Originally posted by RecSpecs110
ok, then shareef abdur-rahim should be up there, because what...it's only the CAREER that matters, oh, i get it. So, you're saying lebron and wade shouldn't be up there because everything spectacular they have done is too current for your ass. ok. so, now you give the tremendous edge to veterans, whereas in the other thread, the older=the worse, ok, gotcha. and if karl malone was still in the league today averaging 3 points and 3 rebounds, then he should still be in the top 10, because its only his CAREER that matters, huh. and shaq should definately be #1, doesnt matter how bad he plays.your logic is like a pretzel, you know that?
To Myth: I don't take stats too seriously. I know that mourning does a lot of intangible things that don't show up on the stat sheet. but to mention his name among top 10 players is rediculous. if he wasnt such a sissy to huddle behind wade and shaq, and eventually win a title that he didnt deserve, then maybe i would give the jackass some respect. but the way he handles tender situations and ditches people so easily scares me. so, since i despise mourning, when people mention his name in a TOP 10 list, i just want to use stats (rightfully) and prove that the coward is nowhere near the top 10.
To the first part, I think you took what B dot said out of context. I know that guy has made some dumbass remarks, but that really wasn't one of them.
To the part to me, sounds good. I missed the part about the top 10 list. You are absolutely right about Zo not being near top 10.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
But you're talking about in there prime not their accomplishments. Of coure GP accomplished more since hes been in the league for forever(retire already).Ill take Tmac as the more talented overall in his prime over GP
T-Mac's prime never got him out of the 1st round 😬
Plus it is only on one side of the court while Payton was more complete.
Just for the record, I'm saying Payton's prime is better IMO. I am in no way claiming its ridiculous to claim otherwise.
Look at how long it took GP to win a title, and he wasnt even a factor in the championship series. As a matter of fact, he was needed for the Heat in the championship series as much as Darko was needed in Detroits run. ❌
But I cant really use that since Tmac hasnt won a title yet, but just showing how useless that man has become.
I actually get angry when old timers intentionally go to a championship calibur team, just to win a title, and end up being as useful as a drink umbrella in a rain storm.
I agree. Thats part of the reason I was rooting for Dallas over Miami. They didn't have anybody who was brought along for the ride.
But don't forget, when Payton was in his prime he led his team to the finals and may have been able to win it had he not gone against the Bulls (the 96 Bulls for that matter).
Originally posted by Myth
I agree. Thats part of the reason I was rooting for Dallas over Miami. They didn't have anybody who was brought along for the ride.But don't forget, when Payton was in his prime he led his team to the finals and may have been able to win it had he not gone against the Bulls (the 96 Bulls for that matter).
I know man, its getting ridiculous. I hope none of the current superstars that havent won a title do, I dont want to lose respect for them. Like KG, Tmac, Carter, etc..Right now I have too much respect for them but if they end being like Karl Malone or Gary Payton Im going to lose almost all of it. Can you truly say that you won a title when you do that? More like, I was on the team that won the title.
I really despise GP for when he was on the Lakers. We were actually counting on him to contribute, but I guess he thought he was just going to join the team and do nothing, ride the tails of Kobe and Shaq on his way to his first title. LOL that goes for Karl Malone too. When Shaq left, that ass didnt even want to rejoin the team. I was just disgusted seeing him on the sideline in a suit, scouting to see if the Lakers were championship calibur or not, so he could make a decision to return or not. I dont want to come off as inconsiderate, with that being said, im glad he retired without a championship 💃
I'm glad Malone retired without a championship as well. I'm glad Payton got one, just not the way he did. However, I don't see Payton's following of championship calibor teams as severe. He was pissed when the Lakers traded him, even after he knew that the Lakers were no longer champion contendors. Then after complaining about being in Boston (because of location, not championship quality), he then began to enjoy himself with the Celtics and even re-signed rather than skipping over to another team. He obviously ended up going to the Heat, but this time I think his friendship with Shaq was just as important to him as the quality of the team.
OMG, i totally agree with you guys. i was just about to expand on what you said. i told Myth earlier about my view on "hitchhiking" players who just go to good teams with tremendous paycuts to just step back and let the superstars do the dirty work, and they too get championship rings. i also think it's ridiculous. I dislike the way payton and malone did that with the lakers and also payton with the heat. and ESPECIALLY mourning (grrr....), i cant express in words how much i hate that guy. i was too rooting for dallas like crazy, but in the end ❌ tisk, tisk, tisk, very dissapointing. Dallas HAD IT, goddamn it! they won the first 2 by 10 points or more, and then lost 4 in a row. And out of miami's 4 wins: 3 of them were by 3 points or less. (sigh) took me a long time to get over it.
Originally posted by RecSpecs110
OMG, i totally agree with you guys. i was just about to expand on what you said. i told Myth earlier about my view on "hitchhiking" players who just go to good teams with tremendous paycuts to just step back and let the superstars do the dirty work, and they too get championship rings. i also think it's ridiculous. I dislike the way payton and malone did that with the lakers and also payton with the heat. and ESPECIALLY mourning (grrr....), i cant express in words how much i hate that guy. i was too rooting for dallas like crazy, but in the end ❌ tisk, tisk, tisk, very dissapointing. Dallas HAD IT, goddamn it! they won the first 2 by 10 points or more, and then lost 4 in a row. And out of miami's 4 wins: 3 of them were by 3 points or less. (sigh) took me a long time to get over it.
RIDICULOUS how Miami won, considering how many turnovers they were averaging each game. I share your hate for ZO BTW
Dallas had it, but in my eyes, they played way too conservative when they got a lead. They would start wasting the clock in the 3rd quarter 😕 and passing up good shots for the sake of running down the clock and end up taking horrible shots at the buzzard.
Thats why teams always came back on them. Look at SA in game 7, and Miami in game 3.
Thats why Dallas couldnt hold a lead, I blame that on Avery Johnsons gameplan.
Originally posted by RecSpecs110
😆 😆 😆 💃 💃 💃 Alright, now (laugh) OK, now, i've heard it all. C-webb>Shaq. Wow...you dont have to be funny in order to be a comedian. just go up to a bunch of NBA fans and say that outloud, so that everybody can hear. (ow, my cheeks are hurting from laughter)
That's using your STATS > EVERYTHING LOLOLOLOLOLOL logic.
GP is better than Nash in everything but shooting and passing. hmmm...is that not the 2 main things a point guard needs to excel at.
Nope MANAGING the floor is what a point guard needs to excel at, which GP in his prime absolutely kills Nash in as he had the ability to manage BOTH ends of the ball..
. GP a much better scorer?????? What are you kidding me? he may have averaged more points, but nash has a better career FG %, 3 point FG %, AND FT %.
You do realise you could say the same thing about Nash when comparing him to Kobe
and in terms of passing, nash>>>>>>payton.
*is convinced you just started watching the NBA 2 years ago*
Wow, thats gotta be the lamest excuse i've ever heard. GP was never even CONSIDERED mvp material.
*is convinced you just started watching the NBA 2 years ago*
And you saying Nash has no competition? Cough...kobe, lebron, iverson, still garnett, dirk, and dwyane...Cough
IVO = not even on a Playoff calibur team.
Kobe = on a barely playoff calibur team.
LeBron = your one good example
Garnett = not even on a Playoff calibur team
Dirk = Not even close to Shaq and them in their peak
Dwyane = on the same team as Shaq.
Originally posted by B dot Rob
That's using your STATS > EVERYTHING LOLOLOLOLOLOL logic.Nope MANAGING the floor is what a point guard needs to excel at, which GP in his prime absolutely kills Nash in as he had the ability to manage BOTH ends of the ball..
You do realise you could say the same thing about Nash when comparing him to Kobe
*is convinced you just started watching the NBA 2 years ago*
IVO = not even on a Playoff calibur team.
Kobe = on a barely playoff calibur team.
LeBron = your one good example
Garnett = not even on a Playoff calibur team
Dirk = Not even close to Shaq and them in their peak
Dwyane = on the same team as Shaq.
Actually, using stats, shaq averaged better #'s than webber last year or any previous year. pretty much defeats your point.
yeah, and MANAGING the floor has a lot to do with making your players around you better, and having them confortable around you, which nash is better than payton at doing. and about defense, you sorta have to factor in the fact that the suns team is about run and gun and not playing much defense. it's not so much that nash is a bad defender. he just doesnt focus on defense much, because his team is not commited to defense.
about kobe, not true, because kobe is a sg, not a pg, so his main roles are different. you cant compare two different players with different roles and styles. and he holds #'s that are unbelievable, so that compensates for his lower %'s, which are actually not that much worse than Nash's. payton on the other hand does not average outstanding #'s, and simultaneously, he averages A LOT worse %'s than Nash.
*is convinced you only watch basketball in your wildest dreams*
what do playoff calibur teams have to do with one's potential to become MVP? If the guys today played their best when payton was at his prime, payton would have absolutely no chance of getting MVP. Nash had to work really hard to become MVP (especially twice), due to the popularity factor. People could have easily picked LeBron or Dwyane with their supreme seasons, but nash earned his popularity and defenitely deserved to win it both times, changing the suns completely into a dominant force, which completely lacked prior to his arrival.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
RIDICULOUS how Miami won, considering how many turnovers they were averaging each game. I share your hate for ZO BTWDallas had it, but in my eyes, they played way too conservative when they got a lead. They would start wasting the clock in the 3rd quarter 😕 and passing up good shots for the sake of running down the clock and end up taking horrible shots at the buzzard.
Thats why teams always came back on them. Look at SA in game 7, and Miami in game 3.
Thats why Dallas couldnt hold a lead, I blame that on Avery Johnsons gameplan.
i noticed that as well. dallas couldnt finish teams off until the very end, or not at all. it had a lot to do with their inexperience. (especially josh howard for stupidly calling their last timeout in the middle of free throws.)
something i like to add, at he end of game 6, when jason terry took that last shot, i knew he would miss, because he was so off that night. so right after wade missed those 2 free throws to give dallas a chance, i was praying, "dont shoot it jet, dont shoot it, please dont shoot it," and what happens? he shoots an off balanced shot. and even worse, stack was WIDE open to his right, and he was the one who actually shot well that night.