Well I'm gonna write a book too. I'm sure as time goes by it will be stated as crumbles of history just like there is not an actual writings of the Bible, then we shall see if my writings are in fact true or not when they crumble in the mist of time.
The Vatican has stated many times that they have the original writings. IF this is so, they why oh why haven't they been put on display? They have been asked multiple times by many sources including the public for reassurance.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, if you want to know about Christian mythology, then you go to a Pastor? Why not a priest?
Again missing the point.
The Priest or Pastor or Biblical Scholar (as well as anyone else that would apply, because I'm sure some idiot will try to continue the pattern) are all equally useful. For information about Jesus you should look in the Bible or ask an appropriately knowledgeable individual. In the same vein if one wants to know about the Third Age of Middle Earth one should read Tolkien's work or find an uber-geek.
The point is that whether you take the Bible as truth or not it is still the correct source of information on Jesus and Biblical figures. You can equivocate over whatever sort of shit you want to but in the end that much is a fact.
Originally posted by Deja~vuThe Vatican has stated many times that they have the original writings. IF this is so, they why oh why haven't they been put on display? They have been asked multiple times by many sources including the public for reassurance.
well the vatican also claims to have the skull of peter and many other useless relics so you cant always go by what the vatican says.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Again missing the point.The Priest or Pastor or Biblical Scholar (as well as anyone else that would apply, because I'm sure some idiot will try to continue the pattern) are all equally useful. For information about Jesus you should look in the Bible or ask an appropriately knowledgeable individual. In the same vein if one wants to know about the Third Age of Middle Earth one should read Tolkien's work or find an uber-geek.
The point is that whether you take the Bible as truth or not it is still the correct source of information on Jesus and Biblical figures. You can equivocate over whatever sort of shit you want to but in the end that much is a fact.
I'm not the one who missed the point. 😉 Maybe I should have said a Muslim or the pope.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually it does a very good job of proving how much the Bible contradicts itself.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosWe must be very precise here. First, a contradiction is claiming that two opposite things are true. It would be a contradiction for the Bible to claim, "Jesus is God" while simultaneously claiming, "Jesus is not God."
Mainly it's constant confusion about who Jesus is in relation to God.
The Bible does not claim this. Rather, it claims that, "Jesus is God," and, "Jesus is the son of God." This is not contradiction, but paradox and a nondual truth.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
We must be very precise here. First, a contradiction is claiming that two opposite things are true. It would be a contradiction for the Bible to claim, "Jesus is God" while simultaneously claiming, "Jesus is not God."The Bible does not claim this. Rather, it claims that, "Jesus is God," and, "Jesus is the son of God." This is not contradiction, but paradox and a nondual truth.
So, Jesus is both the father and son? How is that not a contradiction?
If it is a metaphor, then it is not a contradiction, but if it is literal, then it is a contradiction.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonAgain, contradiction is two opposite things claimed to be true. Simple example:
So, Jesus is both the father and son? How is that not a contradiction?If it is a metaphor, then it is not a contradiction, but if it is literal, then it is a contradiction.
Light behaves as a particle. Light does not behave as a particle.
Alternatively, a paradox is a nondual truth:
Light behaves as a particle. Light behaves as an EM wavelength. Both are attributes of light, yet both are true.
Again:
Originally posted by Acrosurge
It would be a contradiction for the Bible to claim, "Jesus is God" while simultaneously claiming, "Jesus is not God."The Bible does not claim this. Rather, it claims that, "Jesus is God," and, "Jesus is the son of God." This is not contradiction, but paradox and a nondual truth.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Again, contradiction is two opposite things claimed to be true. Simple example:Light behaves as a particle. Light does not behave as a particle.
Alternatively, a paradox is a nondual truth:
Light behaves as a particle. Light behaves as an EM wavelength. Both are attributes of light, yet both are true.
Again:
However, light does not do both at the same time.
How can a person be a father and their own son at the same time, if it is not a metaphor?
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonIncorrect. The modern theory to "define" light is "Wave-Particle Duality", in which light simultaneously exhibits both photon and wave characteristics.
However, light does not do both at the same time.How can a person be a father and their own son at the same time, if it is not a metaphor?
As for the second part of your post, and to use a very juvenile example; a creature that can reproduce asexually would have the capability to claim both "father" and "son". Thus, it remains a paradox, but not a contradiction.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Incorrect. The modern theory to "define" light is "Wave-Particle Duality", in which light simultaneously exhibits both photon and wave characteristics.To put things in a very juvenile terms; a creature that can reproduce asexually would have the capability to claim both "father" and "son". Thus, it remains a paradox.
So, Jesus was an amoeba? 😆
Are you saying that Jesus was both his own father and son in literal terms?
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonYou may suggest what you like.
So, Jesus was an amoeba? 😆Are you saying that Jesus was both his own father and son in literal terms?
All I'm pointing out is that the Biblical claim is a paradoxical one, not a contradictory statement.
Edit: Philosophy, not religion, will be the downfall of civilization. Either that or science. Or scientific philosophy. @_@
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Nope.All I'm pointing out is that the Biblical claim is a paradoxical one, not a contradictory statement.
OK, we are then not talking about the same thing.
A metaphor can be paradoxical or even contradictory and not loose it's point. However, a literal interpretation of Jesus being his own father and son can lead to a contradiction if you are strict in your literal interpretation. Therefore, the distinction between paradox and contradiction depends on the interpretation of what is meant my Jesus being the father and son.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonFrom a philosophical perspective, how is it a contradiction for a being apparently outside the limitations of humanity to be both father and son?
OK, we are then not talking about the same thing.A metaphor can be paradoxical or even contradictory and not loose it's point. However, a literal interpretation of Jesus being his own father and son can lead to a contradiction if you are strict in your literal interpretation. Therefore, the distinction between paradox and contradiction depends on the interpretation of what is meant my Jesus being the father and son.
Dare we revisit the Sci-Fi cliche of traveling backward in time and become one's own father (or grandfather?). This, too is paradox. And philosophy. Woohoo!
Originally posted by Acrosurge
From a philosophical perspective, how is it a contradiction for a being apparently outside the limitations of humanity to be both father and son?Dare we revisit the Sci-Fi cliche of traveling backward in time and become one's own father (or grandfather?). This, too is paradox. And philosophy. Woohoo!
I don't have a argument about paradox or contradiction, so I will concede that point. The argument I have is that a literal interpretation leads to a multitude of erroneous conclusions, and misses the metaphorical meaning that would be conveyed by a none literal interpretation.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They are locked away next to the writings of Jesus. 😉
Deep in the Vatican. 🙂
Originally posted by Jury
So what about the very thing which Jesus said about the Father... that He (the Father) [b]ALONE is the True God? Can we still suggest that the Son, being a separate person, is also God? [/B]
Re: Is God and Jesus the same person?
Originally posted by Jackie MalfoyTwo thoughts:
I am aware acouse that some relions think they are the same while others don't!Which makes it very confusing to me.
So what do you think and what are your thoughts on this?Remember there is no right or wrong answear!JM 😕 😮
Firstly, logic demands that there indeed be a "right" or "wrong" answer to your inquiry. If Jesus is who the Bible says He is, then to believe otherwise is wrong. Or if Jesus is other than the Bible says He is, and one adopts an alternative view of His life and nature, one could still be wrong. Right and wrong matters. Incidentally, that's not a rebuke -- just an observation. 🙂
Secondly, there is a sense in which you are asking two distinct questions -- or at least, I think you are. Question #1: "Is Jesus God?" Question #2: "Are Jesus and the Father the same Person?" The answer to the first question is a resounding YES. According to the Bible, Jesus is God -- equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The answer to the second question is a resounding NO. The Bible paints a picture of one God who exists eternally as three co-equal, co-divine Persons...the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. While Jesus shares a divine nature with the Father and the Spirit, He is a unique Person within the Godhead.