Originally posted by Eminence
...First, Eminence was thirteen in this thread.
Second, fall down a medium-length flight of stairs.
Third, I'm going to report you for
batteryinappropriate contactharassment if you do this again.Fourth, Eminence has subsequently (and publicly) recanted, confessing that Palpatine is by far the greatest, most important, and most powerful Sith Lord, much to Gideon's amusement and delight.
Now kindly go away.
👆
Gideonow
noThere is a filtering process around here in order for someone to have an opinion. We call it the High Council of Perspectives; I am the chairman.
RN is my page, with whom I have had sexual relations.
DS is my oh-so-sexy secretary.
Eminence is my fat, ugly head of security.
GideonFvck me gently.
Fourth, Eminence has subsequently (and publicly) recanted, confessing that Palpatine is by far the greatest, most important, and most powerful Sith Lord, much to Gideon's amusement and delight.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallDid you just quote me from 5 years ago in an attempt to convince the world that it is statistically impossible for people to learn? Did you not realize that you alone prove that argument?
...Was this thread a joke?
birthoftheforce was actually RIGHT in that he saw through the lies of the ancient sith.
If this rant upsets/annoys you, please ignore it.
Originally posted by Eminence
...First, Eminence was thirteen in this thread.
Second, fall down a medium-length flight of stairs.
Third, I'm going to report you for
batteryinappropriate contactharassment if you do this again.Now kindly go away.
I complemented you by saying that you're a good debater.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Did you just quote me from 5 years ago in an attempt to convince the world that it is statistically impossible for people to learn? Did you not realize that you alone prove that argument?
So you as of 2005 apparently didn't know that you should have actual evidence to support a claim?
Did you apologize to that member you wrongfully insulted?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallBingo. I was a silly wee lad back then. Good thing I wizened up and did that thing that (most) humans do in their lifetime: Learn. Would you like to take a leaf?
So you as of 2005 apparently didn't know that you should have actual evidence to support a claim?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallF*ck no. What do I look like, an apologist?
Did you apologize to that member you wrongfully insulted?
@Lord Lucien
So you're not willing to apologize for something when you do something wrong to someone else?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Seriously HWKN, how the flying **** can people not like you when you're this much of a complete saint and are not in anyway a whiney douche? It just boggles teh MIND!Seriously guys, grow teh **** up and admit that you being wrong 5 years ago is a big ****ing deal. 😬
People were unwilling to accept my apology for making a spite thread (although you guys argued for the side that it was against while I argued for the right side, and you guys insulted me for arguing for the winning side) even though I went out of my way to make a whole thread apologizing and sent private messages to a lot of people apologizing as well. And making a spite thread that nobody seemed to recognize for half of the (very long) thread is not as stupid as arguing that Ragnos could somehow take...the entire Jedi Order?????????????????????
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallIs the paradigm you live by threatened by meanness of spirit? I'm sorry for that. Truly. Tell you what. After 5 years of sources and material, and armed with the knowledge I have now, we'll take a whack at retrospect:
@Lord LucienSo you're not willing to apologize for something when you do something wrong to someone else?
I and everyone back in 2005 who thought that a different way than what is accepted now, five years later, is (and was) WRONG. We owe everyone who challenge our opinions an apology. I owe birthoftheforce one. So, Rudy, you get birthoftheforce over here pronto so I can make amends for the tragedies of the past. God knows, when you learn your opinion was wrong in years past, you owe everyone who challenged it an apology. I just hope birthoftheforce can forgive me. My face is gonna be so red when he gets here.
Well whatchya waiting for, Rudy? Go get him!
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallPassive agression is looked down upon. Quit playing the victim.
People were unwilling to accept my apology for making a spite thread (although you guys argued for the side that it was against while I argued for the right side, and you guys insulted me for arguing for the winning side) even though I went out of my way to make a whole thread apologizing and sent private messages to a lot of people apologizing as well. And making a spite thread that nobody seemed to recognize for half of the (very long) thread is not as stupid as arguing that Ragnos could somehow take...the entire Jedi Order?????????????????????
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. You stated it.
I stated what? That it doesn't make sense to put Sidious above Ragnos in a "most powerful Sith" list? Yes. Don't get me wrong: I also don't believe that it makes sense to put Ragnos above Sidious in such a list. Do you get it now?
I can go on: I don't believe that it make sense to call Sidious more powerful than Luke - yet I don't believe it makes much sense to try and prove the opposite either.
See: I don't believe in the "only truth" the "only right interpretation" and the "absolute" in context of fictional works. Hence why I argue (at times) completely contradictionary positions (e.g. arguing Ancient Sith > Ragnos, arguing Yoda > Ancient Sith, arguing PT era Jedi > TOTJ era Jedi). Instead of people calling me out on "my opinion" I'd love if they'd take two seconds to think about my user title.
2. You haven't responded to our PM debate (even though you started again)...interestingly enough, you stopped responding right when I had my best arguments out.
You always have your "best arguments" out and, much like Gideon in another thread, I think your "best arguments" can be replaced by a big pile of monkey crap without anybody noticing. As Gideon and I usually don't agree on many things, you may realize that there might be something true about the idea that you absolutely suck.
3. You contradicted yourself in our argument. You say that quotes don't matter but then use them, say that feats don't matter but then use them, etc.
Do me a favor. Go to wikipedia or Google, enter "context" in the search and start reading. Shall I recap our debate for you? I pointed out that quotes are rather useless, if uttered by some in-universe-source (or even better: an unknown source) and proceeded to give you examples why. You were so kind to not get the point. The result:
You: "Vader thought Sidious was uber powerful"
Me: "Kreia thought that Ragnos was uber powerful"
You: "Yeah. Kreia thought that Ragnos was uber powerful. So what?"
Do you notice something? The same is basically true for the "feats". Context. Starting a discussion with "Ragnos has no lightsaber feats so Sidious wins" probably isn't a smart move, is it? I mean: Ragnos isn't even using a lightsaber. So me noting that "And Sidious doesn't have Sith sword feats, so Ragnos wins" would be pretty stupid, correct? Since pretty much all of your "best arguments" do work like that, the audience may understand why I didn't want to continue that "debate".
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Is the paradigm you live by threatened by meanness of spirit? I'm sorry for that. Truly. Tell you what. After 5 years of sources and material, and armed with the knowledge I have now, we'll take a whack at retrospect:I and everyone back in 2005 who thought that a different way than what is accepted now, five years later, is (and was) WRONG. We owe everyone who challenge our opinions an apology. I owe birthoftheforce one. So, Rudy, you get birthoftheforce over here pronto so I can make amends for the tragedies of the past. God knows, when you learn your opinion was wrong in years past, you owe everyone who challenged it an apology. I just hope birthoftheforce can forgive me. My face is gonna be so red when he gets here.
Well whatchya waiting for, Rudy? Go get him!
???
My point is that birthoftheforce was right, and that you insulted him because he didn't go along with the "status quo" and was willing to think about the actual facts, just like Galieo.
[/quote]
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallYes, that's true? What's your point?
???My point is that birthoftheforce was right, and that you insulted him because he didn't go along with the "status quo" and was willing to think about the actual facts, just like Galieo.
EDIT: Wait, hold on a second, I wanna try your technique. *ahem*
"You didn't respond to my other points."
Sorry for the double post.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I stated what? That it doesn't make sense to put Sidious above Ragnos in a "most powerful Sith" list? Yes. Don't get me wrong: I also don't believe that it makes sense to put Ragnos above Sidious in such a list. Do you get it now?I can go on: I don't believe that it make sense to call Sidious more powerful than Luke - yet I don't believe it makes much sense to try and prove the opposite either.
See: I don't believe in the "only truth" the "only right interpretation" and the "absolute" in context of fictional works. Hence why I argue (at times) completely contradictionary positions (e.g. arguing Ancient Sith > Ragnos, arguing Yoda > Ancient Sith, arguing PT era Jedi > TOTJ era Jedi). Instead of people calling me out on "my opinion" I'd love if they'd take two seconds to think about my user title.
You always have your "best arguments" out and, much like Gideon in another thread, I think your "best arguments" can be replaced by a big pile of monkey crap without anybody noticing. As Gideon and I usually don't agree on many things, you may realize that there might be something true about the idea that you absolutely suck.
Do me a favor. Go to wikipedia or Google, enter "context" in the search and start reading. Shall I recap our debate for you? I pointed out that quotes are rather useless, if uttered by some in-universe-source (or even better: an unknown source) and proceeded to give you examples why. You were so kind to not get the point. The result:
You: "Vader thought Sidious was uber powerful"
Me: "Kreia thought that Ragnos was uber powerful"
You: "Yeah. Kreia thought that Ragnos was uber powerful. So what?"Do you notice something? The same is basically true for the "feats". Context. Starting a discussion with "Ragnos has no lightsaber feats so Sidious wins" probably isn't a smart move, is it? I mean: Ragnos isn't even using a lightsaber. So me noting that "And Sidious doesn't have Sith sword feats, so Ragnos wins" would be pretty stupid, correct? Since pretty much all of your "best arguments" do work like that, the audience may understand why I didn't want to continue that "debate".
1. You DID put Ragnos above Sidious and even said (ok, I'll admit that the following is probably exaggeration) that Siidous would get "smoked in seconds" by "any ancient sith" (???)
2. Don't make things up. You were fine with debating with me, stopped for a while, and then continued again for quite a while. Although you would make the occasional insult, you seemed to be in a pretty good mood. Then I submitted my latest rebuttal (not including me latest PM that asked you if you were going to respond) and was thinking "wow, I made a pretty good argument. I think I got Nai". Then you SUDDENLY stop responding.
3. Actually, from what I remember you mentioned the Kreia quote first. And the Vader quote is indeed more conclusive (not absolute, but closer than Kreia's) because:
Vader would know about Sidious, Ragnos and numerous other sith, whereas Kreia wouldn't know about Sidious or any other sith that came after Kreia's time.
Kreia lied a lot to the Exile.
HA substantial number of people here can't stand you specifically because you bring shit like this up every fvcking time you log on.
People were unwilling to accept my apology for making a spite thread (although you guys argued for the side that it was against while I argued for the right side, and you guys insulted me for arguing for the winning side) even though I went out of my way to make a whole thread apologizing and sent private messages to a lot of people apologizing as well.
Nobody.
Cares.
HI'm going to explain this to you once.
And making a spite thread that nobody seemed to recognize for half of the (very long) thread is not as stupid as arguing that Ragnos could somehow take...the entire Jedi Order????????????????????
When people join this forum, by and large, they are stupid. This phenomenon is attributable primarily to two factors: age and inexperience, which, as even you should understand, tend to come as a package. As of the beginning of this thread, I'd just finished the eighth grade. I'd never been in any sort of [semi]formal debate in my life. That isn't to say I'd never argued anything of significance, but I hadn't developed any notable capacity for consistent logical analysis and complex reasoning. This is the case for most of the people present now who joined in '05 or '06.
I can't speak for Janus, Illustrious, or some of the older members in this matter; considering the age gap and the fact that outside Star Wars - Sorgo and later the impossibly retarded dumbfvck known as tdtd aside - they'd established themselves early on as being far more capable logicians than I, I'm at a loss as to why they ever came to many of the conclusions they did.
For the most part, they're also no longer here. This is key, because it means the progenitors of the ideas in question aren't the ones you're harassing. When it comes to their reasoning and motivations, I'm a secondary source at best.
What I can tell you is that the authority and assertiveness they demonstrated, not to mention that they were easy to get along with if you were on their good side, made it very easy for the rest of us to slip into line with their mentality. The discrepancies between the movies and EU in terms of what was depicted as being "impressive" - throwing Senate pods vs. blowing up stars - and the manner in which this information was presented to us - I, at least, had never seen the material when I joined, and was familiarized with it only through selected scans and Wiki over the next few months - made it even easier. Add to that the fact that none of us had seen or heard of the passages or even sources that Lightsnake eventually brought to the table - meaning there was no competition to the ideas we worked with and therefore nothing challenging the status quo - and the line of thought expressed in this thread became, to us, perfectly justified. More than that, it became gospel. This is made evident in my earliest analysis of Lightsnake's case:
Me 2005The "logical analysis" in the long run... wasn't, but this should be clear enough: in those days, we didn't think like we do now. Janus and all the Antediluvians, myself included, Gideon, Lucien, Autokrat... that's simply how things were. Eventually, and I do mean eventually, everyone either came around or left.
The thing is, there isn't much presentable proof that goes against this. Most of [the resistance] is from a mindset that won't budge, and logical analysis.
Now, do you know how much of an incompetent moron you arewere when you joined? Do you understand how mind numbingly stupid most of the positions you take now are?
I suspect not.
In two or three years, by which point you'll hopefully have had the benefit of education, growth, and introspection, you'll probably facepalm your head off your shoulders. The rest of us all know how things were, we all got past it, and none of us care anymore. If you want to look back four or five years and mock the people who currently rape you routinely, that's your call.
But if you were genuinely looking for an answer, you just got as close to one as you're likely ever to get.
Now, given that I don't find you nearly as amusing as Gideon does, any response to this post not expressing a sentiment along the lines of "I understand" gets you put on Ignore. I don't have the patience for this anymore.