Top 10 NBA players

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
myth, i was talking about last year's suns team. last year the suns almost beat the mavs to get to the finals they did not have amare due to injury, and neither johnson nor richardson. instead, diaw, bell, and kurt thomas. not such a great team, huh? i'd say those sonics had more talent than the 2006 playoff suns. the suns just played so great, mostly because of nash. so in the end, nash is better, unless you are a fan of a hitchhiker who barely did a thing last year and still got a ring.

The point was, Nash had a better team in 2005 than Payton had in 1996 and Payton got his team to the finals while Nash couldn't.

As for: "unless you are a fan of a hitchhiker who barely did a thing last year and still got a ring"
Don't forget we are arguing prime, not last year.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
myth, i was talking about last year's suns team. last year the suns almost beat the mavs to get to the finals. they did not have amare due to injury, and neither johnson nor richardson. instead, diaw, bell, and kurt thomas. not such a great team, huh? i'd say those sonics had more talent than the 2006 playoff suns. the suns just played so great, mostly because of nash. so in the end, nash is better, unless you are a fan of a hitchhiker who barely did a thing last year and still got a ring.

Diaw = Great Player who never got any minutes and was expected to have a breakout season and IMO is better then anyone on those Sonics teams not named Payton or Kemp
Bell = Good Player
Thomas = Okay player that fits well in the Suns system

Originally posted by Myth
The point was, Nash had a better team in 2005 than Payton had in 1996 and Payton got his team to the finals while Nash couldn't.

As for: "unless you are a fan of a hitchhiker who barely did a thing last year and still got a ring"
Don't forget we are arguing prime, not last year.

yeah, but my point was the suns were within a shot of making the finals LAST YEAR (keyword= last year) not 2 years ago, last year, with the not so powerful team they had.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
yeah, but my point was the suns were within a shot of making the finals LAST YEAR (keyword= last year) not 2 years ago, last year, with the not so powerful team they had.

But if Nash is so great, why couldn't he get the better team to the finals?

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
yeah, but my point was the suns were within a shot of making the finals LAST YEAR (keyword= last year) not 2 years ago, last year, with the not so powerful team they had.

Oh, and how do you get the idea that they were within a shot of the finals last year? It only went to game 6. They also had an easier path to get to the conference finals. They should have played (and lost to) the Mavs in the 2nd round. Instead they got to play an inferior Clippers team, which it took them 7 games (as well as 7 to beat the Lakers). Not necessarily superior teams with playoff experience.

it was a close series with the mavs. they should have won game 6, but again because of their lack of depth, they were exhausted, while the mavs were rested. i didnt mean literally ONE SHOT away, i meant it was close.

them playing seven games in 2 series combined with the fact that their bench was so shallow all contributes to the fact that they ran out of gas at the end and lost to the mavs in game 6, and the clippers played really well, dont underestimate them.

besides nash and marion, i wouldnt call the suns such a great squad last year. not necessarily the better team.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110

them playing seven games in 2 series combined with the fact that their bench was so shallow all contributes to the fact that they ran out of gas at the end and lost to the mavs in game 6, and the clippers played really well, dont underestimate them.

I'm not saying the Cippers are bad. What I'm saying is that they are easier than who they should have been against (Mavs). The Suns were fortunate to get a fairly easy path to the conference finals and would not have done so had the seeding been set up correctly.

besides nash and marion, i wouldnt call the suns such a great squad last year. not necessarily the better team.

I'm not saying the Suns had a great squad last year, besides those two. But it wasn't terrible either. They had good complimentary players.

Also, earlier somebody said Payton was never an MVP candidate. Not true. He consistently was around 6th place in voting with the exception of 1998 when he was 3rd.... to Jordan and Malone.
Also, MVP voting in the days of Payton's prime were completely bias against point guards. Stockton one year had 17.2ppg, 14.5ast, 2.7stls, 3.5to, and 51.42FG%. Nash's first MVP came with 15.5ppg, 11.5ast, 1.0stl, 3.3to, and 50.17FG%. Pretty much Nash got MVPs for passing, which Stockton did better. But do you know what that bias against PGs got Stockton in the MVP voting that year? Nineth f*cking place.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
myth, i was talking about last year's suns team. last year the suns almost beat the mavs to get to the finals. they did not have amare due to injury, and neither johnson nor richardson. instead, diaw, bell, and kurt thomas. not such a great team, huh? i'd say those sonics had more talent than the 2006 playoff suns. the suns just played so great, mostly because of nash. so in the end, nash is better, unless you are a fan of a hitchhiker who barely did a thing last year and still got a ring.

True that, true that, true do do do that.

Remember Diaw only was good because of nash, without Nash Diaw is trash. Same goes for 99.9% of the rest of the 05-06 Suns team. Take Nash off that team and put prime GP in there and they dont make the playoffs.

Originally posted by Myth
I'm not saying the Cippers are bad. What I'm saying is that they are easier than who they should have been against (Mavs). The Suns were fortunate to get a fairly easy path to the conference finals and would not have done so had the seeding been set up correctly.

I'm not saying the Suns had a great squad last year, besides those two. But it wasn't terrible either. They had good complimentary players.

yeah, and so were the sonics. especially when they went to the finals.

Originally posted by Myth
Also, earlier somebody said Payton was never an MVP candidate. Not true. He consistently was around 6th place in voting with the exception of 1998 when he was 3rd.... to Jordan and Malone.
Also, MVP voting in the days of Payton's prime were completely bias against point guards. Stockton one year had 17.2ppg, 14.5ast, 2.7stls, 3.5to, and 51.42FG%. Nash's first MVP came with 15.5ppg, 11.5ast, 1.0stl, 3.3to, and 50.17FG%. Pretty much Nash got MVPs for passing, which Stockton did better. But do you know what that bias against PGs got Stockton in the MVP voting that year? Nineth f*cking place.

ok, then i guess stockton had more comptetion with the MVP trophy, considering he was playing in jordan's era, but that still doesnt justfy GP being a better point guard than nash. i still think nash is better than GP's prime and if GP was playing in his prime today, i still think nash would beat him in the MVP race.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
True that, true that, true do do do that.

Remember Diaw only was good because of nash, without Nash Diaw is trash. Same goes for 99.9% of the rest of the 05-06 Suns team. Take Nash off that team and put prime GP in there and they dont make the playoffs.

Actually, Diaw's numbers were almost exactly half of what they were before. He then got twice the amount of playing time, and therefore his numbers doubled. And you seem to have forgotten that GP pretty much single handedly led the Sonics to the playoffs.

(Just as a reminder) I respect that you guys feel Nash is better, but I still don't believe it.

ok, then i guess stockton had more comptetion with the MVP trophy, considering he was playing in jordan's era

Don't forget, Payton's prime was when Jordan's Bulls were dominating, so it wasn't just Stockton who played in "Jordan's era." Did you miss that Payton lost to JORDAN AND MALONE. No way would Nash have beat them.

I also think its pretty odd that you guys don't seem to think Payton played the point the way a PG should. He averaged like 9 assists per game several seasons which is a "whopping" 1.5 less than Nash's 2nd MVP performance. Payton also turned the ball over less that season (2.7 vs 3.5) which is 3.30 vs 3.00 assts/to ratio. Btw, he did that while averaging 24.2ppg (compared to 18.8 which is 5.4 less).

I don't think that payton didnt play the way a PG should, I just think that nash better exemplifies a true PG, which in my book is all about leadership, sportsmanship (as in no trash talking like GP did), not so much who scored more points, but who took fewer shots for the benefit of their teammates, and who made more shots consistently (percentages), you get my drift? I know that its sorta their job to do it, but you can hear nash's teammates compliment him so often on how good he leads and composes the team. everyone of his teammates feels so comfortable playing with him. THATS one of the main reasons why players like boris diaw had breakout years.

I agree Nash is more of a "pure PG," but I don't think Payton's style hindered his team in anyway, which is why he was able to lead his team to the Finals (plus I believe its better to be an all around player).

Anyway, this is obviously going to be an agree to disagree situation, so I'll leave you to your opinion.

alright, thats fine with me. 🙂

I love how we are able to debate in a civil manner. 🙂

true, no hard feelings. but with some other people it's impossible to be civil.

Yeah, especially when all he did was repeat things I said in a nicer manner.

😆

😆 That was rich. Repeat what you said? Then my responses would have looked like " 🤣 " rather than actually putting logic and facts behind my opinion.

😆

Originally posted by Myth
😆 That was rich. Repeat what you said? Then my responses would have looked like " 🤣 " rather than actually putting logic and facts behind my opinion.

Well let's see, you repeated the whole point on competition/MVP race, you repeated the point on Diaw only needing playing time, and you repeated the much better scorer slightly worse passer points. You just didn't have the pleasure of having the Nash is a better scorer garbage thrown in your face over and over again.