Jesus: The Eyewitnesses
The writers of the New Testament either wrote as eyewitnesses of the events they described or they recorded eyewitness firsthand accounts of these events. Their personal attachment to the events are clear from statements they made such as the following:
"We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16 NIV)
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ." (1 John 1:1-3 NIV)
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus..." (Luke 1:1-3 NIV)
"In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:1-3 NIV)
"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." (1 Corinthians 15:6-8 NIV)
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:30-31 NIV)
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead." (Acts 10:39-42 NIV)
"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed..." (1 Peter 5:1 NIV)
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Acts 2:22 NIV)
"At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. 'You are out of your mind, Paul!' he shouted. 'Your great learning is driving you insane.' 'I am not insane, most excellent Festus,' Paul replied. 'What I am saying is true and reasonable. The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.' Then Agrippa said to Paul, 'Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?'" (Acts 26:24-28 NIV)
The writers of the New Testament also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The writers not only said, "Look we saw this," or "We heard that," but they turned the tables around and right in front of their most adverse critics said, "You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it." One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, "You know this also," because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them.
"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so if your faith. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead..." (1 Corinthians 15:14, 19-20 NIV)
If you are not willing to research such questions on your own--having spent the time reading this thread, and watching the video--I do not know what will.
Anyone with "unbius" views, realizes, that this thread is a great place to start their search for the truth. How many have reached such strong convictions--that Christianity is false--with limited knowledge escapes my mind. It may be false, but why is it so?
No pun intended; people dismiss Christianity frequently on this forum, but they have nothing "factual" to present--just empty statements based on emotion. I'm not trying to create friction between us all; I enjoy debating. I'm just interested in the facts. I'm only asking for people to be honest.
Originally posted by ushomefree
If you are not willing to research such questions on your own--having spent the time reading this thread, and watching the video--I do not know what will.Anyone with "unbius" views, realizes, that this thread is a great place to start their search for the truth. How many have reached such strong convictions--that Christianity is false--with limited knowledge escapes my mind. It may be false, but why is it so?
No pun intended; people dismiss Christianity frequently on this forum, but they have nothing "factual" to present--just empty statements based on emotion. I'm not trying to create friction between us all; I enjoy debating. I'm just interested in the facts. I'm only asking for people to be honest.
Unlike the first post... huge blocks of Bible Quotes - No thanks!
👆
Originally posted by ushomefree
If you are not willing to research such questions on your own--having spent the time reading this thread, and watching the video--I do not know what will.Anyone with "unbius" views, realizes, that this thread is a great place to start their search for the truth. How many have reached such strong convictions--that Christianity is false--with limited knowledge escapes my mind. It may be false, but why is it so?
No pun intended; people dismiss Christianity frequently on this forum, but they have nothing "factual" to present--just empty statements based on emotion. I'm not trying to create friction between us all; I enjoy debating. I'm just interested in the facts. I'm only asking for people to be honest.
I am not the one who has made an assumption; you are. You are assuming that the people who claim to have written the NT are the actual authors. It was a common practice at the time to write gospels and call them by the name of the person they are about as if they actually wrote them. Case in point, the Gnostic gospels. Please provide proof that, lets say Mark was written my Mark.
Please read
Originally posted by ushomefree
If you are not willing to research such questions on your own--having spent the time reading this thread, and watching the video--I do not know what will.Anyone with "unbius" views, realizes, that this thread is a great place to start their search for the truth. How many have reached such strong convictions--that Christianity is false--with limited knowledge escapes my mind. It may be false, but why is it so?
No pun intended; people dismiss Christianity frequently on this forum, but they have nothing "factual" to present--just empty statements based on emotion. I'm not trying to create friction between us all; I enjoy debating. I'm just interested in the facts. I'm only asking for people to be honest.
'Unbiased'
- Also, factual responses tend to get ignored or misinterpreted or are only partially answered by the hardcore Christian evangelists on this forum, who never seem to realize that very few on this site even care to be converted, or simply have enough knowledge to the contrary that they can easily dismiss Christian apologists. If you want to do God's work, go evangelize in the 3rd world where Christianity currently bolsters its population totals...the civilized world is starting to be way too intelligent to fall into blind faith.
- "this is a great place to start to search for the truth" ....I believe you want to help others, I just can't help but laugh at the audacity of people who seem to think that they have such a stranglehold on the truth just because they're so emotionally entrenched in a certain belief.
If think you need to read my post again, and be honest! No one has "explained away" the origins of Christianity.
The writers of the New Testament either wrote as eyewitnesses of the events they described or they recorded eyewitness firsthand accounts of these events. Their personal attachment to the events are clear from statements they made such as the following:
"We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16 NIV)
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ." (1 John 1:1-3 NIV)
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus..." (Luke 1:1-3 NIV)
"In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:1-3 NIV)
"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." (1 Corinthians 15:6-8 NIV)
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:30-31 NIV)
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead." (Acts 10:39-42 NIV)
"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed..." (1 Peter 5:1 NIV)
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Acts 2:22 NIV)
"At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. 'You are out of your mind, Paul!' he shouted. 'Your great learning is driving you insane.' 'I am not insane, most excellent Festus,' Paul replied. 'What I am saying is true and reasonable. The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.' Then Agrippa said to Paul, 'Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?'" (Acts 26:24-28 NIV)
The writers of the New Testament also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The writers not only said, "Look we saw this," or "We heard that," but they turned the tables around and right in front of their most adverse critics said, "You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it." One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, "You know this also," because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them.
"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so if your faith. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead..." (1 Corinthians 15:14, 19-20 NIV)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am not the one who has made an assumption; you are. You are assuming that the people who claim to have written the NT are the actual authors. It was a common practice at the time to write gospels and call them by the name of the person they are about as if they actually wrote them. Case in point, the Gnostic gospels. Please provide proof that, lets say Mark was written my Mark.Please read
Please read my post.
Originally posted by ushomefree
If think you need to read my post again, and be honest! No one has "explained away" the origins of Christianity.The writers of the New Testament either wrote as eyewitnesses of the events they described or they recorded eyewitness firsthand accounts of these events. Their personal attachment to the events are clear from statements they made such as the following:
[B]"We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16 NIV)
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ." (1 John 1:1-3 NIV)
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus..." (Luke 1:1-3 NIV)
"In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:1-3 NIV)
"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." (1 Corinthians 15:6-8 NIV)
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:30-31 NIV)
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead." (Acts 10:39-42 NIV)
"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed..." (1 Peter 5:1 NIV)
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Acts 2:22 NIV)
"At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. 'You are out of your mind, Paul!' he shouted. 'Your great learning is driving you insane.' 'I am not insane, most excellent Festus,' Paul replied. 'What I am saying is true and reasonable. The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.' Then Agrippa said to Paul, 'Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?'" (Acts 26:24-28 NIV)
The writers of the New Testament also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The writers not only said, "Look we saw this," or "We heard that," but they turned the tables around and right in front of their most adverse critics said, "You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it." One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, "You know this also," because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them.
"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so if your faith. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead..." (1 Corinthians 15:14, 19-20 NIV)
Ushomefree, my freind, what you seem to not understand is that you cannot use the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible.
There were plenty of books and religions written and practiced before the Bible. What makes the Bible valid, and the rest invalid ?
Originally posted by ushomefree
If think you need to read my post again, and be honest! No one has "explained away" the origins of Christianity.
Or there has been many theories on the origins of Christianity and it inevitably comes down to people saying "I have faith Christianity is real and faith can't be tested so..."
The writers of the New Testament either wrote as eyewitnesses of the events they described or they recorded eyewitness firsthand accounts of these events. Their personal attachment to the events are clear from statements they made such as the following:
Were the disciples writing chronicling things as they happened? Or after?
Out of interest say Lewis Carroll wrote Alice in Wonderland in first person and included a passage like this:
""I have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that I have seen fulfilled before me, just as they were seen by those who first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Simon..."
Would that mean it was true because the author who wrote the book inserted some words about how this is true. Could I in an debate say:
"Alice in Wonderland is clearly a work of fact, as the author himself has wrote within the book that it is a work of fact! If the book says that its contents are true then who are we to disagree?"
Or would you maybe want something to support the claim other then the author writing "it really is true, I saw it, and my writing says it is true and you can trust that because the book says you can trust it..."
The writers of the New Testament also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The writers not only said, "Look we saw this," or "We heard that," but they turned the tables around and right in front of their most adverse critics said, "You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it." One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, "You know this also," because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them.
Well I did not see them, nor did I see the critics knock them. Nor did I see the faithful tell the critics they saw these events as well.
Basically you are asking, if I am not wrong, to believe a version of events based in part on a writing that supports itself by including phrases saying "I am true! I am so true I was used against nameless critics who saw that I am true but for some reason didn't accept I am true."
If you are not willing to research such questions on your own--having spent the time reading this thread, and watching the video--I do not know what will.
And what of those whose research actually leads them in the opposite direction? Do you merely label them wrong? Are their views not worth considering?
Anyone with "unbius" views, realizes, that this thread is a great place to start their search for the truth. How many have reached such strong convictions--that Christianity is false--with limited knowledge escapes my mind. It may be false, but why is it so?
And that is a big flaw in such mindsets - that anybody who does not accept Christianity is automatically biased, because there is no way in the world an unbiased person would be able to disagree with what you say.
As such you don't have to listen to any counter argument as you can merely disregarded someone who doesn't believe as:
a. Biased. They have something against Christianity otherwise they would be Christian.
b. Ignorant. Clearly they have not read what you have read, because if they had there is no way they could disagree.
No pun intended; people dismiss Christianity frequently on this forum, but they have nothing "factual" to present--just empty statements based on emotion. I'm not trying to create friction between us all; I enjoy debating. I'm just interested in the facts. I'm only asking for people to be honest.
So since I was last here Christianity has, like an oil spout, started gushing factual evidence? Beyond "The Bible says stuff and it says that it is true because God had a part in its creation and you know this is true because the bible says it is true..."
Jesus Was Perfect?
FeceMan mentioned this before the topic I created was moved:
1 Peter 2:22-23
"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly."
and also
1 John :4-5
"4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin."
I did not mention anything about sinlessness. I said The bible never says that Jesus is perfect. Because even this is said:
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying.......that is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:46
Now "sinlessness" and perfectness are two different things. Losing your faith in God, even if temporary, is an "imperfection.
Way to twist my words 🤣