Originally posted by starking
No the crisis didn't effect the 4th world. Do you know how many good feats Darkseid has in the post crisis? And zero hour only erased the Legion's timeline. Like the crisis, it didn't effect the 4th world. So pretty much theirs no way to debunk Ds's Gds feats.
THEY NEVER HAPPENED!!!!
GDS was set in the future of Pre Crisis DC so even if DS was left untouched by COIE, the events of GDS never actually happened because COIE rewrote everything before the GDS actually took place(meaning that his feats from that saga are invalid).
What's more, DS was amped up during the GDS do to his absorbing the energy from Excalibure and the the Orb of Orthanhax in the FIRST issue....
That means that he didn't accomplish ANY of those feats under his own power.
Originally posted by starking
Still pis. Darkseid has beaten Superman's ass, more then Supermans beaten him.
"pis'=BS excuse to ignore Superman's powerlevel.
Superman got more poweeful than he is normally, as Darkseid himself commented in Apokolips Now, and that's why he was able to defeat Darkseid there. under Loeb, Schulz(who wrote A/N), and many other writers, going back to the Byrne, era, Superman powerlevels are partially dependant upon his mental state. He usually operates at levels below his 'true levels due to his humble human mindset and his fear of killing anyone. Under multiple writers(though not all) when he finally cuts loose, he is able top operate at level siginficantly above his standard top tier levels.
When aganst Darkseid he tends to go all out in this particular manner and efffectively get mushc more powerful than he is normally portrayed as. that is why he can hang with and defeat Darkseid at the times he has defeated him Loeb, Schulz, and Casey all wrote a Superman portrayal that had a dynamic powerset based upon mental and psychological factors.
Superman was MORE powerful there than he normally is, an that's why he was able to defeat Darkseid. It is not a low showing for Darkseid's physical stats so much as it is a display of how Superman Superman 'truly' can be when he cuts loose as far as those writers are concerned.
We saw basically the EXACT same thing during the JLU finale.
Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a perfectly good way to debunk DS's feats from the GDS.....THEY NEVER HAPPENED!!!!
GDS was set in the future of Pre Crisis DC so even if DS was left untouched by COIE, the events of GDS never actually happened because COIE rewrote everything before the GDS actually took place(meaning that his feats from that saga are invalid).
What's more, DS was amped up during the GDS do to his absorbing the energy from Excalibure and the the Orb of Orthanhax in the FIRST issue....
That means that he didn't accomplish ANY of those feats under his own power.
one of these days i have to finish reading that arc. i've read some of it, but not all of it.
and starking -- i appreciate the references. i'll check a few of them out. 😉
Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a perfectly good way to debunk DS's feats from the GDS.....THEY NEVER HAPPENED!!!!
GDS was set in the future of Pre Crisis DC so even if DS was left untouched by COIE, the events of GDS never actually happened because COIE rewrote everything before the GDS actually took place(meaning that his feats from that saga are invalid).
What's more, DS was amped up during the GDS do to his absorbing the energy from Excalibure and the the Orb of Orthanhax in the FIRST issue....
That means that he didn't accomplish ANY of those feats under his own power.
He drained the energy to strengthen himself, since he was at very very low power. Thus, all those feats were accomplished by a WEAKENED DARKSEID. Proof is in the feat of him defeating his older self and easily thrashing the Legion.
Panthergod: Still fail. 👇 Superman should NEVER beat a non-jobbing Darkseid.
Originally posted by panthergodSo guess Superman=Skyfather am I right? And the time Ds lost in Bryne's story was retconned into an avatar. Going by your logic Superman should beat guy who gave a star system buster and a skyfather level being they're powers. Supermans powerful but he shouldn't be beating Darkseid. If he's that powerful then he should be able to take someone on Thanos's level.
"pis'=BS excuse to ignore Superman's powerlevel.Superman got more poweeful than he is normally, as Darkseid himself commented in Apokolips Now, and that's why he was able to defeat Darkseid there. under Loeb, Schulz(who wrote A/N), and many other writers, going back to the Byrne, era, Superman powerlevels are partially dependant upon his mental state. He usually operates at levels below his 'true levels due to his humble human mindset and his fear of killing anyone. Under multiple writers(though not all) when he finally cuts loose, he is able top operate at level siginficantly above his standard top tier levels.
When aganst Darkseid he tends to go all out in this particular manner and efffectively get mushc more powerful than he is normally portrayed as. that is why he can hang with and defeat Darkseid at the times he has defeated him Loeb, Schulz, and Casey all wrote a Superman portrayal that had a dynamic powerset based upon mental and psychological factors.
Superman was MORE powerful there than he normally is, an that's why he was able to defeat Darkseid. It is not a low showing for Darkseid's physical stats so much as it is a display of how Superman Superman 'truly' can be when he cuts loose as far as those writers are concerned.
We saw basically the EXACT same thing during the JLU finale.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestexactly
He drained the energy to strengthen himself, since he was at very very low power. Thus, all those feats were accomplished by a WEAKENED DARKSEID. Proof is in the feat of him defeating his older self and easily thrashing the Legion.Panthergod: Still fail. 👇 Superman should [b]NEVER
beat a non-jobbing Darkseid. [/B]
Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a perfectly good way to debunk DS's feats from the GDS.....THEY NEVER HAPPENED!!!!
GDS was set in the future of Pre Crisis DC so even if DS was left untouched by COIE, the events of GDS never actually happened because COIE rewrote everything before the GDS actually took place(meaning that his feats from that saga are invalid).
What's more, DS was amped up during the GDS do to his absorbing the energy from Excalibure and the the Orb of Orthanhax in the FIRST issue....
That means that he didn't accomplish ANY of those feats under his own power.
And yet he was still weaker than his younger self even with all those power ups. As the GDS clearly stated. nice try. Try again. ANd it's has always been his power to take the power of others.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He drained the energy to strengthen himself, since he was at very very low power. Thus, all those feats were accomplished by a WEAKENED DARKSEID. Proof is in the feat of him defeating his older self and easily thrashing the Legion.
When was it that DS fought his older self?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And yet he was still weaker than his younger self even with all those power ups. As the GDS clearly stated. nice try. Try again. ANd it's has always been his power to take the power of others.
Originally posted by darthgoober
ASSUMING that what you're saying is true, it doesn't change the fact that the events NEVER happened and are therefor invalid.
That is not true. They happened to DS. That is like the events in the Butterfly effect. He changes the Time line so that the events dont' happen in the main time stream, but they still happened none the less becuz he still remembers them. Kinda like The AOA ended up never happening and yet XMAN still exist. And so does holocaust and others.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlCoudn't say it better myself.
That is not true. They happened to DS. That is like the events in the Butterfly effect. He changes the Time line so that the events dont' happen in the main time stream, but they still happened none the less becuz he still remembers them. Kinda like The AOA ended up never happening and yet XMAN still exist. And so does holocaust and others.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is not true. They happened to DS. That is like the events in the Butterfly effect. He changes the Time line so that the events dont' happen in the main time stream, but they still happened none the less becuz he still remembers them. Kinda like The AOA ended up never happening and yet XMAN still exist. And so does holocaust and others.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yes, but the new god's temporal continuity is skewed, thus the feats are still valid. Darkseid has met his older self and seen the future. And since they met, the feats are still valid.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But if it was his OLDER self then wouldn't that mean that the feats still aren't valid because the younger DS still hasn't done them?
The younger self still has the same power. At any rate, for the sake of argument, we have to take the feats as valid becuz they weren't retconned out of the new God's continuity. The New Gods seem to escape any and all retcons. Why Even PC feats still count for DS.
