Mace will engage him in melee combat and then he's pretty much toast.
Now the HK-47 droids. 60 of them are enough to destroy all Jedi in the temple ? Just let me do little bit of a numbers game. In AotC you can see Yoda teaching younglings - there are 15 of them and they all have the same age. Now let's just assume that they have the same amount of younglings every year (15) later becoming Padawans and then Jedi-Knights. So...
You would have:
90 Younglings (age 7-13)
165 Padawans (age 14-25)
585 Jedi Knights or Masters (age 26-65)
The Council (12 Masters) + serveral other Masters on Council level (e.g. Cin Dralling)Now let's assume that all Niman practioners are quite useless in this battle. We know that 200 Jedi were present during the attack on Geonosis and all Niman practioners died - 19 people survived so 10 % of the Jedi seem to practice other forms than Niman (at least).
The younglings are ALL practioning Form I
Add 16,5 (17) Padawans not practioning Form VI
Add 58,5 (59) people with a Knight or Master status that don't practice form VI
Add the council.Now for the sake of an argument let's assume the following things: forms I, II and VII seem to be very, very uncommon in the order. So most likely the people left (except the Younglings) will practice forms III, IV and V. That results in:
Younglings: 90 Form I praticioners
Padawans: 6 form III, 6 form IV, 5 form VI
Knights: 20 form III, 20 form IV, 19 form VISo if the council attacks Ragnos there are 166 "effective" fighters left to take on the droids - while the younglings might be no real threat they still can deflect blaster fire. The 17 Padawans and the 59 Knights might be able to take on the droids at least the form III and form V practioneers will most likely not get killed through blasterfire - so the droids will be destroyed here.
And please don't argue that Ragnos and the droids will take the temple "room by room". If you watch AotC (the scene in which Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan are talking about Anakin / arrogance among Jedi) you will see that there are giant halls in the temple and when the first Jedi gets killed you will have all other Jedi coming to the location where that happened (most likely the entrance hall).
So if Ragnos is not going to destroy the entire building he won't win this fight. He might take down 90 % of the Jedi but the rest will be too much for him and the droids.