Originally posted by IssacFrosthum... there is really nothign beyond omega, as it isnt a power level, but limitless potential. most confirmed omegas havent made it past herald level. on the other hand, whil FR is supposed to have celestial level potential and has one very impressive feat in the form of the pocket universe, both he and onslaught generally lack feats on their levels. furthermore, reality warpers vary in power scale and vulnerability, proteus for instance is godlike for sure and still got destroyed by magneto recently. My point is that reality warpers arent all the same level.
[B]He usurped Franklin Richards and Nate Grey's powers who both are Omega Level. In addition Franklin has vast psionic and reality-manipulating powers. Not to mention he already had started way beyond Omega level and when he got Franklin and Nate's powers he jumped to god-like levels. With Reality-manipulating/warping powers he should have not lost that fight. Reality control is quite a very powerful ability reserved for god-like entities. When Superman assaulted a poisoned Darkseid who had achieved similar reality control powers he couldn't do much against the latter. That's how powerful beings with Reality powers are.
but yeah, with FR's power let's say he was celestial level. pretty insane feat for hulk, sure.
sure, but like I said comparisons between warpers are compicated. but yes, Hulk did better, however, he was mindless and therefore amped. perhaps a sundipepd SM could have reproduced that feat or done better against that version of DS. point is that it wasnt regular hulk that did that to onslaught
So Hulk beat the physical "shell" of a reality warping being but Superman was unable to do the same to Darkseid. That says a lot about Hulk's brutal rage fueled strength. Onslaught went toe to toe with Hulk but ended up having his exterior shell broken. That is quite a feat.
not really, the releas of the mindless hulk goes beyond just cutting lose, hulk doesnt reach state on his normal anger. granted, that hulk would likely punch SM's head off, if he landed that hit on him, but will hulk get there on his on on average? no.
Indeed he needed to shut off Banner's influence with Jean. But here we are assuming neither is holding back which means Superman would be fighting the same Hulk that fought Onslaught.
Originally posted by 753
hum... there is really nothign beyond omega, as it isnt a power level, but limitless potential. most confirmed omegas havent made it past herald level. on the other hand, whil FR is supposed to have celestial level potential and has one very impressive feat in the form of the pocket universe, both he and onslaught generally lack feats on their levels. furthermore, reality warpers vary in power scale and vulnerability, proteus for instance is godlike for sure and still got destroyed by magneto recently. My point is that reality warpers arent all the same level.but yeah, with FR's power let's say he was celestial level. pretty insane feat for hulk, sure.
sure, but like I said comparisons between warpers are compicated. but yes, Hulk did better, however, he was mindless and therefore amped. perhaps a sundipepd SM could have reproduced that feat or done better against that version of DS. point is that it wasnt regular hulk that did that to onslaught
not really, the releas of the mindless hulk goes beyond just cutting lose, hulk doesnt reach state on his normal anger. granted, that hulk would likely punch SM's head off, if he landed that hit on him, but will hulk get there on his on on average? no.
All very valid points. But Onslaught having the combined powers of Magneto, Xavier, Nate and Franklin did turn him into a god-like being. That means his powers where off the usual scale:
"Onslaught is a psionic entity with superior physical and mental power, possessing the combined abilities of Professor X, Magneto, Franklin Richards, and Nate Grey. At its prime, Onslaught is capable of telepathy, telekinesis, energy projection, sensing mutant presences, manipulating magnetic fields, and affecting reality itself. Onslaught can also enhance its physical size and strength.
Onslaughts powers were well over that of Omega Level. In Onslaughts first form, the one he had when he was one with Xavier. In this form, Onslaught has shown a wide variety of abilities including nearly limitless strength, and near indestructibility. Onslaught's psionic powers appeared limitless, appearing to surpass even that of Xavier in his right mind. He was especially powerful in the Astral Plane, where he appeared to have god-like abilities. Even Jean Grey's powers were completely useless against him. From what has been seen, he seems to have total mental control over anyone or anything he wishes, ranging from altering one's perception to believe they are someone or somewhere else (he demonstrated this by making Wolverine believe he was a wolf pup, and making Storm think she was a child), to most conceivable forms of telekinesis. Onslaught also possesed many forms of energy projection, all of which at high levels of power.
After fully evolving into his own, separate consciousness and having Professor X ripped from him in the Astral Plane, Onslaught evolved into a second form, less resembling Magneto and looking more like a cybernetic monster. In this form, his powers were increased to virtually godlike levels, including the ability to mass-manipulate (his complete takeover of all the Sentinels), create and reshape matter at will (shown when he created his citadel, and when he created a second sun to destroy Earth), and an apparent omniscience (as evidenced when he easily thwarted an attempt to sneak into his citadel). His physical strength was also shown to be at obscenely high levels; so much so he was able to literally rip the Crystal Gem of Cytorrak out of Juggernaut and throw him across North America and go toe-to-toe in a physical fight with the Hulk even after the Hulk's mind had been blanked and his strength and rage set to incredible levels thanks to Jean Grey 'shutting down' the subconscious influence that Bruce Banner normally exerted over the Hulk to stop him going too far.
For a time, Onslaught had these powers while still in his first form; the majority of these came from the absorption of Nate Grey and Franklin Richards. In the end, Onslaught's true body was revealed to be a mass of pure, psionic energy that was immune to all forms of physical attacks."
Originally posted by Zack Fair
No. I am just saying that it isn't the same thing.
If Hulk is going all out that does mean no Banner subconscious to make him hold back just as no morals or boy scout character whatsoever on Superman to hold back. I am assuming neither is holding back and are trying to kill each other and are fighting without any innocents in the way as Hulk has shown he too would go out of his way to save innocents.
Just found a scan where Superman tries to put a bear hug on Hulk and Hulk uses a part of his power and breaks free sending Superman out into space and Superman commenting that Hulk was brutally strong and fast. I don't think Superman would have made those comments if he didn't feel Hulk being that strong or fast and he didn't even seem enraged.
Also the scan with Onslaught he had pinned Hulk down and was taunting him. Hulk's response was to state that the madder he gets the stronger he becomes and that he felt angry and cracked Onslaught's armor with a punch.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Onslaught beat Pheonix or was it normal Jean Grey?
facepalm @Supes getting oneshotted
Carvers average, no-lowballing Superman is Byrne's Superman koed in an gas explosion...
Superman is as strong as current Hulk. Hulk goes WB mode, Superman goes OWAW mode. And Superman tanked worse then Hulks punches.
He wins, it is not an slugfest and even if, a stalemate is more likely.
Originally posted by IssacFrost
Just found a scan where Superman tries to put a bear hug on Hulk and Hulk uses a part of his power and breaks free sending Superman out into space and Superman commenting that Hulk was brutally strong and fast. I don't think Superman would have made those comments if he didn't feel Hulk being that strong or fast and he didn't even seem enraged.Also the scan with Onslaught he had pinned Hulk down and was taunting him. Hulk's response was to state that the madder he gets the stronger he becomes and that he felt angry and cracked Onslaught's armor with a punch.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Onslaught beat Pheonix or was it normal Jean Grey?
Crossovers isn't usable but I think Hulk is fast enough to land blows on Superman. Hulk does have super speed and this has been stated on numerous of occasions. Why does people like Despero, Links, and Doomsday can have super speed due to who they fight and quotes but when Hulk gets the same statements and showings as these people,.it gets brushed off?
As for the crossover, that was a mild Pre Crisis Superman as well and yes, Hulk wad proven the stronger out of the two but its not usable.
As for this fight, Hulk is at levels surpassing any of his incarnations and I honestly believe that there isn't a brick out there right now that's at his level physically.
We have more to see but Current Hulk is pretty much unstoppable and has some insane feats under his belt.
Originally posted by carver9
Crossovers isn't usable but I think Hulk is fast enough to land blows on Superman. Hulk does have super speed and this has been stated on numerous of occasions. Why does people like Draperies, Link, and Doomsday can have super speed due to who they fight and quotes but when Hulk gets the same statements and showings as these people,.it gets brushed off?As for the crossover, that was a mild Pre Crisis Superman as well and yes, Hulk wad proven the stronger out of the two but its not usable.
As for this fight, Hulk is at levels surpassing any of his incarnations and I honestly believe that there isn't a brick out there right now that's at his level physically.
We have more to see but Current Hulk is pretty much unstoppable and has some insane feats under his belt.
True.
But I still don't think Superman will go down with one blow. Hulk might be brutally strong but Superman has a plethora of powers. And Hulk might have super speed but I am pretty certain it isn't comparable to Superman's light speed. And we are assuming a no holds match with nothing in the way like civilians morality or subconscious influences. We have to assume they are both out for blood and I know sure as heck Superman won't go down easily either. He can also fly for a tactical retreat and super charge at the Sun because he can do it. And with Light Speed he can be back in the fight. Not to mention Hulk might be able to jump but you can't change your trajectory with a jump and Superman can fly allowing him to change his trajectory mid flight and with speed easily evading Hulk who needs to jump to even reach him. We are also assuming Superman will also use tactics as well.
I'm unbiased in this matter Superman is quite a powerful being in his own right he also has planetary feats under his belt.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm @Supes getting oneshottedCarvers average, no-lowballing Superman is Byrne's Superman koed in an gas explosion...
Superman is as strong as current Hulk. Hulk goes WB mode, Superman goes OWAW mode. And Superman tanked worse then Hulks punches.
He wins, it is not an slugfest and even if, a stalemate is more likely.
It sounds more like a stalemate. And all out Hulk has insane strength, durability, adaptability and regeneration. All these means his built to take brutal punishment. And dish out brutal punishment.
However he'd have to land blows on Superman and that's the part I find hard for Hulk to do specifically because Superman CAN fly AND CAN move at light speed. Problem is most of his attacks Hulk would shrug them off as well. Hulk is a being that has demonstrated his insane durability and regeneration time after time. A being who can take core solar like temperatures and soak planet shattering impacts. A being who dropped down into lava and held the tetonic plates of a world twice the size of Earth. Superman isn't fighting some weakling, he is fighting a monster who has no limits to his rage fueled abilities.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm @Supes getting oneshottedCarvers average, no-lowballing Superman is Byrne's Superman koed in an gas explosion...
Superman is as strong as current Hulk. Hulk goes WB mode, Superman goes OWAW mode. And Superman tanked worse then Hulks punches.
He wins, it is not an slugfest and even if, a stalemate is more likely.
Buddy... Current Hulk and Superman isn't the same strength. Superman and Savage Hulk is the same strength but Current Hulk is sssooooooo much more. Get out of here with that nonsense. Lol... Owaw superman. What does that mean?
Originally posted by carver9Probably Supes when he was tearing through Imperiex Probes like tissue paper. Even one-shotted some of them, IIRC.
Buddy... Current Hulk and Superman isn't the same strength. Superman and Savage Hulk is the same strength but Current Hulk is sssooooooo much more. Get out of here with that nonsense. Lol... Owaw superman. What does that mean?