Jesus Christ

Again, Jesus Christ was GIVEN by God the qualities similar to God since God had GIVEN Him all the authorities in heaven and on earth. Only God can GIVE someone those authorities because those authorities are inherent to Him. On the other hand, no God can be GIVEN any authorities; for what is needed to be GIVEN to a God?

Wrong, he cant have all the qualities of God or even similar if he was created a little lower than the angels. He didnt get that authority until after he died.

With those authorities GIVEN by God to our Lord Jesus Christ, it is "by form" ... or "by nature" Christ was found as similar to God. As what I have emphasized earlier... it is not the literal sense that Christ was found in "by very nature God" ... since God is literally a Spirit and without form like Jesus had... the passage in Philippians only means that Jesus Christ has qualities GIVEN to Him by God. And since He had these qualities similar to God, Jesus still remained to be in a form of a "servant" - being obedient to God's will - this was the truest sense of HUMILITY.

Incorrect, that is absolutely not how the passage reads. The passage reads that he was found in the form of god and felt it not a robbery to be considered equal with God. But being made in human likeness, humbled himself. Having the form of God is clearly mentioned as having been before he humbled himself. Yet as a man, he was made lower than the angels from the beginning.

Remember that: There is only one God. If we think that Jesus as God and the One who incarnated into a human flesh, we would contradict the very truth that the Father is the only true God. When it is said that the Father is the ONLY true God, it tags the truth that the Son and the holy Spirit are not. And accepting without conceding that these three are parts of one God, why would Jesus declare that the Father is the only true God? Shouldn't He declare that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One true God if it is what the Bible is trying to say?

And to think that Jesus is God and took Himself in the form of a servant... contradicts your own contention that Jesus is not exactly God.

Nobody is arguing that there is more than one God, so there is no reason to maintain that argument. The son is the exact representation of the Father, he is not another God. The Father never changed either, never claimed that. Jesus humbled himself and the Father sends him. Thats why.

Jesus is the exact representation of, yet NOT the Father. So what exactly does that contradict? When I said he wasnt exactly God, again ive already explained why I said that. Beyond which, God is usually refered to as the Father and I wanted to make the distinction that Ive never called him the Father. Always the SON. 🙂

Originally posted by clickclick
Wrong, he cant have all the qualities of God or even similar if he was created a little lower than the angels. He didnt get that authority until after he died.

Incorrect, that is absolutely not how the passage reads. The passage reads that he was found in the form of god and felt it not a robbery to be considered equal with God. But being made in human likeness, humbled himself. Having the form of God is clearly mentioned as having been before he humbled himself. Yet as a man, he was made lower than the angels from the beginning.

Nobody is arguing that there is more than one God, so there is no reason to maintain that argument. The son is the exact representation of the Father, he is not another God. The Father never changed either, never claimed that. Jesus humbled himself and the Father sends him. Thats why.

Jesus is the exact representation of, yet NOT the Father. So what exactly does that contradict? When I said he wasnt exactly God, again ive already explained why I said that. Beyond which, God is usually refered to as the Father and I wanted to make the distinction that Ive never called him the Father. Always the SON. 🙂

As to how Jesus Christ had the authorities in heaven and on earth, also He had the supremacy over all things under God... the Bible has explained that. And I have posted things about it already. And after that, I remember, all you can say was ... WRONG.

Well, it seemed that you haven't discovered the mystery of God's will yet.. I can't blame you if you don't believe that Jesus Christ has given all those authorities and made supreme over all things in heaven and on earth.

🙂

Originally posted by Jury
🙄 So, the mystery of God's will didn't matter on you, that is.

As to how Jesus Christ had the authorities in heaven and on earth, also He had the supremacy over all things under God... the Bible has explained that. And I have posted things about it already. And after that, I remember, all you can say was ... WRONG.

Well, it seemed that you haven't discovered the mystery of God's will yet.. I can't blame you if you don't believe that Jesus Christ has given all those authorities and made supreme over all things in heaven and on earth.

🙂

I sincerly hope that this wasnt your response to my last post. Blahaha, you gotta be kidding me. 😆

Lets go over this again and no you most certainly havent addressed this.

This is the passage in its correct transulation.

"5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Now, it says that he was in the form of God, thought it not roberry to be equal with God but took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. Now, this clearly shows a progression over time and a changing from one to another. Yet if Jesus Christ had no prior existence as the word or the Son, how was he ever in the form of God? Since his creation on earth, he was always in the form of a servant. He was made a little lower than the angels, period.

So whenever you want to address that, let me know. As has been mentioned by another. The Father created everything through the Son/Word, as is stated in the bible. The word was the creator himself though, as has been mentioned numerous times in the bible. We have confirmation as to WHO the word was. Though you actually came back and said that the word/plan to send Jesus christ is being refered to as the plan to send jesus christ in revelations. 😆

As to Jesus Christ having authority over all things that have been created, try re-reading my post instead of talking NONSENSE.

🙄 I already have addressed that several pages back. And my contention remains the same. 🙂 All you can say was .. it is WRONG... because it didn't suit your own interpretation.

Again, I cannot go beyond what is written. Jesus was found in the very nature God yet made Himself in the likeness of a servant. It didn't mean that God became a man. 🙂

Again, Philippians 2 has no contention that God became a man like what you are pursuing into. It proclaims that Jesus, having qualities GIVEN to Him by God [makes Him like God - but doesn't imply that Jesus is claiming to be God] - yet He chose to become similar to a servant until His death on the cross. This is what we ought to follow: Christ's HUMILITY.

Jesus, from the time He was born, already had the glory of God as being superior to everything. God made Jesus worthy to be worshipped not because He is God.. but this is what God has commanded His people.

God made Christ supreme to everything, yet God put [subject] Christ under Him so that God would be all in all. This is about the mystery of God's will. 🙂 The very thing you haven't recognized yet that's why you still have tricked by the absurdity of the man-made Trinity. 🙂

And your personal interpretation in Philippians 2 never changes the Biblical truth that it was God our Father who created everything in heaven and on earth... which you declared WRONG. 🙄

Sorry, but I cannot do otherwise as proclaimed by the Prophet Malachi and the Apostle Paul.

"Grace and peace to God our Father and to our Lord Jesus Christ."

🙂

Jesus, from the time He was born, already had the glory of God as being superior to everything. God made Jesus worthy to be worshipped not because He is God.. but this is what God has commanded His people.

The bible says that he was made a little lower than the angels. So clearly, your contention that he was like that since he was born is wrong.

Made a little lower than the angels but superior to everything?

Your contention doesnt follow suit with scripture.

If you cant even address this now, how do you believe you addressed this "several pages ago?"

And your personal interpretation in Philippians 2 never changes the Biblical truth that it was God our Father who created everything in heaven and on earth... which you declared WRONG.

Actually, it does not say that. It clearly says numerous times that it was through the word and by the word that everything was created. Nowhere does it say that the word was a plan. That is your interpreation and doesnt change biblical truth. Just as it is your interpretation/neglection that the life that was in the word wasnt really life.

God made Christ supreme to everything, yet God put [subject] Christ under Him so that God would be all in all. This is about the mystery of God's will. smile The very thing you haven't recognized yet that's why you still have tricked by the absurdity of the man-made Trinity.

More absurdity from you? You are entirely full of it. I already previously mentioned that the Father put everything that was created under Jesus Christ. In fact I quoted that passage a long time ago.

Originally posted by clickclick
The bible says that he was made a little lower than the angels. So clearly, your contention that he was like that since he was born is wrong.

Made a little lower than the angels but superior to everything?

Your contention doesnt follow suit with scripture.

If you cant even address this now, how do you believe you addressed this "several pages ago?"

And in Jesus birth, the angels already called Him "Lord". He was not yet born, but His glory and supremacy over everything were already proclaimed.

🙂

Originally posted by clickclick
Actually, it does not say that. It clearly says numerous times that it was through the word and by the word that everything was created. Nowhere does it say that the word was a plan. That is your interpreation and doesnt change biblical truth. Just as it is your interpretation/neglection that the life that was in the word wasnt really life.

Apostle Paul also declared that God created the heaven, the earth, the sea and everything in them... as I said this God was introduced to us by the same apostle in the opening of his letters.. is none other than - "God our Father".

Is "God our Father" the Son? 🙂

Again, God created everything THROUGH the Word, FOR the Word, and BY the Word. But it doesn't mean that the Word literally created everything.

Again, the Word [abstract essense] is about Christ, not necessarily the Son or the Christ Himself [corporeal essense].

In this Word was life. And this life is the light of the world.

Again, since Christ is the fulfillment of the Word by virtue of God's pronouncements when He [the God] foreknown Him [the Christ] before the foundation of the world... Christ therefore was called the Word of God. Christ is also the Life and the Light of the world.

And as part of God's will, He created the world or everything THROUGH Christ. FOR Christ, and BY Christ. But it does not mean that Christ Himself literally created everything.

🙂

CHRONICLES

The problem of the relationship between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ became an acute problem in the Church soon after the cessation of persecution. In Western Europe, Tertullian for example, insisted upon the unity of essence in three personalities as the correct interpretation of the Trinity. Hence, the dispute centered in the (Catholic) Church has always had to fight Unitarian conceptions of Christ…

In 318 or 319, Alexander, the bishop of Alexandria, discussed with his presbyters ‘The Unity of the Trinity’. One of the presbyters, Arius an ascetic scholar and popular preacher, attacked the sermon because he believed that it failed to uphold a distinction among the persons in Godhead… Arius, who was backed by Eusebius of Nicomedia (to be distinguished from Eusebius of Caesarea) and a minority of those present, insisted that Christ had not existed from all eternity but had a beginning by the creative act of God prior to time. He believed that Christ was of a different (heteros) essence or substance than the Father. Because of the virtue of His life and His obedience to God’s will, Christ was to be considered divine. But Arius believed that Christ was a being, created out of nothing, subordinate to the Father and of a different essence from the Father. To Arius He was divine but not deity.

- Earle E. Cairns
Christianity Through the Centuries
pp. 142-143

Originally posted by Jury
Actually, when Jesus Christ was not yet born, He already had the glory that the government shall be upon His shoulder.

And in Jesus birth, the angels already called Him "Lord". He was not yet born, but His glory and supremacy over everything were already proclaimed.

🙂

According to you he already had glory despite not actually existing. Still though, that doesnt explain this. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, he was made mortal like the rest of man. It wasnt until after his ressurection that everything was put under him.

So how was he in the form of God and equal with God yet a servant? Because thats what he was before his death.

Originally posted by clickclick
According to you he already had glory despite not actually existing. Still though, that doesnt explain this. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, he was made mortal like the rest of man. It wasnt until after his ressurection that everything was put under him.

So how was he in the form of God and equal with God yet a servant? Because thats what he was before his death.

Again, He was in the form of God yet chose to become a servant to God - being obedient to God's will. And before He died, God already had delivered all things to Him. So He already had everything even before He died.

How was he in the form of God yet a little lower than the angels? Do you not see how that does not work? It says that he was in the form of God, then he became a man and then he died but because of his humility he was exalted to the highest place in heaven.

Where does it say that he had everything under him before he died? If he was in the form of God, he most certainly couldnt die. Only in the form of Man was that possible and as you yourself have said he was always a man.

Originally posted by clickclick
How was he in the form of God yet a little lower than the angels? Do you not see how that does not work? It says that he was in the form of God, then he became a man and then he died but because of his humility he was exalted to the highest place in heaven.

Where does it say that he had everything under him before he died and if so, how did he manage to do? If he was in the form of God, he most certainly couldnt die. Only in the form of Man was that possible and as you yourself have said he was always a man.

All things have been delivered to Him by God even before He died. It was a part of the mystery of God's will to put everything under Christ so as making peace.

🙂

Again, Christ was in the form of God - He had everything God had given Him - yet, He chose to be obedient in God's will.

All things have been delivered to Him by God even before He died. It was a part of the mystery of God's will to put everything under Christ so as making peace.

You are singing a tune that just isnt there. If he was created a little lower than the angels, how was he in the form of God?

Also, please quote the passage that states all things were given to him before death. Not that it changes the above, but still.

Jesus Christ was found in the form of God yet He chose to be in a likeness of a servant.

And I have already posted a biblical passage saying that God our Father [and Christ's Father] has delivered all things to Jesus Christ, as He Himself proclaimed.

🙂

Jesus Christ was found in the form of God yet He chose to be in a likeness of a servant.

And I have already posted a biblical passage saying that God our Father [and Christ's Father] has delivered all things to Jesus Christ, as He Himself proclaimed.

You are repeating the same tune but not using supporting evidence. We arent in disagreement that the Father put everything created under Christ. The question becomes when, which you contend was before his death. So I asked you for biblical support.

Secondly, if he was created a little below the angels than he most certainly was not found in the form of God. Nice try though. 🙂

If he was created below the angels, than he was always a servant until death. Which is in keeping with the bible but your explanation doesnt follow.

Again, I already have addressed that before. Christ Himself proclaimed that God has delivered all things to Him... when did He say this? That was before He died on the cross... at the time He was still preaching God's words.

Again, Paul's letter to the Philippians has nothing to do to prove that the Son Himself, Jesus Christ created everything... Nothing in the Bible will contradict the pronouncement of Prophet Malachi that God our Father is the One God who created us.

🙂

Again, I already have addressed that before. Christ Himself proclaimed that God has delivered all things to Him... when did He say this? That was before He died on the cross... at the time He was still preaching God's words.

Still waiting for you to quote scripture. Saying God proclaimed is not the same as saying, he delivered all things to him. Jesus still had to die for starters. Even when Satan was tempting him, Satan was saying he would give him authority over the earth. This is again in keeping with Jesus being created below the angels (as is said in the bible) and absolutely not in accordance with what you are stating.

JOHN 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

Who is the ruler of the world? Satan.

Im still waiting for you to quote the passage that says that everything was under Jesus Christ before he died.

Again, Paul's letter to the Philippians has nothing to do to prove that the Son Himself, Jesus Christ created everything... Nothing in the Bible will contradict the pronouncement of Prophet Malachi that God our Father is the One God who created us.

Jesus Christ? That was the name given to him on earth. No, it says that the WORd created everything actually. Which does contradict your claim that it was the Father. It was by the word (doesnt say Father) that everything was created. The Father for instance can be the one who founded something and it was through and by the word that it happend.

“In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.” Hebrews 1:1, 2

Right here it says the Father made the universe through him. Your contention that what Malachi said agrees with you are saying just doesnt hold. 😉

On the subject of Jesus being created below the angels, here is some biblical scripture.

You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet.’ In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.” Hebrews 2:7-9

Notice the distinction, WAS made a little lower than the angels but is NOW crowned with glory and honor.... BECAUSE he suffered death.

which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” Ephesians 1:20-23

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation (Gr.-charakter) of his being (hupostaseos), sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.” Hebrews 1:3

When did God place all things under him?

By definition God must've placed all things under him, because He is the creator, BUT he loves all things under him. God is love of himself and everything else.

"5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Now again on the subject of this passage. He was in the form of God but took upon the form of a servant AND was made in the likeness of men. What did he do being found NOW in the fashion as a man? He humbled himself and became obedient ( a servant) unto death.

Now as the bible clearly states, he was MADE a little lower than the angels. Since when? Since his creation. When was he created? When he was made in the likeness of men. So when was he in the form of God and how did he take upon the form of a servant? When the Word became Flesh. Why did the word become Flesh? So that he may taste death for everyone. Interesting.

Which again, does the bible not say in him was life? Does the bible not say that the Son was the alpha? 🙄

“He also says, ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:10-12

Now I recall you trying to dimiss this passage but to no proper avail. Who is the speaker in this passage? Obviously the Lord God, as has been noted when the author asks who did the Lord say this to.

🙂