Originally posted by psycho gundam
oh you mean the one where he thought they were pulling against solar gravity when in the comic it was the opposite?
Yeah, thats the one. He is stating that since the planet was being pulled against Supes and GL, they were pulling 50 earth weights. I wouldnt even try to convince him because last week I clearly explained to him that Superman was amped when he punched lobo out of space and he is still going around the forum using the ft as if it was an average Superman.
Originally posted by carver9So you are saying HP Superman is weaker than current Superman? Because the lobo feat came the month before Hunter Prey came out. That means HP Superman with all that strength was getting wrecked by DD.
Yeah, thats the one. He is stating that since the planet was being pulled against Supes and GL, they were pulling 50 earth weights. I wouldnt even try to convince him because last week I clearly explained to him that Superman was amped when he punched lobo out of space and he is still going around the forum using the ft as if it was an average Superman.
Superman exerted more than 50 Earth weights of force in the starbreaker feat (assuming he was pulling with half the force as GL) and the mageddon feat.
Originally posted by h1a8_
If ANY fight with Hulk lasts too long then Hulk is most likely not losing. This is a supreme fact. If Hulk is to be beat then it must be within a reasonable time period. Now Superman has many ways to beat Hulk in seconds. The problem is that his character would make him not do those things in the beginning. The things I'm referring to is uppercutting Hulk into space, comboing him to ko, hv through the brain, using pressure points attacks, vibrating through him, etc.In a comic, this will be a fight. But in a forum this is not quite a good fight. The speed issue alone prevents that. Superman not only starts stronger than the Hulk (has feats over 50 Earth weights of force) but has every other attribute greater than that of Hulk's (except HF).
Hulk has been beaten several times in comics and by beings far less powerful and slower than Superman.Personally, I don't know why this thread went on this long. It is clear that Superman takes a majority. Now Superman clean sweeping is another story. But everyone with a rational mind should agree he takes at least a slight majority.
Lastly, if I knew the only way my character could win (or not lose) is for the other character to be limited by CIS then I still won't be happy. For I know deep down inside my heart that the other character has the tools to put my character down if he/she REALLY WANTED TO.
I understand what you mean. But we are talking about Hulk's latest persona the Green Scar which not only begins more powerful than all the others in his "calm" state but flips out faster than any of the other personas entering World Breaker mode.
_Let's assume Superman starts going all out on Green Scar, upon the first blow that Green Scar takes he won't die because he can whistand the kind of planet shattering attacks Superman throws out. Let's assume Superman used his light speed to "teleport" behind and gives him a mighty no holds back blow. Hulk will probably be sent flying and crashing into stuff because Superman caught him. Now let's assume Superman "speeds" up again to punch the crap out of him and does so multiple times each attack 1/10th of a second so within three seconds he has hit Hulk with 30 planet shattering impacts to kill anyone. Chances are he leaves Hulk for dead._
Now here is the case unless he continues to pummel Hulk until he is sure Hulk is dead the reasonable thing is he will fly away because he doesn't have psionic powers to know if Hulk is "truly dead". To all intentions and purposes he would seem dead. An X-Ray scan will confirm Hulk's body broken and pummeled. Maybe the organs are busted. At any case to Superman, Hulk is dead. Which would allow Hulk to regenerate and when he comes back his flipped out._
On the second encounter most of Superman's attacks will do less than when he first attacked him. That is Hulk's major ace: he has shown to regenerate even when his flesh and muscles where flayed off him which means literally to the bones or close and his capacity to regenerate from such damage. Hulk is the complete definition of the old saying: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That is what most people here don't consider. For Superman to win he has to kill Hulk to the point he can't come back._
And I'm even exaggerating because Hulk has shown an insane durability that does in fact make him nigh invulnerable due to how hard it is to hurt him after all he can take core solar temperatures without suffering any damage, that's quite the insane durability.
If I where the Superman RPer and I'm not holding back I would start from flight range away from Hulk's vision range after all he doesn't have any vision powers but I do. I will proceed to assault him with light speed from my vantage point and since I'm moving at the speed of light with Flash like reaction time and reflexes there is no way Hulk will see me coming and I will deliver for the next 10 seconds around 100 blows of planet shattering no hold back blows. And pummel him into green purée._
Since Carver seems to be good at Hulk he can say exactly how in the world would he counter me.
Originally posted by h1a8
So you are saying HP Superman is weaker than current Superman? Because the lobo feat came the month before Hunter Prey came out. That means HP Superman with all that strength was getting wrecked by DD.
Force = mass x acceleration. Weight is a force.
If you accelerate a 10kg mass at 9.8m/s^2 then this is equivalent of lifting a 98 newton object on Earth. If you accelerate the Earth at g (9.8m/s^2) then this is equivalent to lifting an item with the weight of the Earth. If you accelerate the Earth faster than g then this is equivalent to lifting an item heavier than the weight of the Earth.Superman exerted more than 50 Earth weights of force in the starbreaker feat (assuming he was pulling with half the force as GL) and the mageddon feat.
Then THAT Superman that punched Lobo out of space... yes, I think Current Superman is weaker. A couple of issues later, he Hulked up. Stated that if he touched the ground wrong, he could level an entire city block. There really wasnt a telling on how powerful that Superman was but what I do know is that he absorbed enough energy to surpass an average sun dip.
Superman was an engine to the mag wheel... nothing more, nothing less.
Superman didnt move 50 earth weights... I dont know where you got that from.
Isaac...
From Genis all the way to Sentry to Gladiator... all of them used there speed against Hulk and it didnt help them at all... they got countered. Ironman has flown FTL as well and Wonderman also has super speed but yet both of them got blitzed by Hulk and he ran through them before they even realized what was going on.
Speed isnt an issue here and if they are fighting in character, it sure as hell isnt an issue at all.
Superman would have to over power Hulk to win this fight. His heat vision isnt going to work and Ice breath sure as hell isnt going to work. He will be fighting a killing machine that is basically stronger than any Doomsday he has ran across.
With all the power Superman has, I can NOT see him dropping this version of Hulk and I sure as hell cant see him handling too many blows from him.
Originally posted by carver9_
Isaac..._From Genis all the way to Sentry to Gladiator... all of them used there speed against Hulk and it didnt help them at all... they got countered. Ironman has flown FTL as well and Wonderman also has super speed but yet both of them got blitzed by Hulk and he ran through them before they even realized what was going on._
Speed isnt an issue here and if they are fighting in character, it sure as hell isnt an issue at all._
Superman would have to over power Hulk to win this fight. His heat vision isnt going to work and Ice breath sure as hell isnt going to work. He will be fighting a killing machine that is basically stronger than any Doomsday he has ran across._
With all the power Superman has, I can NOT see him dropping this version of Hulk and I sure as hell cant see him handling too many blows from him.
Well Doomsday did 'catch' Flash when he was moving at his insane speed. So there is the possibility of "catching" Superman.
But Superman can and will move at light speed. How is Hulk going to keep up with that? He doesn't have reaction feats like Spiderman. And he has no way of seeing a light speed attack coming. Superman would be moving at 186,000 mps and he has the reaction to boot to him Hulk will look like a statue practically no movement at all because he is moving and reacting that fast.
Originally posted by IssacFrost
_Well Doomsday did 'catch' Flash when he was moving at his insane speed. So there is the possibility of "catching" Superman.
But Superman can and will move at light speed. How is Hulk going to keep up with that? He doesn't have reaction feats like Spiderman. And he has no way of seeing a light speed attack coming. Superman would be moving at 186,000 mps and he has the reaction to boot to him Hulk will look like a statue practically no movement at all because he is moving and reacting that fast.
Show me a scan of him fighting that fast. If you show me, I will give Superman the majority in this fight.
Like I said before, Hulk has tagged speedsters. There will be no statues here.
Originally posted by carver9
Show me a scan of him fighting that fast. If you show me, I will give Superman the majority in this fight.Like I said before, Hulk has tagged speedsters. There will be no statues here.
So that speed feat shown in a scan of him "vanishing" and "reappearing" to strike a blow at Doomsday is... Fake?
Well here is something that makes me think. Did or has Superman beaten Flash in speed? If he hasn't than it's safe to assume Superman is not that fast. However the scan shows that he was moving at least hyper speed.
Originally posted by IssacFrost
So that speed feat shown in a scan of him "vanishing" and "reappearing" to strike a blow at Doomsday is... Fake?Well here is something that makes me think. Did or has Superman beaten Flash in speed? If he hasn't than it's safe to assume Superman is not that fast. However the scan shows that he was moving at least hyper speed.
I never said he didnt have super speed.
Flash admitted in a recent race that he "let" Superman win. The race they had before that, they were only moving at 2000 mps and Superman was trying to grab him with everything he had.
Originally posted by carver9
I never said he didnt have super speed.Flash admitted in a recent race that he "let" Superman win. The race they had before that, they were only moving at 2000 mps and Superman was trying to grab him with everything he had.
And that's still much, much faster than anything Hulk should be able to deal with.
But wait! Hulk has tagged Surfer once! In space, when he was possessed by a symbiant. Maybe that means Hulk could hit Superman after all.
On the other hand, you made a pretty compelling argument a few days ago:
Wolverinr has also taken it to Mimic who is> Ironman. He has taken direct hits from Sasquash and still had a smile on his face. He has taken on Rulk, Hulk
Wolverine took on Hulk, and didn't get killed outright? Hulk, who can tag speedsters, struggled to hit him?
Well, Wolverines not really a speedster! Not any more than Cassandra Cain or Daredevil are true speedsters.. If Hulk has feats that prove he can hit high end speedsters, him struggling to hit Wolverine should be ruled PIS.
You can't have it both ways, Carver. Either Hulk is fast enough to handle high end speedsters, or he's so slow he can't hit Wolverine.
Originally posted by carver9
I never said he didnt have super speed.Flash admitted in a recent race that he "let" Superman win. The race they had before that, they were only moving at 2000 mps and Superman was trying to grab him with everything he had.
no they weren't. you know that too. don't make me warn you.
Originally posted by cdtm
And that's still much, much faster than anything Hulk should be able to deal with.But wait! Hulk has tagged Surfer once! In space, when he was possessed by a symbiant. Maybe that means Hulk could hit Superman after all.
On the other hand, you made a pretty compelling argument a few days ago:
Wolverine took on Hulk, and didn't get killed outright? Hulk, who can tag speedsters, struggled to hit him?
Well, Wolverines not really a speedster! Not any more than Cassandra Cain or Daredevil are true speedsters.. If Hulk has feats that prove he can hit high end speedsters, him struggling to hit Wolverine should be ruled PIS.
You can't have it both ways, Carver. Either Hulk is fast enough to handle high end speedsters, or he's so slow he can't hit Wolverine.
This type of argument isn't helping you because Superman has also had the same type of issues that Hulk has had against people in Wolverine tier (example, Slade and Batman, and let's not forget the scene when Batman had Superman powers and was still getting blitzed by Nightwing) burned both know Superman is MUCH faster than the people mentioned. Not a good way to debate.
Like I said before, Hulk has countered a blitz from beings that has flown ftl if we are using that as an argument. I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to counter a blitz here. By the way, WWH didn't have a problem with Wolverine speed...he tagged with difficulty at all.