On Geonosis...

If I gave a rats ass who Jett was, I'd ask, but Mundi was facing away from then, heard there guns charge, turned right when they fired. God, the only Lightsider to escape THAT barage and live is....................?

Ki Adi Mundi had time to block... Oh wait, he did block a few shots before his shitty Lightsaber skills caught up with him. SHAZAM!

I wasn't talking about the Jedi in Palpatines office, they got owned, only cause Lucas needed them out of the way for Mace and Palps to fight.

Don't go by the script. It means nothing. We are talking about the SWU. Well, i was talking about the Prequel Jedi. I don't know where the hell you are. The Jedi Masters got owned. Bottom line. It's all due to the fact that they suck arse.

And since we don't actually know how EVERY single Jedi was killed, we can't say anything about THEM can we?
Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.

And did you ever think that maybe because for once, the Dark Side was more poweful than the light? Does that still make the Jedi weak? Literally 1000's of years of Force domination in the galaxy and NOW they start to wane. Ever consider that maybe, the Dark Side just might be stronger than they are this time. Still doesn't mean they sharply declined and the Dark's barely any better.

Right... Of course.

And again, as part of the script, Vader HAD to lose.
Oh my god... Anyone can go into the script. The point is he lost to his son with three years of Lightsaber experience. Stop going outside the box, buddy. It just degrades your arguement to shit.

If he didn't than Luke would've fallen, or died. The Hero in this story was pre-written to live for the audience's favour. FOUR f*ckin years of training. Four against like 40. It's bullshit.

It isn't bullshit. It happened.

Vader put up a better fight against a crippled old man, there was more MOVING of the limbs in ESB. In ROTJ, did you see how cumbersome those two were fighting? Wildly swinging and barely blocking. That is NOT Jedi fighting.

Oh my god... An excuse? Provide proof that he degraded from ESB to ROTJ.

Lucas is out there reading this, and laughing his ass off.

He certainly is.

Are you trying to suggest that Luke, a half-trained Padawan whose only accomplishment was beating his crippled, emotionally confused father, is a better Jedi than the ones who died at Geonosis?

This whole concept is so stupid I don't even know how my brain can try and encompass it. All this retarded talk of shitty lightsabre skills... something wrong with yuor eyews? or your brain, not seeing how the film is CLEARLY presenting things- i.e. the Jedi are all elite warriors who can take on many times their own number but cannot fight entire armies alone?

And you bash them for not seeing the Conspiracy? In case uyou hadn;t noticed, the Jedi don't actually have a movie screen to sit in front off and have all the events happily explained to them. In fact they were living in a Galaxy where the great power of the Dark Side was specifically hiding all of this from them. And you assume that powerful Jedi should be able to see through that. Why? What makes you think that? This power of the Sith is clearly presented as unstoppable.

But all things considered... I'm sorry, but it is this implication that their sabre skills were poor that gets me. What freaking right do you make the benchmark against, that fighting several hundred times your number for half an hour before finally being worn down and killed, reflecting laser blasts all that time, is somehow evidence of poor sabreing? Ok, so only the very best survived. How does that make the ones who died bad, in any wasy, just because the survivors were the best?

Do you want to go out and do any better? Or, from a different view, do you want to go and do Nick Gilliard's job, as in interview he clearly said that the main thing about the arena scene was to show just how good Jedi were with Lightsabres. I think he showed just that; your eyesight is obviously off the mark here.

My God, this is the pits, it really is. The only thing ever worse than this idea is the 'Qui-Gon was Sifo-Dyas' one.

Watch the films properly, because this truly is feeble. It is going agaionst everything that is presented to us. You could only twist your head to this POV by having some desperate desire to want the PT JEdi to be bad. Well sorry- but that is not one iota supported on-screen.

No ush, seriously...

They were still Jedi that by themselves makes them good. But you have to admit that their lightsaber training was limited and weak. That so many Jedi practiced a weak form means that a shit load of Jedi didn't think it was important to learn the best of the best forms. Why not? Because obviously they felt they wouldn't need it.

In ancient times, everybody tried to learn the great forms because itw as necessary without it you couldn't survive, thats what makes the PT Jedi weka. Peace. It has made them lazy, without conflict they had nothing to test themselves against and no reason to improve. They were never challenged, so of course they wouldn't be as good as the older one's who were constantly living with fights threats and wars.

PT Jedi were weak, period. They practiced diplomacy and speechcraft over combat skills and Force mastery. They were ignorant, corrupt, and insufficient to protect a Republic that was falling-apart.

It would have been hard for anybody to protect a republic that has not seen a challenge in a thousand years. Take the war to the republic and it is bound to fall someway or another.

But still, you are right about the rest it made them weaker that in combination with the relative low amount of lightsaber wielding opponents. Most of them never faced a lightsaber wielder for live or dead. And those that did almost all died. Only Obi Wan, Anakin and Yoda survived an encounter with an actual Sith.

Yoda who couldn't finish off one Sith Lord
Obi Wan who got pwned by Dooku twice
And Anakin who became a Sith Lord himself.

the PT Jedi weren't good enough fighters to stand against the ancients who trained. They would have lost from many warrior races that the ancients did defeat or fight. Would those Jedi have been around at the time of the Mandelorian wars then the Mandelorians would have won the war.

Originally posted by Sorgo
[B]If I gave a rats ass who Jett was, I'd ask, but Mundi was facing away from then, heard there guns charge, turned right when they fired. God, the only Lightsider to escape THAT barage and live is....................?

Ki Adi Mundi had time to block... Oh wait, he did block a few shots before his shitty Lightsaber skills caught up with him. SHAZAM!

I wasn't talking about the Jedi in Palpatines office, they got owned, only cause Lucas needed them out of the way for Mace and Palps to fight.

Don't go by the script. It means nothing. We are talking about the SWU. Well, i was talking about the Prequel Jedi. I don't know where the hell you are. The Jedi Masters got owned. Bottom line. It's all due to the fact that they suck arse.

And since we don't actually know how EVERY single Jedi was killed, we can't say anything about THEM can we?
Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.

And did you ever think that maybe because for once, the Dark Side was more poweful than the light? Does that still make the Jedi weak? Literally 1000's of years of Force domination in the galaxy and NOW they start to wane. Ever consider that maybe, the Dark Side just might be stronger than they are this time. Still doesn't mean they sharply declined and the Dark's barely any better.

Right... Of course.

And again, as part of the script, Vader HAD to lose.
Oh my god... Anyone can go into the script. The point is he lost to his son with three years of Lightsaber experience. Stop going outside the box, buddy. It just degrades your arguement to shit.

If he didn't than Luke would've fallen, or died. The Hero in this story was pre-written to live for the audience's favour. FOUR f*ckin years of training. Four against like 40. It's bullshit.

It isn't bullshit. It happened.

Vader put up a better fight against a crippled old man, there was more MOVING of the limbs in ESB. In ROTJ, did you see how cumbersome those two were fighting? Wildly swinging and barely blocking. That is NOT Jedi fighting.

Oh my god... An excuse? Provide proof that he degraded from ESB to ROTJ. [/B]

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

He didn't even put a lot of power in the first fight... I mean just look, the second he got pissed Luke was down for the count before that the two just fought with Vader being superior.

Sorgo, argue my points next time, don't insult, it only proves your lack of intellectual capacity.
Your points suck. There is almost thin strain to argue.

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.
Peanut head got his shit kicked in.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that.

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

Kid? I am a year older than you, according to our profiles. Exactly! The Sith Lord was more powerful, and the Prequel Jedi could never even get near his power, being that they are horrid.

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Indeed, after all, his father killed alot of those Jedi even *AFTER* his Mustafar accident and before. Hmm...

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

Prove it.

He certainly is.

Are you trying to suggest that Luke, a half-trained Padawan whose only accomplishment was beating his crippled, emotionally confused father, is a better Jedi than the ones who died at Geonosis?

Yup.

This whole concept is so stupid I don't even know how my brain can try and encompass it. All this retarded talk of shitty lightsabre skills... something wrong with yuor eyews? or your brain, not seeing how the film is CLEARLY presenting things- i.e. the Jedi are all elite warriors who can take on many times their own number but cannot fight entire armies alone?

And you bash them for not seeing the Conspiracy? In case uyou hadn;t noticed, the Jedi don't actually have a movie screen to sit in front off and have all the events happily explained to them. In fact they were living in a Galaxy where the great power of the Dark Side was specifically hiding all of this from them. And you assume that powerful Jedi should be able to see through that. Why? What makes you think that? This power of the Sith is clearly presented as unstoppable.

It was stopped in the Original Trilogy. By a rebel army, whereas the Jedi failed to stop the Sith or their army, the Rebel army administered that task. Unfortunatley, the PT Jedi are just shitty.

But all things considered... I'm sorry, but it is this implication that their sabre skills were poor that gets me. What freaking right do you make the benchmark against, that fighting several hundred times your number for half an hour before finally being worn down and killed, reflecting laser blasts all that time, is somehow evidence of poor sabreing? Ok, so only the very best survived. How does that make the ones who died bad, in any wasy, just because the survivors were the best?

Like people say about Darth Maul.

"Darth Maul totally won the fight."

Well, was Kenobi the one sitting at the bottom of a Generator in two pieces at the end of that fight? Kenobi won. He is the better fighter. Maul freaked up and Kenobi took advantage of that.

If the survivors didn't die, i think i am gonna take that as a clue that they are the best because they didn't get ravaged by the Clones, but interm ravaged them.

Do you want to go out and do any better? Or, from a different view, do you want to go and do Nick Gilliard's job, as in interview he clearly said that the main thing about the arena scene was to show just how good Jedi were with Lightsabres. I think he showed just that; your eyesight is obviously off the mark here.

Hmm... Alot of these Jedi died in the arena. Damn, their good!

My God, this is the pits, it really is. The only thing ever worse than this idea is the 'Qui-Gon was Sifo-Dyas' one.

No, it is an opinion. I value yours, please do mine.

Watch the films properly, because this truly is feeble. It is going agaionst everything that is presented to us. You could only twist your head to this POV by having some desperate desire to want the PT JEdi to be bad. Well sorry- but that is not one iota supported on-screen.

Right. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who share my view about the Prequel Jedi being horrid Jedi. You think they are *ALL* stupid? Or are you just saying this to benefit your own personal "POV"?

Originally posted by Sorgo
[B]Sorgo, argue my points next time, don't insult, it only proves your lack of intellectual capacity.
Your points suck. There is almost thin strain to argue.

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.
Peanut head got his shit kicked in.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that.

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

Kid? I am a year older than you, according to our profiles. Exactly! The Sith Lord was more powerful, and the Prequel Jedi could never even get near his power, being that they are horrid.

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Indeed, after all, his father killed alot of those Jedi even *AFTER* his Mustafar accident and before. Hmm...

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

Prove it. [/B]

"C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that." And so can you, answer my question.

So the Sith were better? So what? Just cause Sidious was better than them doesn't mean they suck.

His DAD killed all those Jedi without his suit. Luke beat his (sighs again) emotionally crippled, yielding dad, WITH the suit. You must know the statistics about suit-Vader and non-suit-Vader. And movie only, we're not talking about what happened off screen and in between movies.

I never reveal my personal information to total strangers, including my age.

And being a film and not real life, we can only judge by what we see. Vader wasn't putting up much of a fight in ROTJ in comparison to his fight in ESB, and Luke was swinging like a madman when he took him down, with Darth doing little more than blocking. You know this, you must.

Frankly I believe that the PT Jedi weren't much compared to Jedi of the past. But to call them pathetic, weak fools is just b*tchiness.

Originally posted by Fishy
They were still Jedi that by themselves makes them good. But you have to admit that their lightsaber training was limited and weak. That so many Jedi practiced a weak form means that a shit load of Jedi didn't think it was important to learn the best of the best forms. Why not? Because obviously they felt they wouldn't need it.

Their lightsaber training was so weak that all people confronted with Jedi - if not being headhunters or Sith - immediatly go panic in the films when a lightsaber is ignited. They are so weak that Lucas in the TPM commentary tells us that he wants them to be "invincible" and "unstopable".

The tactics they used on Geonosis (oops...they didn't have tactics) did suck but in fact some of them survived some amount of time being horrible outnumbered and attacked with heavy weapons.

In ancient times, everybody tried to learn the great forms because itw as necessary without it you couldn't survive, thats what makes the PT Jedi weka. Peace.

Oh yes. All the great wars that the ancient Jedi participated in must make them unbelievable good lightsaber duellists. In fact even the ancient Jedi lived in times of peace.
No major conflicts we know about between 5,000 BBY and 4,000 BBY. Then in times of Exar Kun and Ulic Quel-Droma I remember 4 battles (not wars - BATTLES): Two on Onderon (one against Amanoa, one against Ommin), the Battle of Deneba (against Krath droids - where THOUSANDS of Jedi including Arca Jeth were killed) and the final defeat of Exar Kun on Yavin 4.

What can we learn here: When confronted with huge numbers of droids even the ancient Jedi go down.

It has made them lazy, without conflict they had nothing to test themselves against and no reason to improve. They were never challenged, so of course they wouldn't be as good as the older one's who were constantly living with fights threats and wars.

The point is that there weren't "constant challenges". In fact we have a period of peace from Sadow to Nadd (600 years - with a single battle against Nadd) another one between Nadd and Kun (400 years), then another one (40 years) till Revan came up. Than nearly 2,000 years until the Sith Order was installed again. Using your own theory (times of peace make the Jedi lazy) the Jedi of Kun's time would be exactly as lazy (and weak) as the people in PT times.

Oh no. Stop. The force users alive in ROTS would actually be the best because being the only ones that have gone through 3 years of constant challenges (the clone wars) where the ancient one were only confronted with a few battles.

PT era was the weakest point of the Jedi, period. Jedi from any other era I have heard of would dominate them.

Originally posted by Se7in
PT era was the weakest point of the Jedi, period. Jedi from any other era I have heard of would dominate them.

They would ? How would they having only 1/10 of the training the PT Jedi had...

If there is a fight between somebody who trained in a fighting style for 40 or even 60 years from infancy on and somebody who trained the same stuff for 4 or 5 years - who do you think is going to win ?

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Their lightsaber training was so weak that all people confronted with Jedi - if not being headhunters or Sith - immediatly go panic in the films when a lightsaber is ignited. They are so weak that Lucas in the TPM commentary tells us that he wants them to be "invincible" and "unstopable".

Of course people are going to be scared of Jedi, they are still Jedi that still makes them damn powerful now doesn't it?

The tactics they used on Geonosis (oops...they didn't have tactics) did suck but in fact some of them survived some amount of time being horrible outnumbered and attacked with heavy weapons.

Why didn't they have tactics? Because they were fools and idiots, because they didn't think about this battle at all. Jedi aren't army's they aren't supposed to fight like that, but they did and they did so unprepared high casualty's were expected. But look at those casualty's they all practiced the same form, telling you what? That the form they practiced was weak and stupid and that it shouldn't be used, yet Jedi did it because they didn't think it was necessary to learn a better form.

Oh yes. All the great wars that the ancient Jedi participated in must make them unbelievable good lightsaber duellists. In fact even the ancient Jedi lived in times of peace.
No major conflicts we know about between 5,000 BBY and 4,000 BBY.

True, no Major conflict that we know off. However they believed the Sith were still around they had plenty of other things to worry about and they still trained. They had too. This is a difference in thinking, the PT Jedi thought the Sith were extinct. Earlier Jedi did not, now tell me who is going to fight better.

Then in times of Exar Kun and Ulic Quel-Droma I remember 4 battles (not wars - BATTLES): Two on Onderon (one against Amanoa, one against Ommin), the Battle of Deneba (against Krath droids - where THOUSANDS of Jedi including Arca Jeth were killed) and the final defeat of Exar Kun on Yavin 4.

What can we learn here: When confronted with huge numbers of droids even the ancient Jedi go down.

Of course they do, but if they would have been on Geonosis i'm sure they would have done a better job. Why? Because they would have used the force in more offensive ways, they would have destroyed entrances and pushed down lines. They would have attacked Dooku and they would have practiced more forms. Creating a much higher casualty rate in the droid army's. And surviving a lot longer themselves. I never said that no Jedi should have died.

The point is that there weren't "constant challenges". In fact we have a period of peace from Sadow to Nadd (600 years - with a single battle against Nadd) another one between Nadd and Kun (400 years), then another one (40 years) till Revan came up. Than nearly 2,000 years until the Sith Order was installed again. Using your own theory (times of peace make the Jedi lazy) the Jedi of Kun's time would be exactly as lazy (and weak) as the people in PT times.

Wrong, there was a constant threat to talk about. Look at it like this, before WWII the entire world let their army's slip except for those that were about to go to war. And why? Because there weren't any threats, then after WWII ended the cold war started. Now this war had minimal real wars but still the army's made huge improvements. Why? Because of a constant threat from the other side of the ocean.

If your way of live is threatened you are going to improve your army's and your fighting style as much as you can. You saw it yourself in TPM the Jedi were surprised about the Sith, they hadn't expected it. A few droids and normal people they can handle but a Sith... It scared them and for a good reason. They weren't ready.

Oh no. Stop. The force users alive in ROTS would actually be the best because being the only ones that have gone through 3 years of constant challenges (the clone wars) where the ancient one were only confronted with a few battles. [/B]

Actually the difference in skill between a droid and a Sith should be very clear. People that were training to fight a Sith Lord or a Jedi Master would have trained a lot harder and better in many ways then somebody that expects to fight droids. Now both can be challenging but in different ways, and somebody that has been fighting lightsaber wielders is going to be far more powerful then somebody who is not.

A Jedi that only takes out a few normal people skilled perhaps but still normal is not going to be a match against an ancient Jedi or Sith that has practiced his entire live to fight against the Jedi or the Sith and to stop them once and for all. Honestly who is going to be more effective in combat?

[QUOTE=5107704]Originally posted by Tangible God
(sigh) There's too many variables and plot-gaps to work with too keep this up.

[B]"C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that." And so can you, answer my question.

So the Sith were better? So what? Just cause Sidious was better than them doesn't mean they suck.

They weren't able to defend themselves. They SUCK.

His DAD killed all those Jedi without his suit. Luke beat his (sighs again) emotionally crippled, yielding dad, WITH the suit. You must know the statistics about suit-Vader and non-suit-Vader. And movie only, we're not talking about what happened off screen and in between movies.

Then why is there a TV show coming out about Vader's rampage of killing the leftover Jedi IN HIS SUIT? You can answer *THAT* question.

I never reveal my personal information to total strangers, including my age.
Is this an excuse to cover the fact that you're seventeen or younger? Don't be ashamed of your age.

And being a film and not real life, we can only judge by what we see. Vader wasn't putting up much of a fight in ROTJ in comparison to his fight in ESB, and Luke was swinging like a madman when he took him down, with Darth doing little more than blocking. You know this, you must.

Vader wasn't better. There were several moments in which Vader was trying to kill his son in ROTJ. He failed, and to a Jedi Knight with three years experience.

Frankly I believe that the PT Jedi weren't much compared to Jedi of the past. But to call them pathetic, weak fools is just b*tchiness.

B*tchiness? Right.... I spot irrelevancy.

Originally posted by Fishy
Of course people are going to be scared of Jedi, they are still Jedi that still makes them damn powerful now doesn't it?

May I remind you that Andur Sunrider was killed by a small group of bandits where 14 (!) bandits didn't even try to use their weapons being confronted with Mace Windu ? Obviously the PT time era Jedi have developed such a legendary status that nearly nobody even tries to challenge them. That is especially shown in TPM:

- the Neimodians totaly freak out being confronted with 2 (!) Jedi despite the fact they have an entire army of battledroids on their ship to deal with them
- Anakin thinks that nobody can kill a Jedi

Why didn't they have tactics? Because they were fools and idiots, because they didn't think about this battle at all. Jedi aren't army's they aren't supposed to fight like that, but they did and they did so unprepared high casualty's were expected. But look at those casualty's they all practiced the same form, telling you what? That the form they practiced was weak and stupid and that it shouldn't be used, yet Jedi did it because they didn't think it was necessary to learn a better form.

You are right. Jedi aren't supposed to work in great groups. What made them do it at all ? They believe in their individual skills and in "fair play". You can see that very good when Mace ALONE went to the balcony having Jango Fett and Dooku standing there. Would he have done that with 5, 10 or 20 people this battle (and the Clone Wars) wouldn't have happened because they would have captured all (or nearly all) CIS leaders at once.

True, no Major conflict that we know off. However they believed the Sith were still around they had plenty of other things to worry about and they still trained. They had too. This is a difference in thinking, the PT Jedi thought the Sith were extinct. Earlier Jedi did not, now tell me who is going to fight better.

We did SEE who did fight better and that were the PT Jedi. As I said: During the battle of Deneba the ancient Jedi (thousands of them) were confronted with Krath War Droids. Those War Droids (somebody might correct me if I am wrong on that point) had 4 arms using something like a bow shooting blaster bolts with two of them (range attacks) and melee weapons with the other two hands. Now they did manage to kill most of the Jedi present (including powerful ones like Arca Jeth) even shooting with that bows from a long distance.

The Jedi on Geonosis were confronted with droids armed with repeating rifles (normal battle droids), other fast firering droids (Super battle droids), droids that fire 4 bolts at once and have shield generators (Destroyer droids) and Geonosian people armed with heavy weapons horribly outnumbering them - and they still did take a huge number of enemies with them despite the fact that most of them were using the worst lightsaber style you can train and some of them were Padawans (!).

Wrong, there was a constant threat to talk about. Look at it like this, before WWII the entire world let their army's slip except for those that were about to go to war. And why? Because there weren't any threats, then after WWII ended the cold war started. Now this war had minimal real wars but still the army's made huge improvements. Why? Because of a constant threat from the other side of the ocean.

If your way of live is threatened you are going to improve your army's and your fighting style as much as you can. You saw it yourself in TPM the Jedi were surprised about the Sith, they hadn't expected it. A few droids and normal people they can handle but a Sith... It scared them and for a good reason. They weren't ready.

Talking about inventions and improvements most things were invented during actual time of war and NOT past it. Have a look at the Nazis in Germany. They did invent the first rockets (V-rocket series) and the first Jet fighters. America developed nuclear bombs. They were improved later on, right. But think about it that way: If some things were invented by the ancient Jedi (the lightsaber forms except Vaapad seem to be around 4,000 years before the PT) and have gone through 4,000 years of refinement - don't you think the PT Jedi practicing them would be better than the ancient ones ?

Actually the difference in skill between a droid and a Sith should be very clear. People that were training to fight a Sith Lord or a Jedi Master would have trained a lot harder and better in many ways then somebody that expects to fight droids. Now both can be challenging but in different ways, and somebody that has been fighting lightsaber wielders is going to be far more powerful then somebody who is not.

The problem I personally have with that logic is that people aren't trained to face special threads - they are trained to fight. It doesn't matter if there were Sith or not. The PT Jedi had multiple other threats to deal with: the Mandalorians that were left, headhunters, assassins, terroristical organisations (Red Iaro), criminal organisations (Black Sun, the Hutts). In Shadowhunter Maul is thinking about Black Sun members being a challenge for him and he's trained to kill Jedi. So the PT Jedi had tons of dangerous opponents to deal with not only "droids".

They are so weak that Lucas in the TPM commentary tells us that he wants them to be "invincible" and "unstopable".

Exactly. You guys seem to be forgetting the fact that Lucas himself said that the PT was supposed to be Jedi in their golden age -- ie, at their best.

Then why is there a TV show coming out about Vader's rampage of killing the leftover Jedi IN HIS SUIT? You can answer *THAT* question.

Except....that's not what the TV show is going to be about; it's been said that it's going to concentrate on bounty hunters. Lucas said a while ago that there aren't going to be pre-existing characters from the movies in the TV show. If this were new news it'd be one thing, but this is old news.

So the PT jedi are the golden age. Does this make any group of jedi that appears better (Such as perhaps, the NJo crew could end up being) blatantly contradicting GL's word?

Originally posted by Deus Ex
So the PT jedi are the golden age. Does this make any group of jedi that appears better (Such as perhaps, the NJo crew could end up being) blatantly contradicting GL's word?

Do you consider the NJO members to be "Jedi" ?
They are stronger than the PT ones but not in gerneral more because of the fact that they have 4 people with Skywalker blood with enormous potentials (Hell...3 year old Anakin nearly blasted a Dark Jedi away with a burst of his raw power), most of the other powerful ones had some trips to the Dark Sides and returned and they didn't limit themselves much with philosophy (Unifying Force theory).

Imagine Yoda using powers that can be seen as pretty much "dark side" abilities (instakill abilities...wtf ?). What would the PT have looked like if all Jedi had used that stuff ? Maul attacking Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan force chokes him and then Qui-Gon toasts him with Force Lightning ?