Punisher vs. Batman Villians

Originally posted by Beyonder
...rather than reading through your long post newjak86. I'll just say Punisher wins by blowing them up with a rocket launcher. 😄

Originally posted by newjak86

Oh Sentry what if the gasses cause him to see his family dying before his eyes he's going to drop to his kness and cry.

What if...

Hypothetical...

Originally posted by Sentry
What if...

Hypothetical...

Trouble is, Frank doesn't really HAVE a fear. He already thinks of himself as dead and has nothing to live for (therefore, nothing to lose). He's even BEEN DEAD ONCE ALREADY, for crying out loud!

Even if Scarecrow gassed him, I'm honestly not convinced it'd do anything. And if it forced him to relive his family's death, he'd just become MORE angry and MORE dangerous.

I agree with that completely.

Also, the argument that Batman's villians operate on a different mental level is total bunk. You've got guys who carve dummies and think the dummies are really their bosses giving friggin' Batman trouble -- he ain't all that. A dippy blonde (don't get me wrong; I love Harley ... BUT) who slept her way to a degree and a job at Arkham and promptly got brainwashed by the Joker was able to give Batman trouble. Killer Croc can give Batman trouble, and all he is is basically a very underpowered Russian with sharper teeth and probably less intelligence.

A goofy nerd (and yes, that's his actual background!) who GIVES CLUES TO HIS CRIMES gives Batman trouble!!!

Batman. Is. Not. That. Great.

And Batman's ROGUES are so punk that he's able to beat them consistently even though he refuses to use lethal force and goes out of his way NEVER to kill them (and even to save their lives ... repeatedly).

All of this, and you people are seriously arguing that a man capable of beating the likes of Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine -- repeatedly -- while taking care NEVER to kill or permanently injure them -- DESPITE THE FACT THAT HIS SPECIALTY IS LETHAL COMBAT, NOT NON-LETHAL LIKE THEIRS ... that this man can't win against Batman's rogues when he's not holding back the way he does against Spidey, DD and the rest (who, in turn, would also have no trouble handling Batman's rogues)?

Give. Me. A. Break.

Originally posted by Orestes
Trouble is, Frank doesn't really HAVE a fear. He already thinks of himself as dead and has nothing to live for (therefore, nothing to lose). He's even BEEN DEAD ONCE ALREADY, for crying out loud!

Even if Scarecrow gassed him, I'm honestly not convinced it'd do anything. And if it forced him to relive his family's death, he'd just become MORE angry and MORE dangerous.

Originally posted by Orestes
Also, the argument that Batman's villians operate on a different mental level is total bunk. You've got guys who carve dummies and think the dummies are really their bosses giving friggin' Batman trouble -- he ain't all that. A dippy blonde (don't get me wrong; I love Harley ... BUT) who slept her way to a degree and a job at Arkham and promptly got brainwashed by the Joker was able to give Batman trouble. Killer Croc can give Batman trouble, and all he is is basically a very underpowered Russian with sharper teeth and probably less intelligence.

A goofy nerd (and yes, that's his actual background!) who GIVES CLUES TO HIS CRIMES gives Batman trouble!!!

Batman. Is. Not. That. Great.

And Batman's ROGUES are so punk that he's able to beat them consistently even though he refuses to use lethal force and goes out of his way NEVER to kill them (and even to save their lives ... repeatedly).

All of this, and you people are seriously arguing that a man capable of beating the likes of Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine -- repeatedly -- while taking care NEVER to kill or permanently injure them -- DESPITE THE FACT THAT HIS SPECIALTY IS LETHAL COMBAT, NOT NON-LETHAL LIKE THEIRS ... that this man can't win against Batman's rogues when he's not holding back the way he does against Spidey, DD and the rest (who, in turn, would also have no trouble handling Batman's rogues)?

Give. Me. A. Break.

No, I'm talking about the character as a whole. You know, as opposed to someone who read, say, Tower of Babel and went, "OMFG BATMAN CAN TAKE THE WHOLE JLA HES GOD!!!!1!1"

At his best, with one-sided unilateral prep-time, tons of extreme technology at his disposal and years to put plans together, Batman can concoct a plan to beat the JLA. Big freakin' deal. So could Frank. So could a lot of people. Hell, I bet *I* could.

At his worst, Batman has, in fact, consistently had serious trouble with some pretty questionable villians.

You can say what you want about me, but it isn't going to change the simple facts.

Originally posted by newjak86
Not really as that are what the gasses do bring about your worst fears and pain.

People react to pain and fear in different ways. This is something I have learned working in a place that people go to to get scared. . .

I even had someone that I scared try to make out with me. . . It was weird.

Originally posted by Orestes
No, I'm talking about the character as a whole. You know, as opposed to someone who read, say, Tower of Babel and went, "OMFG BATMAN CAN TAKE THE WHOLE JLA HES GOD!!!!1!1"

At his best, with one-sided unilateral prep-time, tons of extreme technology at his disposal and years to put plans together, Batman can concoct a plan to beat the JLA. Big freakin' deal. So could Frank. So could a lot of people. Hell, I bet *I* could.

At his worst, Batman has, in fact, consistently had serious trouble with some pretty questionable villians.

You can say what you want about me, but it isn't going to change the simple facts.

Originally posted by Juntai
The least of Batman's enemies makes Frank's mob bosses look weak, in fact, the mob bosses move out when they come through. So where does that leave that..?

I wouldn't compare what passes for a "Mafia" in Gotham to what's in Frank's NYC. Frank takes on the kinds of people who wouldn't "kid around," so to speak, with the Joker. They'd just put two in the back of the clown's head without a second's thought and move on.

Just my opinion, of course, but it's as valid as your stated opinion, for all that either has been proven (which, of course, neither has). So now we're back once again to square one and the fact that Batman still has trouble with the likes of a love-struck, brainwashed blonde who just overnight decided to be a villian and a goofy nerd in even goofier getup who deliberately leaves clues. While, meanwhile, Frank is able to take down (not always, of course) the likes of Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine ... all the while taking care to hold back and not kill them.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing what Batman's rogues are going to do that's so freaking amazing. Much of their actual power lies in the fact that Batman isn't going to try to kill them, and THEY KNOW IT. They can even get away with getting downright chatty with him at times, where against Frank, they'd be too busy trying to dive behind cover as he wordlessly opened fire.

When the world believed Frank killed Nick Fury, the ENTIRE S.H.I.E.L.D. of NY was hunting him and he's still around.

Originally posted by Orestes
I wouldn't compare what passes for a "Mafia" in Gotham to what's in Frank's NYC. Frank takes on the kinds of people who wouldn't "kid around," so to speak, with the Joker. They'd just put two in the back of the clown's head without a second's thought and move on.

Just my opinion, of course, but it's as valid as your stated opinion, for all that either has been proven (which, of course, neither has). So now we're back once again to square one and the fact that Batman still has trouble with the likes of a love-struck, brainwashed blonde who just overnight decided to be a villian and a goofy nerd in even goofier getup who deliberately leaves clues. While, meanwhile, Frank is able to take down (not always, of course) the likes of Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine ... all the while taking care to hold back and not kill them.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing what Batman's rogues are going to do that's so freaking amazing. Much of their actual power lies in the fact that Batman isn't going to try to kill them, and THEY KNOW IT. They can even get away with getting downright chatty with him at times, where against Frank, they'd be too busy trying to dive behind cover as he wordlessly opened fire.

Originally posted by K3VIL
When the world believed Frank killed Nick Fury, the ENTIRE S.H.I.E.L.D. of NY was hunting him and he's still around.

Originally posted by Draco69
They all die. Except maybe Clayface.

Originally posted by Juntai
what I said wasn't an opinion, it's fact, in Batman's world, mob bosses are next to nothing when the villains move through. Might as well be henchmen or dead. What's Frank going to do against Ras and the League of Shadows? Clayface? Shit, Bane is doper than Punisher, he carries m60 sized guns like pistols.

Once again, your OP-IN-ION is that the "mob bosses" in Batman's world can even be compared to the ones in Frank's. Mine is that they cannot. Mine is that the people Frank takes on (and kills -- usually easily -- by the way) on a regular basis would not put up with Joker. They wouldn't laugh at his jokes. They wouldn't panic just because he has a gun and some gas and dresses funny. They wouldn't even tolerate him. Ditto (and double) for the Riddler.

But again, that's MY opinion, which is no more or less valid than yours. Since we've once again moved past that (and for the last time, I hope), we're back to square one. The League of Shadows ... League of Shadows?? Don't you mean League of Assassins? Unless you're basing your understanding of Batman and R'as al Ghul off of Batman Begins ...?

But against the League of ASSASSINS? Well you know, I'm pretty sure Punisher would do the same friggin' thing Batman would do, only much more permanently and with guns. R'as himself is just a trumped-up mob boss with a bit more vision than a mob boss typically has (okay, and a much longer lifespan ... lol 😉 ). Sure, he "almost beat" the JLA, but he did it using Batman's second-hand borrowed plans (the same plans Batman needed years of one-sided unilateral prep-time to devise) that his daughter stole for him. It's not like HE PERSONALLY actually did all that much.

Clayface? Yeah, that'd be a good fight. That's one of the few who would.

Ditto for Bane ... but then, Bane's just a watered-down Russian physically (albiet smarter).

So yeah, those two would be a challenge. R'as would be too, in all honesty. But most of the rest of Batman's rogues are basically loonies who are only still alive because Batman refuses to kill no matter how insane it is not to.

Seriously.

It seems like some posters havn't even looked in the direction of a Punisher comic.

The guy is lethal. Extremely lethal.

Not trying to denigrate Batman or his methods here...the guy is an icon who does his work as best he can. He just has a psychological block to killing someone, and he's been unable to get around it - the murder of his parents just appears before his eyes. It's a weakness not fully exploited by Gotham's criminals, but his closest foes have it in the back of their minds. It must pain him because of the Joker - the man may have a complete breakdown someday beause of J's enormous body count, knowing the only true solution, should be permanent! In Hush, he is finally getting over that block, and the Joker is freaking out because he can feel it - Bats is going to kill him. Now. Only Gordon, at gun-point, saves the Joker.
Even if Punisher can take down all the major crime figures in Gotham, which I think he can, doesn't mean Gotham gets any safer. New types emerge - the standard ones Frank would know, from New York.

Originally posted by newjak86
You guys are making Punisher out to be a one man army well he is but still this is no cake walk. Yes he shoots yes he kills so does Batman's villians. They operate on a whole other level in terms of what Frank is used to.
First what would Frank do start taking out the little people which would alert the big fishes then what chance does Frank have.

Originally posted by K3VIL
When the world believed Frank killed Nick Fury, the ENTIRE S.H.I.E.L.D. of NY was hunting him and he's still around.