Also take into account as stated many of times, the darkside is the easy way out.
You talk about lightsabers. Let's say on a damage scale from 1 to 10, lightsabers are somewhere in the faccinity of 4.
Force Lightning is most deffinitly a 9, thereby one blast could snuffout anyone in an instant. The darkside prides itself in "pumping the volume up to 11" and utterly anniahlating the opponent. Where as the Jedi try to teach discipline, cunning, and resourcefulness. So they don't HAVE to rely on easy streaks and dumb luck..
Spelljammer: I wasn't really talking about lightning, which can be fairly easily rationalized as being inherently "dark" power, so you're missing my point altogether.
Ushgarak: ... okay, whatever. Make yourself happy. 🙄 Moving on ...
Fishy: That's actually a pretty good rationalization for it. Although it wouldn't work for Star Wars D20 (at least not without house rules), which matters to me since I happen to play that game. 😉 But the trouble even there is that choking -- or at least CONTROLLED choking -- could easily be used for good. It could be used to de-escalate a confrontation with minimal violence and absolutely zero killing or even pemanent harm needed. By contrast, a lightsaber can almost NEVER be used in that manner -- it's one of the most inherently lethal weapons in the Star Wars universe. It's ONLY good for killing -- or, at a bare minimum, dismembering -- and NEVER for ending a confrontation without causing death or permanent harm.
(And yes, you could end a confrontation without violence by THREATENING with a lightsaber, but you could as easily do that with the Force itself, so that's meaningless. I'm saying that a lightsaber could not be used ACTIVELY to avoid violence, while choking COULD be.)
Man, I have NO idea why you place Lightning so much better than sabres, SJ, when the films clearly show the opposite to be true.
And yes, you are right about the Sabre, Orestes. Like all proper weapons, it has only one useful purpose, and that is to kill. That Jedi carry them says a lot about their job.
Originally posted by Fishy
No, good Jedi can not use lightning. Powerful Jedi perhapsPowerful lightside force uers can (probably), but using lightning is against the Jedi Code. And you wouldn't be a good Jedi if you use it anymore..
There are Jedi and there are Sith. They're both exact opposites of each other. One's good and one's evil. Jedi are good and Sith are evil. Do you agree?
Since we agree that Jedi are "Good", then a powerful Jedi is "Good" also.
So with that said, can you clarify for me what you mean then by saying "Good" Jedi cannot use lightning but powerful Jedi can? Both are good aren't they? But it seems that your implying "Good" powerful Jedi can perhaps use lightning, just not a regular "Good" Jedi? I'm a bit perplexed by your statement as it's comes across as a bit contradictory. And thats beside the fact that your only adding to my "yes" answer in a way by saying powerful Jedi / powerful light-side force users can use lightning.
And as for Jedi not using lightning because it's against the Code is irrelevant, as I have already stated. Didn't you read my conclusive statement on the matter a few posts up regarding the moral issue? Or don't you just get it.
It's against the Law to use a stolen credit card? Yes. Do I have I the ability to use the stolen credit card. Yes. Is it against the Code to use lightning? Yes. Do Jedi have the ability to use lightning, whether it's immoral or not, Yes. Again, morality isn't the question. The ability is. Don't get it twisted.
Depends on how you see good in this post. Good Jedi as Jedi that follow the code, or Good Jedi as in Jedi that are on the lightside.
A powerful Jedi does not have to follow the code and can still be a bad Jedi.
I know thats probably not what you meant when you asked if a Good Jedi can use lightning, but its still true. A good Jedi can not use lightning a Jedi can perhaps.. Although you could doubt if he or she is a Jedi then.
And they might have the ability, assuming you don't have to learn for it. If you have to learn for it then they simply can not do it. Because learning the technique would probably mean drawing on the Dark Side and thus drawing them closer and closer to the Dark Side.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Man, I have NO idea why you place Lightning so much better than sabres, SJ, when the films clearly show the opposite to be true.And yes, you are right about the Sabre, Orestes. Like all proper weapons, it has only one useful purpose, and that is to kill. That Jedi carry them says a lot about their job.
What you're saying makes half-sense.
I think light-sabers are used not only to kill (offense) but for other purposes as well, like for example, among many other things, defense, like deflecting blaster blots or force lightning or other light-sabers.
To say light-sabers have "only one useful purpose, and that is to kill." is just not fully correct and very limiting.
Originally posted by Orestes
Spelljammer: I wasn't really talking about lightning, which can be fairly easily rationalized as being inherently "dark" power, so you're missing my point altogether.Ushgarak: ... okay, whatever. Make yourself happy. 🙄 Moving on ...
Fishy: That's actually a pretty good rationalization for it. Although it wouldn't work for Star Wars D20 (at least not without house rules), which matters to me since I happen to play that game. 😉 But the trouble even there is that choking -- or at least CONTROLLED choking -- could easily be used for good. It could be used to de-escalate a confrontation with minimal violence and absolutely zero killing or even pemanent harm needed. By contrast, a lightsaber can almost NEVER be used in that manner -- it's one of the most inherently lethal weapons in the Star Wars universe. It's ONLY good for killing -- or, at a bare minimum, dismembering -- and NEVER for ending a confrontation without causing death or permanent harm.
(And yes, you could end a confrontation without violence by THREATENING with a lightsaber, but you could as easily do that with the Force itself, so that's meaningless. I'm saying that a lightsaber could not be used ACTIVELY to avoid violence, while choking COULD be.)
Choking a aggressive power. It is meant to damage, it's meant to hurt people or kill them. Choke has no other use except for hurting; Force Push can be used various ways, smae with a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a last resort for Jedi after the Ruusan Reform; this was a last minute weapon. And they would not try to kill at all unless forced. A Dark Sider would try to kill or injure someone as well as they can. And also a Lightsaber ca nbe used to intimate and avoid fighting, and it can also be used to remove obstacles.
Their ability to reflect blaster bolts is only a compliment to their use as a deadly weapon! It allows their bearers to close to range and kill. That is their useful purpose. It is what they are designed for. A singular design gives a better purpose and that is theirs.
If you want to concentrate on defence, build a shield. But a sabre is a weapon, amke no mistake about it. If you draw it, it is because you are prepared to kill.
I just picture it as yet another technique without a real meaning. But where does it say that it is against the jedi code to use it anyway?
As a point for it being an evil ability, you can't really picture it as an attack or defending power but as a torturing ability instead wich is unnecessary and evil!
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
It's against the Law to use a stolen credit card? Yes. Do I have I the ability to use the stolen credit card. Yes. Is it against the Code to use lightning? Yes. Do Jedi have the ability to use lightning, whether it's immoral or not, Yes. Again, morality isn't the question. The ability is. Don't get it twisted.
And just as you will be punished by the law too for using a credit card that isn't your's. So too will karma destroy your inner being if you use Force Lightning.
Originally posted by Fishy
Depends on how you see good in this post. Good Jedi as Jedi that follow the code, or Good Jedi as in Jedi that are on the lightside.A powerful Jedi does not have to follow the code and can still be a bad Jedi.
I know thats probably not what you meant when you asked if a Good Jedi can use lightning, but its still true. A good Jedi can not use lightning a Jedi can perhaps.. Although you could doubt if he or she is a Jedi then.
And they might have the ability, assuming you don't have to learn for it. If you have to learn for it then they simply can not do it. Because learning the technique would probably mean drawing on the Dark Side and thus drawing them closer and closer to the Dark Side.
lol, what?
Look, Fishy, understand this. To be a Jedi of any kind, whether you're a good Jedi, a Jedi Jedi, a Jedi that's on the lightside or Jedi that follows the Code, is to be good. For the plain and simple fact that merely you're a Jedi. That's it. If you have Jedi as your title, you're good, period. Frankly, they're all the same, to me.
And I still think a Good Jedi can use Force lighting because A Good Jedi has the force, the main ingredient needed to harness lightning.
And don't get me wrong, Fishy, I understand what you mean by how it would make a Jedi not "Good" if he were to use lightning because it is a Darkside Force that can only be obtained by becoming a bad Jedi, ergo you cant use force lightning if your a good person therefore a "Good" Jedi cannot use Force lightning. But I say you're wrong. Good Jedi can use lightning because "Good" Jedi of high level may use any Force ability, light or dark, according to their wisdom, since their high experience averts them from slanting toward the Dark.
4 examples of "Good" Jedi, regular and high level, using lightning to their advantage:
1. Yoda in Ep.2, when he deflected Dooku's bolt back directly at him,as an attack.
2. Mace Windu in Ep.3, when he deflected Sidious's lightning back at Sidious. And don't say the deflection was the result of lighting coming into contact with the lightsaber's laser because if that were the case, Dooku's lightning strike against Obi Wan would've been automatically deflected. Mace controlled that s***.
3. Luke's wife, Jedi Mara Jade, and
4 Kyle Katarn from "Jedi Knight" .and "Academy" as well, too.
lol will this ever end?
The Lightsaber a Tool? Right.
The Jedi don't carry the Lightsaber on them as a "Last resort" or to "Open a can of beans". Do the Police carry their gun for a tool? Didn't think so. The Lightsaber is there for usage of dismembering others and/or killing others for a last resort.
Saying that the Jedi don't use Force lightning may be a wee bit out of proportion just because they didn't use it the movies.
Sorgo, no Jedi used Force Lightning in the movies. Only the Sith did! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! HAXXXXXXXXX!
I didn't see a Jedi use Force Pull in the movies. Does this mean they don't use it generally?
Wait, i have only seen Jedi use mind trick. Maybe ONLY JEDI USE IT! *GASP* 😱
There is not a single drop of proof that Jedi do not use Force Lightning.
C'mon now, Sorgo! Force Lightning is an aggressive Force Power! Jeez...
Right, and force push isn't? Or force pull isn't? Or force choke isn't? Hell, if a Jedi violently pushes an opponent into a wall and cracks their head open, i suppose Force push remains nonlethal?
But the Jedi use Lightsabers!
SORGO! OMFG! THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!
Can anyone really prove that there is a divine difference between a Lightsaber and Force Lightning?
Lightning can kill people. The Lightsaber can kill people.
Sorgo, lightning is a very torturous force. It tortures people before killing them!
Now i could easily torture someone with a lightsaber. Shoving it up their ass, grading it along their arm and cutting them open....
If you use the force to throw a Lightsaber into a crowd, and you use force lightning into a crowd. Which one is gonna kill more people? THE LIGHTSABER!
You throw lightning into a crowd, sure it is gonna shock a few people, maybe kill two or three, and some residue electricity may pass on to someone else in the crowd.
You throw a Lightsaber, your slashing limbs off, killing people rapidly, and seriously injuring people. You're gonna kill a minimum of ten to fifteen people. Plus, the Lightsaber has to come back to you. 😈
Apparently, the Jedi have the Lightsaber as an essential part of their order and code, but apparently having a numerous array of Force powers that are harmful and an extremely hot and fatal Sword on them makes them somewhat restricted to use something that may not even be fatal on occasion.
What the f*ck?
Does anyone ever think that the Jedi may not use it in the movies to restrict themselves from destroying or frying someone? Or maybe they do not wish to use it because of it's apparent "Torturable nature"?
The difference between knowing how to use it and/or being allowed to use it is bigger than Oprah.
Maybe they know how to use it, but aren't allowed. In a situation where a Jedi may need to use restrictions to win a fight (EX: Kenobi shooting Grievous) if they are not allowed to use it, they may do so. Because any Jedi isn't stupid enough to let themselves die over the Jedi Code.
Or they may be allowed to use it, but just never found it necessary in their fighting tactics.
Who knows.
Originally posted by Spelljammer
The Jedi follow thier code which is more sacred then the law.And just as you will be punished by the law too for using a credit card that isn't your's. So too will karma destroy your inner being if you use Force Lightning.
Oh boy, another one. Is today, Dumb-Day or am I just being mind-tricked by the Moderator, lol cause I dont get it with some of the posters in here, honstly.
Ok, first off i thought it unskillful of you to initially use the sanctity of the Jedi Code against Law only to use Law as a defensible reason in your next statement. Using backstabber statements like that ARE SPCULATIVE
Originally posted by Spelljammer
The Jedi follow thier code which is more sacred then the law.And just as you will be punished by the law too for using a credit card that isn't your's. So too will karma destroy your inner being if you use Force Lightning.
Oh boy, another one. Is today Dumb-Day or is the Moderator using a mind trick on me, lol cause i don't get some of the posters in here, honestly.
Ok, 1st off, I thought it unskillful of you to use the sanctity of the Jedi Code against Law only for you to use it as a defensible reason in your next statement, turning your post an 2 incompatible analogy.
Using Backstabber statements like that, not matter how wordy or pompous, are not only speculative but also make you look incredulous as well.
I dunno. Did i make the question too complicated? Even though I have my factual answer, the question only ask for a yes or no answer. Thats it. lol
Well duh, that's all you've been saying the entire thread..
"That's subjective"
"It's all relative"
It's all darkside bullshit. Which is precisely why you feel the need to justify Force Lightning in the first place. I'm sure Palpatine thought it was all relative too when he convinced the universe to give up everything they knew about freedom and morality and bow down to the empire.. i'd say to learn to accept what is, and who you are, but then if you did, you wouldn't be darkside. The darkside has to lie, cheat, and find ways to make one second guess the will of The Force. If they didn't, they wouldn't be darkside, and if they weren't darkside, they wouldn't have to do it. Life can be answered so simplisticaly. Only those who have blocked themselves from hearing The Force think in complexity..
Originally posted by Sorgo
The Lightsaber a Tool? Right.I didn't see a Jedi use Force Pull in the movies. Does this mean they don't use it generally?
Actually, Sorgo, the Force pull technique is used by the Jedi all over all 6 of the Star Wars films.
Well, in my opinion it is at least. It also depends on what you consider Force pull, even though the word itself makes it simply obvious to what it is and actually does.
When Jedi summon their lightsabers from an unreachable distance, would you consider that Force pull?
And Sorge, not trying to bust your chops or no one else's for that matter as I am in agreement with you even if your path towards the idea is at a different area than mine but we're still headed in the same direction towards the same point.