Link vs. Sonic

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Nintendo sure knows how to create confusing timelines. Four Sword Adventures being the first game creates conflicts with OoT and Minish Cap.

Ganondorf isn't seen with it at all throughout OoT. The one Phantom Ganon uses disappears when he's beaten proving it's just a part of his creation along with his horse.

No, it's electricity in the form of a non-lightning speed orb. There's is no cutscene or proof that Link has lightning speed reactions.

''No, it's electricity in the form of a non-lightning speed orb.'' Yar.

And no ones assuming that Ganondorf was doing it to lose, only assumption is that its at lightning speed with the sole evidence being that its charge up was electric.

Also a good point;

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
We understand that it's lightning, but it's an orb, not a bolt, I don't think it wouldn't have the speed of actual lightning. It's just an electric ball Gannon throws it at you. To prove that Link can react to lightning, you would have to prove that Gannon can throw it at the speed of lightning.

Something being thrown would be at throwing speed. Lightning is, from everything that I can recall right now, shot out eg Cole. Throwing speed, nice catch guy who needs a short nickname.

EXCEPT, we know Ganon's used full speed lightning before this, there's no logical reason for him to slow it down, only an assumption based on a gameplay mechanic. That's not a valid argument. It's lightning at lightning speed. Proof or gtfo, imho. 😐 I'm tired of you guys citing nothing but a gameplay mechanic as your sole piece of evidence.

I suppose you guys think Zues' lightning travels a similar speed to a baseball because it's an "orb" like the ones Ganon uses?

Can someone post this feat plz?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
EXCEPT, we know Ganon's used full speed lightning before this, there's no logical reason for him to slow it down, only an assumption based on a gameplay mechanic. That's not a valid argument. It's lightning at lightning speed. Proof or gtfo, imho. 😐 I'm tired of you guys citing nothing but a gameplay mechanic as your sole piece of evidence.

I suppose you guys think Zues' lightning travels a similar speed to a baseball because it's an "orb" like the ones Ganon uses?

I call extreme bullshit on the whole Zeus' Lightning Bolts being 'orbs'. 😐
Not when he is the personification of Thunder/Lightning.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I call extreme bullshit on the whole Zeus' Lightning Bolts being 'orbs'. 😐
Not when he is the personification of Thunder/Lightning.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
EXCEPT, we know Ganon's used full speed lightning before this, there's no logical reason for him to slow it down, only an assumption based on a gameplay mechanic. That's not a valid argument.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's lightning at lightning speed. Proof or gtfo, imho. 😐 I'm tired of you guys citing nothing but a gameplay mechanic as your sole piece of evidence.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I suppose you guys think Zues' lightning travels a similar speed to a baseball because it's an "orb" like the ones Ganon uses?

Here ya go Neph: YouTube video 1:43

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
EXCEPT, we know Ganon's used full speed lightning before this, there's no logical reason for him to slow it down, only an assumption based on a gameplay mechanic. That's not a valid argument. It's lightning at lightning speed. Proof or gtfo, imho. 😐 I'm tired of you guys citing nothing but a gameplay mechanic as your sole piece of evidence.

We also know Flash has traveled faster than light itself. That does not mean every time he use his speed he travel faster than light. Just because he has a lightning speed attack, does not mean all his lightning based attacks move at lightning speed.

This fall into the same category as the claim that light arrows travel the speed of light. Just because they are light and travel, does not mean they travel at the speed of light. They do travel at the speed of their light since they are light, but that's not the speed of light itself. Just something consisting of light that travel.

The fact that he has done it in the past does not mean everything he does from that point forward of similar nature travel at the same speed. Even if you can prove that his former lightning attacks travel at the speed of lightning, you will still have to prove it once more if a different attack is preformed. Particularly so if the appearance of the attacks differ.

Lightning =/= Speed of Lightning. Particularly so when the attack in itself is not a bolt, but instead a ball.

Link win thisestahuh

You've said that before. Care to venture as to why or how, Winter?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dorf did? Not Ganon, not with the trident and in the same manner and way? Do doubt it and even so its not the same move as he did back then. Its a different move with a different appearance, use and properties.

You say its lightning at lightning speed then ask for proof that its not, even though there's no proof that it is. Because 'he did it before so this must be the same thing' isnt much of a case.
+He's uses lightning bolts before.
[-That do not resemble act, appear like the other (enhanced) time.]
+Its charged with electricity.
-Its only charged with electricity.
-Its thrown.
-Its an orb.
-Doesn't act like lightning.

Besides that being covered before, and in other threads. Seeing as he's used bolts and orbs in cutscenes, yeah the ones in that fight scene are not at ground-to-earth bolt speed. And yes yes he's the god of thunder but that says nothing to what or how he attacks. And just like Zeus, our battery-pack Cole can do bolts at bolt speed and orbs at thrown speed. So even if Zeus' move in question moves at lightning speed, there's no reason to compare him to Dorf as much as he can be compared to Cole.

Here ya go Neph: YouTube video 1:43

He's used lightning a million times, yes, and in weaker incarnations than this one. 🙂
Ganondorf's lightning attacks always move at full speed, unless Link needs to reflect them in gameplay, and you know the reason for this? So the player can react.
Thrown, like Yoshi's egg which can push giant bowser to the horizon? Also, irrelevent as Ganon later shows he can move fast enough to deflect the lightning. 😐
An orb? You mean the SOLE thing your ENTIRE argument hinges on, is a GAMEPLAY MECHANIC? O:! ZOMGZOR! Get something new, Zeus uses the same damn thing. You think the embodiment of lightning shoosts slow lightning when he's threatened, because that same sole gameplay mechanic holds true for both, and is no more valid in either scenario.
You realise that Ganondorf would have to willfully slow his lightning down for your argument to make any sense, yes? Which is a painfully stupid idea. Ganondorf would have to intentionally make his attack less effective, by magicly slowing down it's speed. 😐 Hm.
Behaves differently? You mean Link reflects it, which is nothing new, as Link's been doing that for years.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]We also know Flash has traveled faster than light itself. That does not mean every time he use his speed he travel faster than light. Just because he has a lightning speed attack, does not mean all his lightning based attacks move at lightning speed.

This fall into the same category as the claim that light arrows travel the speed of light. Just because they are light and travel, does not mean they travel at the speed of light. They do travel at the speed of their light since they are light, but that's not the speed of light itself. Just something consisting of light that travel.

The fact that he has done it in the past does not mean everything he does from that point forward of similar nature travel at the same speed. Even if you can prove that his former lightning attacks travel at the speed of lightning, you will still have to prove it once more if a different attack is preformed. Particularly so if the appearance of the attacks differ.

Lightning =/= Speed of Lightning. Particularly so when the attack in itself is not a bolt, but instead a ball. [/B]

Flash uses infinite mass punch, he's going extremely fast, and there's no reason other than collateral damage, which Ganondorf doesn't care about, for him to ever slow down an attack like this. The orbs v.s. bolts thing is just plain old lame copout by the opposition to this feat. 😐 It's a gameplay mechanic to allow the player to react to somethign that otherwise the player would be totally incapable of perceiving. Zeus does the exact samething in GoW. With orbs!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He's used lightning a million times, yes, and in weaker incarnations than this one. 🙂
Ganondorf's lightning attacks always move at full speed, unless Link needs to reflect them in gameplay, and you know the reason for this? So the player can react.
Thrown, like Yoshi's egg which can push giant bowser to the horizon? Also, irrelevent as Ganon later shows he can move fast enough to deflect the lightning. 😐
An orb? You mean the SOLE thing your ENTIRE argument hinges on, is a GAMEPLAY MECHANIC? O:! ZOMGZOR! Get something new, Zeus uses the same damn thing. You think the embodiment of lightning shoosts slow lightning when he's threatened, because that same sole gameplay mechanic holds true for both, and is no more valid in either scenario.
You realise that Ganondorf would have to willfully slow his lightning down for your argument to make any sense, yes? Which is a painfully stupid idea. Ganondorf would have to intentionally make his attack less effective, by magicly slowing down it's speed. 😐 Hm.
Behaves differently? You mean Link reflects it, which is nothing new, as Link's been doing that for years.

So besides this instance when else before?
They're different attacks. Cant claim its they so the player can react if they've everything about the move.

Wouldn't go to Mario-verse for good examples but whatever floats your boat. ['Sides, giant wasn't as big as claimed and the horizon really wasn't that far away :/] Wait, are you using the same move in question to justify him moving fast or is this something else that has him confirmed at lightning speed?
Yes. That's the sole thing. That's why I listed four other things around it.... >__> Speaking of sole things did you or anyone find proof for this particular move being lightning speed? Again, Zeus uses both in cutscenes. Do to bring up Cole to start the cycle again? Ok, Cole also uses both like Ganon and Zeus do. All three showing that there's a difference in speed. Zeus isn't helping Dorf here. ''So even if Zeus' move in question moves at lightning speed, there's no reason to compare him to Dorf as much as he can be compared to Cole.''

No not really, its a different attack so it has different speed etc unless proven otherwise. What and Link who shows human reactions and speed suddenly, for no reason, jumping to lightning speed is a brilliant soundproof idea? And again.. different attack, different rules.
OoT Link's been doing it for years now?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link can slow time, not freeze it altogether. Go away.

Have you ever played Phantom Hourglass start to finish? Cause if you had you would know that Link froze time completely several times in that game.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So besides this instance when else before?
They're different attacks. Cant claim its they so the player can react if they've everything about the move.

Wouldn't go to Mario-verse for good examples but whatever floats your boat. ['Sides, giant wasn't as big as claimed and the horizon really wasn't that far away :/] Wait, are you using the same move in question to justify him moving fast or is this something else that has him confirmed at lightning speed?
Yes. That's the sole thing. That's why I listed four other things around it.... >__> Speaking of sole things did you or anyone find proof for this particular move being lightning speed? Again, Zeus uses both in cutscenes. Do to bring up Cole to start the cycle again? Ok, Cole also uses both like Ganon and Zeus do. All three showing that there's a difference in speed. Zeus isn't helping Dorf here. ''So even if Zeus' move in question moves at lightning speed, there's no reason to compare him to Dorf as much as he can be compared to Cole.''

No not really, its a different attack so it has different speed etc unless proven otherwise. What and Link who shows human reactions and speed suddenly, for no reason, jumping to lightning speed is a brilliant soundproof idea? And again.. different attack, different rules.
OoT Link's been doing it for years now?

Ganon shows the full speed of his lightning in FSA, aLttP, ect, and Link reflects it in several games. Now it's a different attack? Gee, Ganondorf sure has access to a whole lot of flavours of "smite them with lightning". 😐

No. Ganondorf's lightning is faster than you claim in a weaker form, why would an amp weaken him? That makes no sense. Why would he invent a whole new attack specificly so it can be less effective than one he already had? Makes. No. Sense.

OoT is not the only instance, far from it. Also, human reaction time? lolwhat? Even without the ToC he has superhuman reactions, with it he's clearly even better.

No, it's the same attack unless you can prove Ganon has two extremely similar attacks.

facepalm So, you honestly believe Zues AND Ganondorf intentionally choose to magicly slow down their attacks? What the hell kind of logic is that? 😐 Lightning is the speed of, y'know, lightning, unless it can be shown otherwise, something no one has been able to do so far.

"It moves slower than lightning in gameplay!", emphasis mine.
"It's an orb!",

Uhuh, and how else would you shape a projectile the player needs to reflect with their sword, like a sideways Z? =| No.

Ganondorf's lightning attack has shown MANY times in MANY games it's full speed lightning, you cannot disprove the canon with gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by Clack
Have you ever played Phantom Hourglass start to finish? Cause if you had you would know that Link froze time completely several times in that game.

Zeus' lightning projectiles are always his characteristic thunderbolts and not orbs.

I don't get why he or Cole are being brought up anyway.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon shows the full speed of his lightning in FSA, aLttP, ect, and Link reflects it in several games. Now it's a different attack? Gee, Ganondorf sure has access to a whole lot of flavours of "smite them with lightning". 😐

No. Ganondorf's lightning is faster than you claim in a weaker form, why would an amp weaken him? That makes no sense. Why would he invent a whole new attack specificly so it can be less effective than one he already had? Makes. No. Sense.

OoT is not the only instance, far from it. Also, human reaction time? lolwhat? Even without the ToC he has superhuman reactions, with it he's clearly even better.

No, it's the same attack unless you can prove Ganon has two extremely similar attacks.

facepalm So, you honestly believe Zues AND Ganondorf intentionally choose to magicly slow down their attacks? What the hell kind of logic is that? 😐 Lightning is the speed of, y'know, lightning, unless it can be shown otherwise, something no one has been able to do so far.

"It moves slower than lightning in gameplay!", emphasis mine.
"It's an orb!",

Uhuh, and how else would you shape a projectile the player needs to reflect with their sword, like a sideways Z? =| No.

Ganondorf's lightning attack has shown MANY times in MANY games it's full speed lightning, you cannot disprove the canon with gameplay mechanics.

Starting the 'it don't make sense' can open up so many issues with why a character does a certain thing. No point in that. Just like 'why would Dorf, with all his power float and repeat one attack?' Ganondorf used a different attack.

Yeah human. There isn't a scene (shown here) that shows Link in OoT moving or reacting faster then the human limits. Something on this reaction is that no one accepted it as a lightning speed reaction for 12 years until someone else uses a similar move as lightning [Nemebro with Kratos I believe], someone wants thinks they can replicate it [..think that was you good sir] then it's half-blindly followed by people like its been known since day one. Sorry but I just found the Lemming mind going on somewhat interesting ^^;

''The fact that he has done it in the past does not mean everything he does from that point forward of similar nature travel at the same speed. Even if you can prove that his former lightning attacks travel at the speed of lightning, you will still have to prove it once more if a different attack is preformed. Particularly so if the appearance of the attacks differ.'' couldn't say it better.

..and back to Zeus again. On that, if Zeus' 'lightning speed' attacks are missing or blocked why does he think going up and punching him would be better. Answer? No relevance here. Now that I think about it his orbs had a larger blast range to his bolts. Actually no ones been able to prove that its moving at lightning speed besides ''It is'' 😐 electricity does not automatically equal lightning speed.

And then there's;
-That do not resemble act, appear like the other (enhanced) time.
-Its only charged with electricity.
-Its thrown.
-Doesn't act like lightning.

Don't think I've brought up its speed in a while. Perhaps like it was in past games, c'mon they're a large rich company.. if they wanted to imply lightning speed they would of made it work.

Im asking for Ganon in that game and games chronologically before in which he's in Dorf form. In the future, another time-line or in different form is not the same as this Dorf we're talking about.

''Lightning =/= Speed of Lightning. Particularly so when the attack in itself is not a bolt, but instead a ball.'' Really liked these points.

DP- Zeus, Cole and others we're brought up pages back to show how unless proven in the game it appears in, bolts=/=orbs in speed. Beats me why Zeus is still hanging about.

K, so long as we're clear that Zeus doesn't throw orbs but thunderbolts, I'm fine. 313

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon shows the full speed of his lightning in FSA, aLttP, ect, and Link reflects it in several games.

They moved fast enough to be considered useful in Master Quest and TP and they were nowhere at lightning speed. You never see Link reflecting lightning bolts at all. Stop exaggerating your favorite characters just because other fictional characters would curbstomp his ass blindfolded.

Ganondorf's lightning attack has shown MANY times in MANY games it's full speed lightning, you cannot disprove the canon with gameplay mechanics.

You fail to realize that those lightning attacks were in the form of bolts not balls.

To sum this fight up: Sonic unleashes a full-speed spin dash and reduces Link to roadkill.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Is it really that hard to get that electricity in this fiction cannot be used like this? 😐

Starting the 'it don't make sense' can open up so many issues with why a character does a certain thing. No point in that. Just like 'why would Dorf, with all his power float and repeat one attack?' Ganondorf used a different attack.

Yeah human. There isn't a scene (shown here) that shows Link in OoT moving or reacting faster then the human limits. Something on this reaction is that no one accepted it as a lightning speed reaction for 12 years until someone else uses a similar move as lightning [Nemebro with Kratos I believe], someone wants thinks they can replicate it [..think that was you good sir] then it's half-blindly followed by people like its been known since day one. Sorry but I just found the Lemming mind going on somewhat interesting ^^;

''The fact that he has done it in the past does not mean everything he does from that point forward of similar nature travel at the same speed. Even if you can prove that his former lightning attacks travel at the speed of lightning, you will still have to prove it once more if a different attack is preformed. Particularly so if the appearance of the attacks differ.'' couldn't say it better.

..and back to Zeus again. On that, if Zeus' 'lightning speed' attacks are missing or blocked why does he think going up and punching him would be better. Answer? No relevance here. Now that I think about it his orbs had a larger blast range to his bolts. Actually no ones been able to prove that its moving at lightning speed besides ''It is'' 😐 electricity does not automatically equal lightning speed.

And then there's;
-That do not resemble act, appear like the other (enhanced) time.
-Its only charged with electricity.
-Its thrown.
-Doesn't act like lightning.

Don't think I've brought up its speed in a while. Perhaps like it was in past games, c'mon they're a large rich company.. if they wanted to imply lightning speed they would of made it work.

Im asking for Ganon in that game and games chronologically before in which he's in Dorf form. In the future, another time-line or in different form is not the same as this Dorf we're talking about.

''Lightning =/= Speed of Lightning. Particularly so when the attack in itself is not a bolt, but instead a ball.'' Really liked these points.

DP- Zeus, Cole and others we're brought up pages back to show how unless proven in the game it appears in, bolts=/=orbs in speed. Beats me why Zeus is still hanging about.

Already dealt with Miria's post, quoting it, while lengthening yours isn't too useful. Lightning isn't like a person running, it's electricity.

The truth is, as much as you can theorise and suggest it might be a seperate attack that may be slower because Ganon could feel like doing something phenominally stupid, you simply have no proof. Ganon's lightning attacks have shown themselves to be full speed, you cannot refute this based on a gameplay section. Simple. No assumptions, facts.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
They moved fast enough to be considered useful in Master Quest and TP and they were nowhere at lightning speed. You never see Link reflecting lightning bolts at all. Stop exaggerating your favorite characters just because other fictional characters would curbstomp his ass blindfolded.

You fail to realize that those lightning attacks were in the form of bolts not balls.

To sum this fight up: Sonic unleashes a full-speed spin dash and reduces Link to roadkill.

You're a funny guy.