Originally posted by darthsith19
I know Dooku fakes it. Why the **** are you bringing that up? My point was Vader used much more uncontrolled rage while fighting Obi-Wan than Anakin did while fighting Dooku. But my main point was Anakin's stronger than Obi-Wan, which means he's stronger than Vader. And since my point has been proved lets just drop this part of the debate.
Hell...
a) Anakin is stronger than Obi-Wan. Yes.
b) Anakin is stronger than Vader. In terms of raw potential. Yes. In terms of movement abilities. Yes. In terms of lightsaber combat. No. How would he ? Vader in suit is Anakin with mechanical arms (more strength) and more practice in lightsaber combat. You know that fighting is not only a matter of physical condition. Do you ?
So Vader's stronger than Obi-Wan?
No. Obi-Wan would still most likely beat ANH Vader. But he has beaten ROTS Anakin too. Your point being ?
More experience than someone who has fought in the Clone Wars? And TPM Mace is only 2 years older than ROTS Obi-Wan.
a) "Wars don't make someone great" - Yoda.
b) Yes. He has more experience because he's 40 and Anakin is 23.
c) TPM Mace reached Knight status in half the time Obi-Wan needed and has reached Master status in an age where Obi-Wan became a Jedi Knight. So what ?
No, Anakin's stronger than Obi-Wan.
And TPM Mace is simply better than Obi-Wan and Anakin. He would outclass Anakin. Period.
You say that when you only have a vague idea of how strong TPM Mace is.
He's a living legend even in that time. Number 2 of the order. Not to mention he must have mastered forms IV, V and VII in this time in order to use Vaapad. He would destroy Anakin.
Wow, Thirteen? Are you serious?
Yes. Thirteen.
Yes, he did train Depa but you don't have to train a Padawan to become a Master.
Becoming a Master does require to train a Padawan. Being on the Council does not but Master status does require that. Just read something about Ki-Adi-Mundi. He was a Knight in TPM times but on the Council and became Master AFTER having trained a Padawan.
AOTC Mace could beat Anakin. And how do you know he did nothing between TPM and AOTC? Just because there's no books on what he did doesn't mean he did nothing. And did you say Mace called Jango the deadliest man in the galaxy? When? Snd anywahs, this is clearly wrong. Sidiious is clearly the deadliest. And Jango's jetpack broke, whoch is why he got pwned.
What should he have done between TPM and AotC ? Obviously no bigger conflicts where going on.
Mace called Jango the deadliest man in the galaxy in "Shatterpoint" when he doesn't know about Sidious (but he did know Dooku) and obviously he considered Jango to be a bigger thread.
Okay, just because his form had flaws doesn't mean Qui-Gon was weak. Yoda used it and it worked well. yes, he can dodge hits, but so can any Jedi, some better than others.
Yoda can avoid hits from Depa Billaba, Plo Koon and Saesee Tiin at once without using a lightsaber. If Qui-Gon was anywhere near that level he would have killed Maul. Form IV only works well for Yoda because he can go 100 % offense since he doesn't need the lightsaber for defensive actions.
You to. I didn't say they used the same form, just that wacking and lashing out worked for Luke when he defeated Vader.
Bad choreography 20 years ago and Vader didn't want to kill his son so he wasn't trying. The very same way Obi-Wan wasn't trying to kill Vader in ANH.
According to who? You? And sw's sources say Qui-Gon rivaled Mace.
According to the starwars.com Databank:
"In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku."
Okay, Yoda and Dooku were the only ones who could ever beat Mace, but I would say Yoda's quite a ways above TPM Mace. And AOTC-ROTS Dooku would beat Maul by quite a bit, TPM Dooku would be a better match for Maul.
They are all FAR above ROTS Anakin so why you even writing about that ?
How many times have I got to say AOTC and ROTS Mace would beat Anakin? And his punches are invisible to the naked eye, not to someone using the Force to make things seem slower.
How many times do I have to tell you that TPM Mace is basically = AotC Mace and he would beat Anakin too. And Mace was fighting another FORCE USER and seemed to be "invisible" to him, placing 6 hits onto his opponent before he could even react.
Yeah, what I'm saying is ubber nonsense 😆
Yes. It is. Nice that you're finally realizing it.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
I said AOTC Anakin is better than OT Vader? When was this? More darthshit19 stuff?
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Hell...
a) Anakin is stronger than Obi-Wan. Yes.
b) Anakin is stronger than Vader. In terms of raw potential. Yes. In terms of movement abilities. Yes. In terms of lightsaber combat. No. How would he ? Vader in suit is Anakin with mechanical arms (more strength) and more practice in lightsaber combat. You know that fighting is not only a matter of physical condition. Do you ?
A. Okay, we agree.
B. He's better than at saber combat. How would he not be? Not only ROTS non-mechanical Vader but definately OT Vader. OT Vader may have more arm strength but he's alot slower.
No. Obi-Wan would still most likely beat ANH Vader. But he has beaten ROTS Anakin too. Your point being ?
a) "Wars don't make someone great" - Yoda.
b) Yes. He has more experience because he's 40 and Anakin is 23.
c) TPM Mace reached Knight status in half the time Obi-Wan needed and has reached Master status in an age where Obi-Wan became a Jedi Knight. So what ?
He's a living legend even in that time. Number 2 of the order. Not to mention he must have mastered forms IV, V and VII in this time in order to use Vaapad. He would destroy Anakin.
Becoming a Master does require to train a Padawan.
Just read something about Ki-Adi-Mundi. He was a Knight in TPM times but on the Council and became Master AFTER having trained a Padawan.
What should he have done between TPM and AotC ? Obviously no bigger conflicts where going on.
Mace called Jango the deadliest man in the galaxy in "Shatterpoint" when he doesn't know about Sidious (but he did know Dooku) and obviously he considered Jango to be a bigger thread.
Yoda can avoid hits from Depa Billaba, Plo Koon and Saesee Tiin at once without using a lightsaber. If Qui-Gon was anywhere near that level he would have killed Maul. Form IV only works well for Yoda because he can go 100 % offense since he doesn't need the lightsaber for defensive actions.
Bad choreography 20 years ago and Vader didn't want to kill his son so he wasn't trying. The very same way Obi-Wan wasn't trying to kill Vader in ANH.
According to the starwars.com Databank:
They are all FAR above ROTS Anakin so why you even writing about that ?
How many times do I have to tell you that TPM Mace is basically = AotC Mace and he would beat Anakin too.
And Mace was fighting another FORCE USER and seemed to be "invisible" to him, placing 6 hits onto his opponent before he could even react.
Yes. It is. Nice that you're finally realizing it.
Awwww, Darth Sith is so cute when he is obscenely overconfident.
And everyone on the Mace side is only looking at one side of the facts.
I'm out to make as many enemies as possible.
I came into this thinking Anakin could win because he has more potential, he had lots of experience from the clone wars, and the age difference wasn't that much. Darth Sith, no offence but I,ve seen no good arguments for this, It was all like haha, lol, like that could happen 😆
p.s.-(My brothers theory) Dooku didn't fake it, Sids helped Anakin out in the fight with the force.