Okay, i have heard enough crap!
Sidious did not defeat Yoda. Their fight was on par until Yoda fell from the platform after his own powerful force blast made him do so.
Also, if i recall, Sidious is the one who tried to run from the fight in the first place, yes?
Once again, Dooku may have an overhauling chance to defeat Sidious in Lightsaber combat. All those years Dooku had a plan to overthrow Sidious but it didn't go through. Do not think because Dooku is the apprentice he is weaker. We have been shown that this is false.
Ventress against Maul? Ventress. Maul is good, but he is stupid. He showed us this when he DIED!
Ventress never had strong enough proof to her death. For all we know, she is still alive and assassinated Jedi during the Purge.
But from what i saw from Ventress, it leads me to believe she would tool Maul in mere seconds. Anakin had to give into his anger to defeat her, she did fair with Dooku, and not to mention she ravaged an entire arena filled with Alien Gladiators, in which she slaughtered. Hmm.. Maul's accomplishments? He killed a Jedi Master, and was killed by a Padawan. Wow.
Grievous and Vader? C'mon now. Vader isn't the most powerful body around. Grievous is quite the powerhouse as well. Not to mention he is alot faster and more acrobatical. The four Lightsabers helps him too.
Vader was killed by his son who had three years of Jedi Experience. Grievous has slaughtered numerous Jedi, not to mention Vader's momentum in his Lightsaber scrapage wouldn't keep up with Four Lightsabers swinging at unatural speed.
Hey guys, I'm kind of new to the forums, so if I get some things mixed up, forgive me. Point out any mess-ups, and I'll give it a better shot next time.
Ok, first off- Obi-wan, in tPM, gave into the dark side(anger) a little when Qui-Gon was killed so it gave him an edge by allowing his forming mastery of the Jedi aspect of the force to work with hintings of the dark side of the force to quickly repay Maul. So Maul should be given a little more power in these arguements ( I don't know enough on Ventress to decide who would win though). Next, can someone explain to me why it was so easy for Anakin to off Dooku in RotS, and if it was a matter of power, then why is Anakin not being given enough credit in terms of defeating Grievous? Also, Sorgo, when was Vader killed by Luke and how can Luke be more powerful? He had his mechanical hand chopped off (non-fatal), the Emperor's lightning did him in, and he wasn't going to kill his son b/c he was already being freed -next post->
from the grip of the dark side (i.e.- The Emperor questioned his intentions before Vader greeted Luke on Endor, *Luke couldn't handle Palpatine's F. Lightning though Vader took it long enough to kill Palpatine, yet he couldn't overcome Luke during the Lightsaber battle?) Also, not to further my arguement against Sorgo, anyone have anything to say about Vader's submission on that bridge, before Luke off'd his hand, in terms of a sense of parental sacrifice- more specifically, you knew Vader was powerful, but but he eventually chose not to fight because he received a developing love for his son and couldn't harm him at any cost. Luke in my opinion was blind at that point by the prophesy of Yoda, the developing fight, and his paternal trait of blinding anger to see his father giving in for his own good- that disappointed me about Luke. Anyway, I got way off topic but to conclude, Sidious is powerful yes, but I think politics and mind-control is his game, not duels- so Dooku should take him.
I think the dual assumptions that A) Dooku threw the "Invisible Hand" fight and B) Sidious threw his fight against Windu are on par. The logical reasoning to throwing these crucial duels is always, "Turn Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side."
Then again, the ROTS novelization as I remember it reads that Dooku was actually giving his all towards the end of his fight. I've forgotten what it read about Palpatine's.
Anyway, in my humble opinion, Darth Sidious and Yoda are about equal in force strength and perhaps dueling. Yes, Sidious tried to leave, and that's most likely because he knew Yoda had a chance of beating him. However, when he knew he could not leave, he fought Yoda to a stalemate, something Dooku could never do. (Admittedly I like Sidious because he humbled Yoda. I almost cheered when he knocked the "little green freak" on his ass with lightning. He had it coming. 😉 )
I think people give Grievous far too much credit, and admittedly I probably think so because I've not seen the Clone Wars cartoon. Still, it stands to reason that someone trained in the Dark Side would have no qualms about using the force offensively to cripple or kill Grievous, who would have no defense against it if it were targeted towards his gutsack.
I can't comment on Ventress.
The lightsaber fight only lasted a few minutes before they were first seperated, so you cant say he is perhaps better than yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Yoda did everything better than Sidious had in that fight. He caught the lightning and blasted it back, threw pods back at sidious. Broke every saber-lock, so really yoda had the upperhand during a few moments in the fight, some of them were just defensive because I mean what else could the little guy do?
The area they fought was 98% in Sids favor. If your going to ask for proof, I sadly cannot prove any of it, but I could Infer from the fight that it was totally unbalanced.
Actually, the idea of Dooku throwing the fight on the INvisible Hand is implied in the script of the movie, which supercedes the novelisation (Which is created by an independant author who does his own take on the movie events as he sees fit.)
As for Sidious, I'm undecided myself, but www.starwars.com says in either Mace's or Sidious' profile that Mace clearly won, so if you want to go with what we have as opposed to what we have not, this is what we have.
Dooku threw the fight.
Sidious lost.
There. We're settled.
You have great points, but do we not also say that Kenobi was a better fighter by using the terrain to his advantage in the Mustafar duel? I said Sidious was about equal, not better. Really, the fight could have gone either way.
I contest that Yoda threw lightning back. The stalemate that ended up deciding the fight was when both lightsabers were not being used (not sure if they were gone or deactivated) and Sidious was blasting Yoda with lightning. Both fighters were using their Force powers to the maximum, Sidious to attack and Yoda to defend. They ended up getting pushed away from each other in the ensuing shockwave, and Sidious luckily (like Kenobi) wound up with the high ground.
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I'd like to see the part of the script where it reads that Dooku threw the fight. Don't mistake me, I'll definitely believe it when and if I see it. Where would I obtain a copy?
I found mine from someone here. I think Nai Fohl maybe. You can find it if you're a good search engine wizard, and also on fileshare programs. In any case, a scene was edited from the movie (Perhaps to add to ambiguity... GL loves for people to think outside of the box) where Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Dooku. Dooku looks to the chancellor and exclaims "But you promised me amnesty!".
This heavily implies that Dooku was to lose the fight and live (Although I think Dooku did underestimate Anakin's cleverness and his anger.) Dooku was taunting Anakin heavily (Almost a direct mirror of Vader versus Luke in ROTJ) telling him to use his anger and wounding Obi-Wan, trying to make Anakin hate him even more. Notice that when Anakin and Dooku break the saberlock where Dooku is taunting him, he starts forcefully slamming into Dooku and evening pushing him back. I don't neccessarily believe Dooku was outclassed and without a way out at this time, but it's against his orders. And the move Anakin did to cut off his hands was legit and unexpected, too.
And Obi-Wan is considered a good fighter because he makes advantages where there are none and defeats people decisively who are better than himself. Sidious did not defeat Yoda decisively and was the benefactor of a good environment and fate. In the last second when Yoda absorbs and then reflects his lightning at point blank range, Sidious knew he was outclassed. But the resulting explosion was in his favor, since he could find a handhold and Yoda could not. Now both are saberless and Sidious has the high ground. It'd be suicide for Yoda to continue.
Simus, it's in there. I pointed it out a few months ago. I spent three pages illustrating points as to why the Dooku-Anakin fight was thrown. I am not gonna go over that again. It should be pretty evident. Hell, it was evident to my buddy who watched the movie with me and he isn't even a Star Wars buff.