Ragnos temple purge

Started by Darth Avis52 pages

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
And you think a huge groups of Jedi isn't able to throw back debris that a single force user threw at them ? Erm...

And in fact powerful individuals can withstand Sith magic attack (see Voda vs. Exar Kun) so most likely Anakin, Mace and Yoda (at least) will survive long enough to attack Ragnos and as I said - he's going down.

As I said...you only need Mace and Yoda closing to melee combat range and Ragnos is toast.

Assumption and I don't get the logic behind it.

Yoda alone would defeat Ragnos when he's able to close to melee range. Yoda is too fast to defend against with a normal sword and while Ragnos is a great force user he won't survive a duel against Yoda while using a Sith sword. That's like trying to kill an insect with a bazooka.

This is Ragnos with force push to mars attack. yoda will be slamed into the wall at lightspeed and will die. Plus when the jedi are stoping the rocks is ragnos going to lightning them? i think yes. Ragnos wont let the jedi get close because of his lightspeed force push and force crush. Ragnos doesnt need magic just normal force attacks.

Jesus, Nai... I suspected you were biased when it came to Mace and Yoda, but you just proved it.

Originally posted by Dark Nemesis
Jesus, Nai... I suspected you were biased when it came to Mace and Yoda, but you just proved it.

What a great post! Oopsy! Now everybody will get angry with me again!

shutup

Originally posted by overlord
What a great post! Oopsy! Now everybody will get angry with me again!

shutup

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😂

Wow your disrespectful.

Nai, how the hell are 12 members of the council going to swarm one guy with deadly lightsabers while FULLY bypassing all the droids and working in perfect collusion against an individual that can likely cut down your typical master in seconds?

Again, there is no reasonable way more than 3 or so individuals can attack one target at the same time. Any more, and you have overlapping lightsaber attacks, and well... let's just say, "TK! TK!"

Yes, more numerous Jedi could probably deflect Ragnos' throwing stuff around, but you're assuming that during the time they are attempting to counter it, Ragnos will simply be standing still. You saw in Episode 2 where Dooku throws the pillar down towards Obi-Wan, and the time it took for Yoda to displace it, he got away. In the same whim, how good are the Jedi at holding up the roof when they are getting lightning and blaster fire raining down on their heads?

Again, NO ONE has of yet proven how the hell more than 3 or 4 Jedi at a time can work with enough collusion to simultaneously attack Ragnos. And no one has demonstrated or taken into account how the Jedi can simply weave their way through flamethrowers and blaster fire. Mace himself was pushed back by Jango's flamethrower, take that times 70. You're trying to show how 10 people can simultaneously squeeze through one door. They can't. They have to go through one at a time. And did you see how fast Palpatine took out those mediocre jedi masters? Ragnos would do it faster, guaranteed.

We know canonically that Ragnos was more powerful than Naga Sadow. We know he is said to possess immense strength and a frightening grasp on the force; since the same adjectives aren't applied to Naga Sadow, we can only conjecture at just what the upper limit of Ragnos' power is, we DO know its immense. Hell, Naga Sadow is an individual that could blow up stars with a wave of his hand, pull solar flares to destroy ships, create his own warrior breed, and the rest. To say Ragnos would simply get swarmed by a bunch of mediocre Jedi when he has 70 HK droids would be an insult to both the highly advanced droids and to the greatest Sith in the Universe.

Ragnos isn't that far above Yoda. He will beat him, but not by a huge amount. It will be about the same as Dooku vs. Obi-wan IMO. If you throw in Obi-wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, Depa Bilaba, Sora Bulq, he will lose.

For the droids. If, like you say, the droids will do most of the killing, then in is unreasonable to say that the Jedi won't sense this and attack them. Mace alonce could take them, but it would likly take at least five minutes. He could lose to the droids, but its unlikly. To cement his victory, through in Luminara and Barriss. Together, they will kill the droids in five minutes tops.

If you don't believe me that Mace could kill these droids, then watch clone wars. He kills several hundred super battle droids.

In this battle, Mace will be the pivot point. If he manages to kill all the droids, then the Jedi win, with maybe a tenth of the Order dying. If one of the droids gets lucky and kills Mace, then the Jedi will probably lose closer to half of the Order because he is the powerhouse for killing the droids. Luminara and Barriss could take the droids without Mace if they had some help from others such as Shaak Ti ect.

Originally posted by ResubianNushi
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😂

Wow your disrespectful.

Someone please shoot me.. wheelchair

by the way nemesis, ignorance is not being able to understand the knowledge that is given to you.

Originally posted by overlord
Someone please shoot me.. wheelchair

laser

Happy? now shut up.

Originally posted by birthoftheforce
by the way nemesis, ignorance is not being able to understand the knowledge that is given to you.

No, ignorance is when you d not know. Here is the definition:

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Nowhere does it state it's where you don't understand the information given to you.

Think of it like this. jedi are going to be super speeding towards ragnos, force pushing ragnos, throwing rubble at ragnos attempting to duel with ragnos and a hell of a lot more than that. there are ten thousand jedi in the temple. only about 15 of those jedi will be killed by the droids. About 50 jedi would be able to attack ragnos at a time whether using sabers of the force. Do you really think ragnos will be able to deal with all of that. No he wont.


Sorry Fishy. You don't really want to tell me that Ragnos would survive the entire Council attacking him ? Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Saesee Tiin, Stass Allie, Agen Kolar, Shaak Ti ? Mind the fact that Ragnos is wielding a Sith Sword (and those things have to be heavy) while the Jedi are all wielding lightsabers (so they gonna be faster than him)...

Weren't you the person who argued that Ragnos successfully cowed a council of twenty ancient Sith? What makes these Jedi council members better than those Sith? Is it because Yoda is in the council? I realize you like Yoda, but your bias for him becomes more and more apparent every day. And assuming Ragnos is slower with the sword is ridiculous. Ragnos is supposed ot have tremendous physical strength. You're a swordsman, Nai... but you obviously don't know a thing about European swordsmanship; fighters from the era of heavy swords could swing as fast as you can swing a stick because they practiced with the weapon every day for years. Longbowmen, who also need lots of physical strength, have arms the size of small tree trunks. Marka Ragnos is half-Sith and very much huge by all accounts. How exactly does he slow down using his trademark weapon?

If the Council attacks Ragnos, he's going down. No matter how powerful he is but there is no way he will be able to deal with 12 Jedi Masters simultaneously - at least not when you have Yoda (something like an embodyment of the light side) and Mace (the Jedi version of Tulak Hord) there. Ragnos will most likely attack the one with the most raw force powers first (because he will think that this person will be the biggest threat) and this is Anakin. Maybe he will be able to kill most of the master or at least take them out of the fight somehow but at least Yoda and Mace will engage him in melee combat and then he's pretty much toast.

Here is a lot of wild speculation that I would expect from someone else. But obviously you have a problem with Ragnos cleaning house here. First off, you're assuming there is no possible way for Ragnos to take the jedi council, as if they will all be in the same spot attacking him. The temple is huge. Unless Ragnos attacks at high noon when the council is in session, they will not likely be near each other like that. In any case, you're presupposing that Ragnos' powers can't defeat Pax Republica era jedi masters, even though Sidious owned three jedi masters in seconds. And Sidious is MUCH weaker than Ragnos. Also, calling Yoda the embodiment of the Force, Mace the Jedi Tulak, and Anakin (on another post) 50% the Force is really, really terrible labeling on your part. For one, Yoda is very good. But his goodness doesn't make him better. Second, Tulak Hordw as legendary in a time of legendary fighters, and was never defeated. He was also a Sith lord of considerable power. Mace WIndu has lost to Dooku, and perhaps would lose to Sidious under certain circumstances. Anakin is arguably made by midi-chlorian manipulation, but it is never said he was born of the Force; if anything, GL hints that he was born of Darth PLageus' experiments, or at least Sidious'.

Now the HK-47 droids. 60 of them are enough to destroy all Jedi in the temple ? Just let me do little bit of a numbers game. In AotC you can see Yoda teaching younglings - there are 15 of them and they all have the same age. Now let's just assume that they have the same amount of younglings every year (15) later becoming Padawans and then Jedi-Knights. So...

You would have:
90 Younglings (age 7-13)
165 Padawans (age 14-25)
585 Jedi Knights or Masters (age 26-65)
The Council (12 Masters) + serveral other Masters on Council level (e.g. Cin Dralling)

Now let's assume that all Niman practioners are quite useless in this battle. We know that 200 Jedi were present during the attack on Geonosis and all Niman practioners died - 19 people survived so 10 % of the Jedi seem to practice other forms than Niman (at least).

The younglings are ALL practioning Form I
Add 16,5 (17) Padawans not practioning Form VI
Add 58,5 (59) people with a Knight or Master status that don't practice form VI
Add the council.

Now for the sake of an argument let's assume the following things: forms I, II and VII seem to be very, very uncommon in the order. So most likely the people left (except the Younglings) will practice forms III, IV and V. That results in:

Younglings: 90 Form I praticioners
Padawans: 6 form III, 6 form IV, 5 form VI
Knights: 20 form III, 20 form IV, 19 form VI

So if the council attacks Ragnos there are 166 "effective" fighters left to take on the droids - while the younglings might be no real threat they still can deflect blaster fire. The 17 Padawans and the 59 Knights might be able to take on the droids at least the form III and form V practioneers will most likely not get killed through blasterfire - so the droids will be destroyed here.

This is all oversimplification with guesstimate numbers to try and make it official.

And please don't argue that Ragnos and the droids will take the temple "room by room". If you watch AotC (the scene in which Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan are talking about Anakin / arrogance among Jedi) you will see that there are giant halls in the temple and when the first Jedi gets killed you will have all other Jedi coming to the location where that happened (most likely the entrance hall).

Ragnos could stand in a doorway and probably eliminate all comers. HK droids, being devious and smart as they are, would probably work in groups and flush the jedi into small rooms and then hail gunfire on them. This, combined with the massive skill of THE Sith lord of Sith lords would obliterate most if not all comers. Period.

and by the way ignorance has evolved into meaning not understanding what you know.

Originally posted by birthoftheforce
Think of it like this. jedi are going to be super speeding towards ragnos, force pushing ragnos, throwing rubble at ragnos attempting to duel with ragnos and a hell of a lot more than that. there are ten thousand jedi in the temple. only about 15 of those jedi will be killed by the droids. About 50 jedi would be able to attack ragnos at a time whether using sabers of the force. Do you really think ragnos will be able to deal with all of that. No he wont.

How are 70 droids only going to take out 15 Jedi? Explain this.

This isn't one giant battlefield where all 10000 Jedi are speedblitzing Ragnos and the droids. This is the JEDI temple, watch the movies, you'll see a lot of relatively small bridges, rooms, and corridors.

Originally posted by birthoftheforce
and by the way ignorance has evolved into meaning not understanding what you know.

Maybe in your vocabulary. Everyone seems to have understood what you meant except for you.

Originally posted by ResubianNushi
laser

Happy? now shut up.

Shut up?? Do you have something bottled up or something??? 😱
(you may ignore this post) 😄

edited

ill explain it to you illustrious. a hk droid is no match for a jedi. All it will do is blaster fire at a jedi and the jedi will just deflect it and either redirect it or saber throw it or something. only about 15 sloppy younglings would get killed by a hk droid. They are nothing special. And if im correct, in KOTOR2 didnt t3m4 kill like 5 hk droids. imguessing a t3m4 are basically the same as a r2d2droid. Using this information 70 hk droids coulod only take out about 15 r2d2 droids.

im guessing you probs wont listen to me because i am not friends with you and dont like you but at leats listen to glentract and nai fol who speak a lot more sense than you

HK could easily take T3M4.