Would they be stronger

No, people always try to find loopholes in everything. Apparently it's human nature, but some people just can't admit that some things in life are ABSOLUTE. It's like gravity. It exists. You can't change it by wishing it didn't exist. Shut up and get a parachute. Passion is dangerous. It's pretty ****ing obvious, I mean, domestic violence is more common than a 120 IQ. But there's always people who are wishing reality were different, arguing... "Well, what about there being a neutral side of the Force?" or "Why can't jedi love?" or "Can I have my cake and eat it too?" No, the Force is either good or evil. If it was neutral, it wouldn't do anything, because being a source of life and power and yet not working for either good or evil is impossible. Jedi can love, they shouldn't form unhealthy attachments. The results are BAD. As in, not good. And no, you can't have both. Give it up already. GL's story is about power, and how it must be responsibly used. Why do you think Anakinw as meant to be so powerful and yet never realized that power? Because he took it for granted and misued it, and it consumed him. Period.

Here, go read Aesop's fables. If you don't get those, then you're helpless.

Originally posted by Lord Janus
No, the Force is either good or evil. If it was neutral, it wouldn't do anything, because being a source of life and power and yet not working for either good or evil is impossible.

LJ pretty much nails it there. You cannot go around trying to find general exceptions to something that GL has stated as an absolute. Any tales of married Jedi are contradicting GL and hence incorrect.

Jedi + attachment is simply wrong- and so I am sorry, but that means no marriages, and no love affairs (they should love in general, not specifically), and KOTOR has fundamentally struck out into the realm of contradicting canon in those areas- and to read Bindo's lines, it is simply because the writers did not understand GL.

They have a right to make their own interpretation, of course, but don't go thinking it is official. GL has already nailed that.

To remind people what GL said- when you have attachment, you have fear of losing that attachment. And we all know where fear leads.

Now, obviously, all Jedi would have fears of their friends being killed, or the Republic being destroyed. They aren't robots. But that's relatively ok.

But with love? Love is SO strong- as the people who like the champion its cause always say first. How can you ever actually seriously love them and NOT become seriously afraid to lose them?

And at the point you ARE seriously afraid... it becomes attachment too dangerous for a Jedi.

By the time you dilute the love enough so that it is safe for a Jedi because he would not be overly afraid... then it is no longer love any more.

That's the deal. With the true love comes the true fear of loss; that is an absolute, and Jedi must be forbidden from it.

Begin afraid to lose something can also give you strenght and saying passion is dangous is cr1p, there are no absolutes in this world even gravity has its so called loop holes. Passion can lead to angrue but it can also lead to other things. I bet even LJ has felt passion befire does that mean he is gonna bash someones head in?
Everybody happens strong emotions every day and we dont go round looping peoples heads of now do we, so why cant the jedi are they really that weak that they can't handle being in love, I strongly doubt it.

Just because some stuffy jedi a billion years ago says you shouldnt fall inlove doesnt mean it is right. Take the Catholic Church even they had to change there ways and allow there followers a choice so why would the Jedi?

No, it doesn't disagree with GL Ush, Jolee is giving his personal opinion which is different than the order, GL makes the point that the council frown eds upon love, where the individual can disagree.

Sorry Ushgarak and Janus but I have to throw some contradicition in here.

a) The Force:
The Force itself is neutral. "Good" and "evil" or "light" and "dark" are only defined by the individuals who use the force not by the force itself. It's like power in the normal world. "Power" itself is neutral and the people who use it make it look "good" or "evil".
As you see there is no "natural" dark side in the SW universe - nowhere. All places or animals who belong to the dark side where affected / created by individuals who used the dark side.
That is why the dark side is frightening as it is because it's no threat from the outside - each individual carries the potential to be good or evil within them. They decide for theirselfes.

b) Jedi and attachment:
The problem here is that most EU stories in which Jedi were married or fell in love with each other were released before the PT. In the OT there is no hint that an attachment would be bad for a Jedi as long as he doesn't forget what has to be done and it doesn't develop negative emotions. In ESB Luke thinks he has to go and rescue his friends (attachment) and Yoda didn't tell him that "the feelings for his friends will lead to the dark side" no he just says that Luke risks everything his friends have fought for by going and try to rescue them.

And for "love = bad" as an absolute. What do you think made Vader turn back to the light in ROTJ ? The love for his son. Or the love for his children as he told Luke to tell Leia that there was still something good left in him. So KotoR doesn't contradict the idea of SW or Lucas - in fact they use the same dramatical effect: Turning somebody from the dark back into the light with love as motivation.

But (from Jolees story) we also get to know that an attachment can lead to the dark side but it doesn't necessarily have to. Again it is a question how people deal with their feelings. Nomi Sunrider for example remained calm when her husband was killed - somebody like Anakin would have gone mad in the same situation. And please - you can't tell me that a Padawan won't develop an emotional connection to his Master who trained him for more than a decade again a question how you deal with it.
Imagine Anakin and Obi-Wan (both AotC) had fought against Darth Maul in TPM with Obi-Wan having Qui-Gons part and getting killed their. Anakin would again have gone mad where Obi-Wan in the same situation didn't.

So to answer the basical question:
Love or other emotional connections will make Jedi more vulnerable to the dark side so they can be considered as a problem. On the other handside they can be helpfull to turn them back if they'll ever will turn to the dark side. But there is no way love or emotional connections will make a Jedi stronger.

Fohl, you are the man.

The dark side is weird anyway, so what happens anyway? Do you get manipulated and lose a mind of your own or do you get consumed by hunger for power or something?

A little bit of both.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl

And for "love = bad" as an absolute. What do you think made Vader turn back to the light in ROTJ ? The love for his son. Or the love for his children as he told Luke to tell Leia that there was still something good left in him. So KotoR doesn't contradict the idea of SW or Lucas - in fact they use the same dramatical effect: Turning somebody from the dark back into the light with love as motivation.

No- wrong again.

ATTACHMENT equals an absolute bad, NOT just love. How many times do we need to make this distinction?

The kind of love that Anakin might have had for Luke was that of a father not a lover; he was not attached in the way you would be for a partner.

And he was redeemed by his son, but only because his son allowed him to reflect on his life. There is absolutely no indication that love for his suddenly turned him good- it certainly hadn't earlier. It was only at that last moment in ROTJ that he finally saw the truth of it all.

Yet if Vader has been attached to his son to the point of fearing to lose him... then yes, that would be just as wrong as love for a partner. Attachment would cause fear would bring the Dark Side. The logic cannot be escaped. It will bring you down, it will never help bring you up, for the Fear will still be there.

If you cannot let go of the attachment, and so the fear, you are doomed.

KOTOR absolutely contradicts Star Wars in that department. I am sorry but it simply does. It ignored what GL has to say on WHY attachment is bad for a Jedi.

It doesnt contradict, there acting on the part of individuals, and by the way, why did you shut down my topic? 😠

Acting on the part of inidivudals? What does that even mean? It makes no difference. The base of it all is wrong.

I don't know why people are so desperate to believe that attachment can be a positve thing in a Jedi's life. GL's override on this is absolutely clear- it can NOT be.

And KOTOR flirting around with Dark Siders turning good again is one of its problemns- a tired old EU cliche that detracts from the power of the films.

Its just like the movies, even though the council frowns upon it they do it anyway, the individuals think love is good, not the council, say what you want about me, but when you bad talk KotOR the gloves come off.

Well, that is CERTAINLY fanboyism.

The talk might come from the individuals, but the message is clearly from the game designers.

Yes, I am a KotOR fan-boy and proud of it. The council didn't approve in KotOR, the didn't send you out to find the first person you might want to have a relationship with. So, in that view, KotOR does not contradict GL.

KOTOR is thematically in favour of the possibility of positivity of love for a Jedi, of which the above is a symptomn. It is incorrect (or at least uncanonical) in doing so.

And Revan Souer, this isn't just Jedi dogma. It is acquired wisdom, and GL says it is correct- that was, in fact, the lesson he wanted to giove aout the danger of attachment.

It is wrong to take this thread too serious anyway in my opinion.
The whole dark side thing is just too unreal.

And the whole fanboyism term is 😘
If someone just can't convince then just ignore them, don't call it ffanboyism 😘

When someone says that you can insult them and its fine but insult KOTOR and the gloves come off, that is nothing to do with convincing. That IS fanboyism. So read more carefully in future.

How do you know Ush, have you talked to GL, when asked at C3, If he would consider doing something with KotOR he said he would strongly consider it.

No, I've just read what GL says, pretty simple.